93 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Maugged, on 27 June 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

The first sentence was relative to the versatile multirole mech thing you talked about, the second more a general thought.

Noted.

Lights have the advantage of exceptionally high mobility and don't generally need mixed armaments to manage a multirole build. An SPL Cheetah can get where it needs to be on most any map, with a few well-known, blown-out-of-proportion exceptions. An MPL or ERML Cheetah does even better, though nobody ever seems to think of doing anything but half a dozen sipples on the thing.

And despite what the comps will frequently say, 'versatile multirole' machines aren't always horrible FrankenMechs with one of everything except the ability to win fights. My favorite 'Mech and constant example is my Cauldron-Born. Two Quack/5s, six ERML. On cold maps, Li'l Susan can lean on the lasers; on hotter ones she sticks to the autocannons and saves the beams for killshots. Close-range fights, I can hammer people with the full-monty alphabeatings until they buzz off and leave me alone; longer ranges I can heckle folks with the autocannons or irritate them with some laser pokes. The Cauldron-Born is mobile enough that if I'm at disadvantage in any given fight, I can (usually) go find a new one more to my taste.

But in a MWO where everyone gets to pick whatever 'Mech they like, free and clear, at the start of any match, cool builds like that evaporate like so much steam because Susan can't readily deal with being the only autocannons-and-lasers 'Mech on a map with twenty-three 50kph forty-tube SRM bloatboats on it, as one example. Outside of disengaging and poking ineffectually from wherever I can find whilst the bloatboats see who wins the sumo match.

Comps always want to control or eliminate as absolutely many variables as they can, because to them anything that isn't rigidly defined, predictable, and able to be accounted for is a detractant to The Almighty Skill. In some circumstances, they're right - in this one, I don't believe they are. Uncertainty in map selection, and the resulting uncertainty in your opponents' make-up for the match, shakes things up in a way a lot of less-comp players find highly desirable.

I mean, c'mon. Does anyone here really, truly want to play nothing but a 50kph SRM-overloaded assault on River City ever again?

[Aiden Skye]

This is the first thing you've ever said that I feltlike agreeing with. But of course we all know you don't give **** anyway. Would be great if we could even just switch variants. Why on earth would I bring my ERPPC's on TT when I have other variants fully equipped and ready to drop that are better suited for the map. Of course this could be open to some heavy abuse and thats why we can't have nice things.

[Dirus Nigh]

I hate the idea of people swapping mechs before a match. You need to learn how to adapt to the map and work with what you have. If you could chose your mech we would just have the exact same mechs specific maps all the time.

[Sader325]

Dirus Nigh, on 27 June 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

I hate the idea of people swapping mechs before a match. You need to learn how to adapt to the map and work with what you have. If you could chose your mech we would just have the exact same mechs specific maps all the time.

I've already learned how to "adapt to the map and work with what I have."

I wish people would stop spewing this statement as if its difficult. Fact is, I'm usually far better adapted to any given map than most people unless I'm specifically running brawlers. This isn't difficult, because everyones running the same handicap.

Fact is I'm not interested in fighting people with suboptimal mechs for the map we're on because more often than not I'm the one with the advantage.

I'm asking for more difficulty by giving people the choice to bring the best mech they can, you all seem afraid of it for some reason. Does competition bother you that much?

[1453 R]

Sader325, on 27 June 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

I've already learned how to "adapt to the map and work with what I have."

I wish people would stop spewing this statement as if its difficult. Fact is, I'm usually far better adapted to any given map than most people unless I'm specifically running brawlers. This isn't difficult, because everyones running the same handicap.

Fact is I'm not interested in fighting people with suboptimal mechs for the map we're on because more often than not I'm the one with the advantage.

I'm asking for more difficulty by giving people the choice to bring the best mech they can, you all seem afraid of it for some reason. Does competition bother you that much?

Buzz up and check above posts, man.

I'm not 'afraid of competition'. I'm 'not in favor of seeing the exact same 'Mechs on any given map 100% of the time said map is played'.

I know ultracomps are already better at adapting and whatever they feel like than the average player, because they're ultracomps and they do things like that. But if you knew exactly what the enemy team would be fielding Every. Single. Time. River City came up as the match map, because River City has precisely and exactly ONE acceptable 'Mech and you know the entire enemy team will be using it...does that really strike you as being better for MWO than eliminating any variance in matches whatsoever?

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Dirus Nigh, on 27 June 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

If you could chose your mech we would just have the exact same mechs specific maps all the time.

If I saw polar highlands was the next map. These are some of the builds I might use.

-ECM sniper or brawler
-Something that can boat 2 or 3 AMS.
-Boat ER large lasers to kill LRM boats from outside 1,000 m.
-LRM boat to counter LRM.
-Boat AC2's to counter LRM outside 1,000 m.
-Boat ER PPC's.
-ECM light with NARC.
-ECM light with TAG.

I think the same goes for every map. No matter what map it was, there would be a lot of different builds I would consider using.

People say only 1 build would be used for each map?

What is the 1 build people would use on polar highlands?

Edited by I Zeratul I, 27 June 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Ryllen Kriel]

I've been wanting this forever. You should be able to have a drop list of mechs for quick play matches. No winning military force in history likely ever went into battle without carefully considering the battlefield and their equipment...unless they were ambushed and somehow got lucky.

[Clydewinder]

Sader325, on 26 June 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

If I see polar highlands and I'm in an Ebon Jaguar, I should be able to switch to a hellbringer, or any other 65 ton mech I own if I feel like it.

The idea mech pilots are dropped blind with no info on whether their loadout is good for a mission or not is pretty asinine honestly. Soldiers don't get randomly dropped into desert missions with winter camo, they always have a general idea of where they are going and what they will encounter when they get there.

Likewise, as a soldier I'll probably know whether I was going to be dropped into Mordor or Polar Highlands and would fit my mech appropriately.

Does that mean people will be able to bring more optimized builds for each map? Yes, which in turn means people will play better and matches will be more difficult. Personally I find more challenge to be a good thing.

Anyway, this change will never happen obviously, but I still wish it would.

Should be able to switch to any other variant of the same chassis

[1453 R]

I Zeratul I, on 27 June 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

If I saw polar highlands was the next map. These are some of the builds I might use.

-ECM sniper or brawler
-Something that can boat 2 or 3 AMS.
-Boat ER large lasers to kill LRM boats from outside 1,000 m.
-LRM boat to counter LRM.
-Boat AC2's to counter LRM outside 1,000 m.
-Boat ER PPC's.
-ECM light with NARC.
-ECM light with TAG.

I think the same goes for every map. No matter what map it was, there would be a lot of different builds I would consider using.

People say only 1 build would be used for each map?

What is the 1 build people would use on polar highlands?

Particularly telling is that every single thing on your list is built to either defeat or augment LRMs. You're trying to be all rebellious and say "See? There's tons of stuff to do!" but even with your list up there, you're making the assumption that given their free choice of 'Mechs, anyone seeing Polar Highlands would drop with an LRM boat.

As for 'The One Build' on Polar Highlands? The Comps will tell you its quad cERLL ECM Hellbringer, most likely. I believe that's still the preferred/required sniper fit for cold maps? Regardless, whatever the preferred sniper fit for cold maps is, anyone not running that build on Polar gets to earn mountains of scheiss from the other twenty-three players on his team. Unless he's lower-tier, in which case he could MAYBE get away with LRMs.

Until the 'rebels' bring their ECM sniperlaser Hellbringers, anyways.

[Barantor]

Sader325, on 27 June 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

There is not a single map in the game that encourages "mixed loadouts". Such a thing doesn't exist.

For many of us this is one of the problems that keep us from playing the game regularly. It has irked me in this one even more than MW4 because of the lack of sized hardpoints.

There is already too much 'uniformity' in certain mech builds that it makes the ability to modify the mech kinda meh. Some builds have become such the 'defacto' build that they should just sell the mech like that.

I don't really see the difference in playing mechwarrior over any other FPS where you can choose between a handful of classes sometimes. There is no lore to this game, no story, no reason to really be part of a faction.

Choosing your loadout after map selection would just homogenize a game that seems desperate to homogenize itself even more....

[Requiemking]

I Zeratul I, on 27 June 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

If I saw polar highlands was the next map. These are some of the builds I might use.

-ECM sniper or brawler
-Something that can boat 2 or 3 AMS.
-Boat ER large lasers to kill LRM boats from outside 1,000 m.
-LRM boat to counter LRM.
-Boat AC2's to counter LRM outside 1,000 m.
-Boat ER PPC's.
-ECM light with NARC.
-ECM light with TAG.

I think the same goes for every map. No matter what map it was, there would be a lot of different builds I would consider using.

People say only 1 build would be used for each map?

What is the 1 build people would use on polar highlands?

Pretty sure this is just me being crazy, but I would happily run this on the LRMlands.

Firebird MK.2

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

1453 R, on 27 June 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

Particularly telling is that every single thing on your list is built to either defeat or augment LRMs. You're trying to be all rebellious and say "See? There's tons of stuff to do!" but even with your list up there, you're making the assumption that given their free choice of 'Mechs, anyone seeing Polar Highlands would drop with an LRM boat.

As for 'The One Build' on Polar Highlands? The Comps will tell you its quad cERLL ECM Hellbringer, most likely. I believe that's still the preferred/required sniper fit for cold maps? Regardless, whatever the preferred sniper fit for cold maps is, anyone not running that build on Polar gets to earn mountains of scheiss from the other twenty-three players on his team. Unless he's lower-tier, in which case he could MAYBE get away with LRMs.

Until the 'rebels' bring their ECM sniperlaser Hellbringers, anyways.

Hm. Should have added.

-Stalker S with dual AMS and LPL's/laser vomit.
-Nova S with triple AMS boating SPL's.
-And similar brawler builds with AMS or ECM.

Brawlers and short range mechs might be viable on polar with enough ECM/AMS.

It doesn't have to be a long range poke fest like it normally is. With mech selection it might open the door to brawlers being viable on maps like alpine and polar. It could increase the amount of role warfare in the game.

[Dirus Nigh]

I Zeratul I, on 27 June 2016 - 03:41 PM, said:

Hm. Should have added.

-Stalker S with dual AMS and LPL's/laser vomit.
-Nova S with triple AMS boating SPL's.
-And similar brawler builds with AMS or ECM.

Brawlers and short range mechs might be viable on polar with enough ECM/AMS.

It doesn't have to be a long range poke fest like it normally is. With mech selection it might open the door to brawlers being viable on maps like alpine and polar. It could increase the amount of role warfare in the game.

That is just out right wrong. You damn well know if we could chose the mech before we drop hardly any one will chose a short range brawler for alpine or polar highlands.

You all want to have a better game and play better, then try learning how to adapt to the terrain with the mech you drop with.

[NoiseCrypt]

Give each mech loadout A(default) and B. After map/mode voting you get to select which loadout (A or B ) you want to use for that drop.

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 28 June 2016 - 01:24 AM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Sader325, on 27 June 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

I've already learned how to "adapt to the map and work with what I have."

I wish people would stop spewing this statement as if its difficult. Fact is, I'm usually far better adapted to any given map than most people unless I'm specifically running brawlers. This isn't difficult, because everyones running the same handicap.

Fact is I'm not interested in fighting people with suboptimal mechs for the map we're on because more often than not I'm the one with the advantage.

I'm asking for more difficulty by giving people the choice to bring the best mech they can, you all seem afraid of it for some reason. Does competition bother you that much?

If I was afraid of competition or difficulty then why am I giving an opposed view point to the OP? I know that I may drop on terra therma if I chose to use a mech that runs hot. I know that I could drop on river city if I use a mech with LRMs. I know that I could drop on polar highlands when using my HBK 4G. Using these mechs that are sub optimal for the maps they drop on only increases the challenge. Adapting to that is what will make me better. I dont want MWO to turn into a game where every one will use the same handful of mechs on every map all the time. It's bad enough we get to vote for the map.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

Personally I like the idea of choosing the chassis then after the map and mode is selected you can choose the variant you want to use. That way it encourages investment in purchasing and keeping Mechs rather than only using variants to unlock the elite skills.

[Tarogato]

I think allowing people to change their mech would make this game worse.

The problem right now is that most of the maps favour mid to long range, so everybody just boats mid to long range. Some of the most interesting matches are when people bring brawly mechs to Alpine or Polar and they make it work. Giving them to choice to have switched to long range instead means those matches would have been a lot more boring.

Plus, it just reinforces boating, which is one of the things about this game that is the most disappointing. We need more maps in the game that encourage brawling (full downtown urban cityblocks map plz?), so that bringing mid/long range into the voting screen is just as risky of a proposition as bringing full brawl builds. If it's risky enough, more people might bracket build - the build diversity would go through the roof and matches would be a LOT more interesting overall. But if you encourage people to boat for specific engagement range by allowing them to switch according to the map, then more of the matches would play out the same and TTK would be lower because the builds are more efficient for getting the job done overall.

[adamts01]

Tarogato, on 28 June 2016 - 02:37 AM, said:

I think allowing people to change their mech would make this game worse.

The problem right now is that most of the maps favour mid to long range, so everybody just boats mid to long range. Some of the most interesting matches are when people bring brawly mechs to Alpine or Polar and they make it work. Giving them to choice to have switched to long range instead means those matches would have been a lot more boring.

Plus, it just reinforces boating, which is one of the things about this game that is the most disappointing. We need more maps in the game that encourage brawling (full downtown urban cityblocks map plz?), so that bringing mid/long range into the voting screen is just as risky of a proposition as bringing full brawl builds. If it's risky enough, more people might bracket build - the build diversity would go through the roof and matches would be a LOT more interesting overall. But if you encourage people to boat for specific engagement range by allowing them to switch according to the map, then more of the matches would play out the same and TTK would be lower because the builds are more efficient for getting the job done overall.

^ ^ ^ ^

Awesome duel in the Locusts on Crimson by the way. I saw your 1v in my 1e and thought you'd be easy pickings. I really hate to say it but you probably would have CTd me if my team didn't get in the way.

[Tarogato]

adamts01, on 28 June 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

^ ^ ^ ^

Awesome duel in the Locusts on Crimson by the way. I saw your 1v in my 1e and thought you'd be easy pickings. I really hate to say it but you probably would have CTd me if my team didn't get in the way.

Oh that was you? hehehe. Man, I was feeling the pressure, I knew the Kodiak was coming around the corner and then I saw the Phoenix Hawk looming in the distance, I had to keep kiting away from them to stand a chance at getting the kill on you, but it was too much man, just too much. haha

Cheers. =]

[Stone Wall]

With LRMs gimped, no gyro overloads, and no coolant flush, 3rd person view we might as well be able to switch mechs.