196 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

So Russ posted in the roadmap

http://mwomercs.com/...august-roadmap/

that with spectator mode that
Quote

This we hope unlocks a start to a lot more tournaments and e-sports mentality for MWO


Does any significant portion of the community even give a rats arse about this kinda crap?


Discuss folks, i'd like to hear our other feel about this e-sports mentality for MWO, than dealing with the current issues on hand. Should they really be trying to push this when so many things are in need of attention when Russ says it's a small firm, should they be wasting time on this junk so such a small % of the community would want?

Posts that go off topic shall be removed and moderated.

this is a serious topic that needs to have open dialogue. don't belittle others, but express your view.

Bascially in a nutshell is MWO ready for E-sports?

If not what needs to be done 1st?

If so what features do you think makes it worthy of E-sports.

Would an an E-sports push actually help fix the features people have concerns over?

How does an E-sports mentality help with CW?

I personally would love to see the game get to the stage where it's viable and a rewarding facet of an overall fantastic game.

1st thread on this was good but got off topic and removed, lets keep this one on topic and have a civil discussion the way forums should be, an exchange of ideas and insights, feelings have a place but your feelings can't infringe on others.

So keep it civil this time or expect to have your posts removed !

[Dirk Le Daring]

E-Sports......

This will not be popular......

Been thinking on this supposed aspect of the game, and I cannot see it ever being an E-Sport.

Why ?

When one considers a sport, usually things like football, cricket, basketball, motor racing come to mind. These are sports, just a few examples, but still sports.

There is one unifying factor with all sports. That is regulation equipment. Regulation footballs, uniforms, shoes. Cars that must fall inside certain specifications, motorcycles too, and for these, there are cc limits to classes. These same considerations must by nature be brought into the E-Sport arena.

Since in pc games min/max is what makes one l337, regulation, and therefore, a balanced even field are out the window. That's it, gone.

In order to even be considered an e-sport, or any form of sport or competition, there will need to be a regulation for mechs used. This will never happen, how many 5up3r l337 pl4y4z will ever give up every advantage they can get in order to play on a level field ? My guess is precisely ZERO.

How many would be willing to compete in stock mechs ?

Unless there is regulation equipment, there will never be a fair sporting chance.

Then there arises the question of how to oversee fairness. Unless there is something to check a players build, it will be nearly impossibru.

It would be nice, but I think a long way away, and most players, I think would not do it because they cannot run their ideal builds.

Just a few thoughts, though I could go on..........

Edit... This was a response from another thread, still counts.

Edited by Dirk Le Daring, 25 June 2015 - 02:43 AM.

[Shikata nai]

Dirk Le Daring, on 25 June 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

In order to even be considered an e-sport, or any form of sport or competition, there will need to be a regulation for mechs used. This will never happen, how many 5up3r l337 pl4y4z will ever give up every advantage they can get in order to play on a level field ? My guess is precisely ZERO.

How many would be willing to compete in stock mechs ?

This totally depends on how much money is on the line
And you totally forget that PGI is already setting a regulation by their design and balance decisions. So basically we already have a regulation that defines what competition in MWO looks like. This also works for other esports titles that are fairly succesful.
There are also already established Leagues that show specific regulations of dropdecks.

The main issue why MWO won't be big in esport is the relatively small community and thus the small audience... no big audience no esport.
However good observation tools might at least boost the competitive scene which is a good thing imho.

Edited by Lachesis Muta, 25 June 2015 - 02:54 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

The future is esports. It would be stupid not to try and get Mechwarrior as part of it. Oh and there is already a related thread and ties in with a lot of how it will help other parts of the game.

Edited by GM Patience, 25 June 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Honestly E-Sports outside of a fictional situation like Solaris is so uncool I dont know where to begin. Having played alot of sports myself anyone should go play real sports, especially if its a kid and if older it could be tennis or something smart and cool not stupid like falling off mountains or drowning in stupid badly made boats. Use a real boat or even a rowboat, those kyaks drive me up the wall they are so stupid, canoes to. If a person has money try golf, and tennis is a true duelist sport, awsome to learn to play and completely free.

Solaris could be the coolest thing though. I would like to watch a Solaris match in game if possible.

Out of game I like to watch this. 2015 world cup coming up I think.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 June 2015 - 03:24 AM.

[H I A S]

Esport is allways good for a PVP game, It is advertising.

[Alek Ituin]

I'm just opposed to E-sports as a whole... Homogenization of every aspect =/= fun.

Keep that crap to twitch-kiddie FPS games or a special, separate, Solaris arena mode.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Lachesis Muta, on 25 June 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

This totally depends on how much money is on the line

Like any 'sport' today, way too much incentive for corruption/cheating when money is involved.

Lachesis Muta, on 25 June 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

And you totally forget that PGI is already setting a regulation by their design and balance decisions. So basically we already have a regulation that defines what competition in MWO looks like. This also works for other esports titles that are fairly succesful.

Not at all. Tonnage limits do not qualify for any form of regulation for a level playing field. Mech loadout has to be a part of the rules. Think about motor racing, within classes of cars there are certain modifications allowed and prohibited, how should this be different.

Lachesis Muta, on 25 June 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

There are also already established Leagues that show specific regulations of dropdecks.

I'll bet specific builds are off the cards, like stock mechs only......

Lachesis Muta, on 25 June 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

The main issue why MWO won't be big in esport is the relatively small community and thus the small audience... no big audience no esport.

I will not deny the small player base as being an Achilles heel to this concept.

[Pjwned]

I think a game like MWO has potential to make for interesting, worthwhile e-sports entertainment, especially if there was some cool new game mode designed for it.

The game isn't in very good shape to actually be e-sports though, and considering PGI's work it's questionable if it ever will be.

[Raggedyman]

Given how much bitching and moaning goes on with the game about every little change, that ballistics/lasers/missiles are overpowered/underpowered, that doing anything in game that other people don't agree with is cheating and should be punishable by a curb-stomp, and all the other ongoing screaming, wailing, disputes that are already in this community I think that making the game more competitive and performance obsessed would be like taking a bucket of petrol and blindly throwing it on a fire then running into the fire and looking perplexed that you're on fire.

However spectator mode could be fun and will hopefully result in some cool videos.

[kesmai]

Does this spectator mode having a delay? Else who can guarantee a fair use of that tool?

[Shikata nai]

Dirk Le Daring, on 25 June 2015 - 03:24 AM, said:

Like any 'sport' today, way too much incentive for corruption/cheating when money is involved.



Not at all. Tonnage limits do not qualify for any form of regulation for a level playing field. Mech loadout has to be a part of the rules. Think about motor racing, within classes of cars there are certain modifications allowed and prohibited, how should this be different.



I'll bet specific builds are off the cards, like stock mechs only......



I will not deny the small player base as being an Achilles heel to this concept.

Just because _you_ think that mechloadout should be part of the regulation and that stockmechs should be the way to go doesn't mean that everything besides that is unregulated.
PGI does regulate the game itself and if they think it is a good idea to enable us to e.g. play a stalker with 6 Largelasers but not with 8 it is a regulation. The game itself gives us borders and regulation as football rules regulate football tournaments and leagues. Just because someone might think that goalkeepers shouldnt be allowed to use their hands means that there is no regulation
There is always regulation in any game and any sport - the question is only how restrictive the ruleset is and PGI or any other company developing a game decides how this ruleset looks like. If you don't agree to those regulations you are free to leave and not to participate but this does not mean that there is no regulation.

Edited by Lachesis Muta, 25 June 2015 - 03:52 AM.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Unless it's Solaris, I could care less about e-sports. The game needs more factional objectives and strategy, and not Mutant League Football.

[Quxudica]

It's depressing to see such biggoted responses to the concept of E-Spots. Especially for a game like this, sorry guys and gals but if you are playing and posting on a BTech games forums you are already nerds, embrace it and you will shine.

In all seriousness, the top tier Esports can be engaging to watch and demand intense levels of performance. Watching a korean StarCraft 2 pro-gamer play is mind boggling, the speed at which they are able to do things and their ability to multitask is amazing. I'm sure games like League and DOTA are just as intense (though to me those games are a lot less enjoyable to spectate).

Here's the thing though, the games that are truly thriiving for E-Sports developed into it naturally. Starcraft 2 may have been geared for MLG from the start but only because an intense proffessional scene had evolved around the original Starscraft and Broodwar. League and DOTA formed their gaming in a similar fashion, although League's devs sunk tremendous amounts of money to get it off the ground.

A lot of games have tried to jump onto the Esport bandwagon, but fail to understand you can't really force that to happen. For a game to be even slightly successful as an Esport it needs a few things:

First and foremost it absolutely has to be enjoyable to watch. The better the spectator experience the more likely it is to be viewed. Fully 3D first/3rd person games are actually more difficult to achieve this as it's more difficult to give the audience the global picture of a match - most of the time the cameraman is confined to a single players perspective. CS has managed to develop a strong tourney scene with reasonable Esport representation but few if any other fully 3D games have done so.

Additionally, part of being enjoyable to watch is being at least somewhat easy to comprehend. Many fans of pro-gamming don't play much or sometimes even any of the games they spectate, as such it's imperative a viewer be able to understand what is going on on screen with little personal experience. The basic mechanics of the game must be easy to pick up so that the audience can keep up with the action. This is partly why most MOBA's are so similar.

Next, and just as important as viewer experience, is balance. The game must be reasonably balanced, the audience must have the impression that player skill is being shown as the dominant factor in who wins and who loses - imbalanced or poorly designed mechanics that cheapen this make the matches less fun to spectate. A prime example of a huge big budget studio completely failing at this is Blizzards attempt to turn World of Warcraft's pvp Arena's (small team combat) into an E-sport. The games mechanics did not at all support the concept and the entire endeavor was a colossal failure, much derided by the playerbase.


Last but certainly not least.. actually probably the most curcial.. the game has to have interest in it. This generally means a large playerbase since, especially early on, thats going to be your core viewer demographic. The more niche the game, the lower it's visibility, the drastically lower it's chances of being a successful pro-gaming platform. Of all of MWO's problems, this is likely the truly insurmountable one. From a spectators perspective, watching teams of giant walking tanks duke it out (especially if they get around to fixing the heat system so everything isn't Alphastrike centric) could be extremely compelling and fun to watch if the game has a robust spectator mode to do so in. The games balance is a serious issue, and the mechanics would be complicated to convey easily to people only casually familiar with playing it (and casual viewers are the backbone of your audience). But the real problem is simply MWO's visibility, very few people (relatively speaking) know of or care about this game, and if people outside the playerbase know of MWO at all it's likely in a very negative light due to all the problems the game has had (and their dubious business practices).

A Mechwarrior game could be an astoundingly fun pro-gaming platform to watch, But MWO is extremely unlikely to ever be that platform.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

E-sports would be a nice addition to MWO here is why:

1) Although we have a small player base - it will give us another game mode and an end game competitve scene that is NOT group quo.
2) More than likely it will add Solaris to the game which diversifies the game. The only drawback to this is more spread out player base.
3) IF PGI goes this way (which they likely are), having Solaris and spectator mode just might add half a star to Steam ratings. This would be a good thing for MWO as it would need more players to succeed.

Now I realize none of this means E-Sport unless the player base gets on the bandwagon. But, if PGI does it right they could easily get the players involved. Have seasons and offer some nice prizes for top competitors in their weight class. Rare enough things to get people excited and involved.

[CyclonerM]

The only E-Sport that MWO needs are the fights in the several arenas of Solaris VII.

An E-Sport mentality can only hurt the game as a whole.

Anyway, i plan to use that spectator tool to record cool videos, actually.

Edited by CyclonerM, 25 June 2015 - 04:08 AM.

[TWIAFU]

When I read e-sport, I think EA, NOT MWO/PGI.

Only place I see any "e-sport" working in MWO is in Solaris.

[Quxudica]

TWIAFU, on 25 June 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

When I read e-sport, I think EA, NOT MWO/PGI.

Only place I see any "e-sport" working in MWO is in Solaris.

EA? Why on earth would you think EA? they don't even have a major e-sports title.

[Shae Starfyre]

Maybe, one day...

E3 Mechwarrior Battle Arenas; Occulus Rift, Wide Panoramic, 3D simulated Pits and your Sponsor's Logos on the chest and arms of your Mech.

I want my Jolt Cola Logo on me' Atlas.

1 on 1
4 on 4
12 on 12

Not your computers; their machines and equipment, sponsorship driven, rule driven, huge cash/equipment driven prizes.

"Oh, drat, I dropped in a pug-e-sport match....booo!" - yea, this is the dream (sarcasm).

Edited by Aphoticus, 25 June 2015 - 04:20 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Quxudica, on 25 June 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

EA? Why on earth would you think EA? they don't even have a major e-sports title.

EA = Sporting games.

You know, Madden for decades. Baseball. Basketball. Hockey. Soccer.