98 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner commented that PGI seems to not know what they really want MWO to be or they're not sticking to their decision.

So that presents the question, where should PGI take MWO?

[Bishop Steiner]

While I would have preferred the game they sold to the founders...that ship sailed long ago.

I'd pretty well accept ANY direction, even bloody Esports, if they just actually stuck to their guns and focused on it.

[Alistair Winter]

MWO has no clear direction because there aren't enough Mechwarrior fans or MWO players to pick a clear direction.

Every time PGI surprises me and does exactly what I want them to do, I am flabbergasted as half the community screams with outrage.

• I ask for big maps with many options for maneuvers. The community complains that MWO is a walking simulator.
  
• I ask for a few maps where sniping is a viable tactic. The community complains that there's hardly any brawling in MWO.
  
• I ask for information warfare. The community complains that PGI is robbing them of doritos and taking away features.
  
• I ask for role warfare, synergy and equality among weight classes. The community complains that light mechs are too OP and assault mechs should cut through light mechs like paper.
  
• I ask for Solaris. The community complains that esports deathmatch is boring and a waste of resources.

PGI doesn't know what the community wants, and I don't blame them. Every time PGI does something I agree with, the forums explode with outrage. I'm feeling more and more alienated by the community, and I wonder if it's partially because a lot of the people who wanted the same things as me have already moved on to other games. I don't want to over-simplify the situation though. Taste is a really complex thing when it comes to reviving old computer game series and adapting them to a new format (MMO PVP)

TL;DR - It would probably have been much easier for PGI if they just took a game like MW2:Mercs and decided to make a 2013-version of that game. Then people would have had very simple and predictable expectations. On the other hand, the game would never have been even 1/10th as popular, probably.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 June 2016 - 04:28 PM.

[MechWarrior319348]

It is what it is brah. I stopped barkin up this tree a while ago.

[Triordinant]

I believe the only sustainable direction is the one that served all the previous Mechwarrior titles well. PGI (or whoever has the IP) should crowdfund Mechwarrior 5.

[Alistair Winter]

Triordinant, on 26 June 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

I believe the only sustainable direction is the one that served all the previous Mechwarrior titles well. PGI (or whoever has the IP) should crowdfund Mechwarrior 5.

Now that would be interesting. Of course, a lot of people have lost faith. But it can't possibly turn out worse than Transverse.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

MWO has no clear direction because there aren't enough Mechwarrior fans or MWO players to pick a clear direction.

Every time PGI surprises me and does exactly what I want them to do, I am flabbergasted as half the community screams with outrage.

• I ask for big maps with many options for maneuvers. The community complains that MWO is a walking simulator.
  
• I ask for a few maps where sniping is a viable tactic. The community complains that there's hardly any brawling in MWO.
  
• I ask for information warfare. The community complains that PGI is robbing them of doritos and taking away features.
  
• I ask for role warfare, synergy and equality among weight classes. The community complains that light mechs are too OP and assault mechs should cut through light mechs like paper.
  
• I ask for Solaris. The community complains that esports deathmatch is boring and a waste of resources.

PGI doesn't know what the community wants, and I don't blame them. Every time PGI does something I agree with, the forums explode with outrage. I'm feeling more and more alienated by the community, and I wonder if it's partially because a lot of the people who wanted the same things as me have already moved on to other games. I don't want to over-simplify the situation though. Taste is a really complex thing when it comes to reviving old computer game series and adapting them to a new format (MMO PVP)


TL;DR - It would probably have been much easier for PGI if they just took a game like MW2:Mercs and decided to make a 2013-version of that game. Then people would have had very simple and predictable expectations. On the other hand, the game would never have been even 1/10th as popular, probably.

Game design ain't a Democracy. And that is why PGI's floundering. You have a vision, and with minor changes for input, you stick to it, and either it sinks, or it swims. PGI is too worried about what a fractious fanbase wants when the reality is, and has been proven through many iterations.... for the most part, whatever grumbling we do, we'll play it.

You can't please everyone, and by trying all you do is ensure everyone is equally unhappy.

Pick a direction. Go with it, stick with it,, and if there's quality to it, the players will follow.

[LordKnightFandragon]

TheArisen, on 26 June 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Bishop Steiner commented that PGI seems to not know what they really want MWO to be or they're not sticking to their decision.

So that presents the question, where should PGI take MWO?

PVE Storyline driven campaigns. Use the current FW global map to determine how the storyline plays out. Let us each pick our faction, no Mercs, none of that "changing faction" stuff. Then, as we play our PVE battles, the map changes back and forth. Keep the PVP one the same and let the random Q remain.

[KahnWongFuChung]

MWO has no clear direction because there aren't enough Mechwarrior fans or MWO players to pick a clear direction.

There were plenty of good BT and MechWarrior fans in Closed beta that tried to help Russ and PGI direct MWO to a new MechWarrio5 game type only to be placed on a island or banned for there contributions to the game. I'm sorry I personally have no faith left in Russ or PGI they only now listen to there butttt buddies at NGNG and a few ********** FP faction leaders they still play FP with.

They should have made MWO PVE with all the MW2-MW4 missions and expansion missions first then a Multiplayer like we had in MechWarrior4 with a Social lobby system and private leagues then sold there mech packs and goodies and it would have worked out much better and retained players better overall.

Edited by KahnWongFuChung, 26 June 2016 - 04:43 PM.

[Moldur]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 June 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

While I would have preferred the game they sold to the founders...that ship sailed long ago.

I'd pretty well accept ANY direction, even bloody Esports, if they just actually stuck to their guns and focused on it.

I agree. In fact, I remember a line of comments many moons ago that boiled down to the exact same thing, which is PGI having a lack of direction.

PGI needs to figure out what they want to do, and have enough conviction and pride in their own product to try and achieve that vision because they believe in their own capabilities rather than meandering and going "oh, you uh, don't want OP jumpjets? [3 months later] Ok. Did we do that right? You don't want OP Gauss? [3 months later] did we do that right?" ad infinitum.


From my perspective, PGI has been very reactive as opposed to proactive in their development of MWO. PGI has spent years listening to whoever yells loudest, spending months at a time to pass balance patches that do not really make the game better so much as different, or favor one school of thought slightly more than another rather than having their own vision for the game. Even when they grant people's wishes, it's usually in the same fashion as a tongue-in-cheek genie.

We might not get the Mechwarrior game of our dreams, but at least we might get a good game.

Edited by Moldur, 26 June 2016 - 04:46 PM.

[FalconerGray]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

TL;DR - It would probably have been much easier for PGI if they just took a game like MW2:Mercs and decided to make a 2013-version of that game. Then people would have had very simple and predictable expectations. On the other hand, the game would never have been even 1/10th as popular, probably.

This is exactly what I imagined it would be like when the very first announcements and discussions were made. And yes, maybe wouldn't have been as popular outright, but I'd easily say it would have had a far more dedicated, appreciative and satisfied userbase than what we have now, and surely that has to count for something.

Bishop Steiner, on 26 June 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Game design ain't a Democracy. And that is why PGI's floundering. You have a vision, and with minor changes for input, you stick to it, and either it sinks, or it swims. PGI is too worried about what a fractious fanbase wants when the reality is, and has been proven through many iterations.... for the most part, whatever grumbling we do, we'll play it.

You can't please everyone, and by trying all you do is ensure everyone is equally unhappy.

Pick a direction. Go with it, stick with it,, and if there's quality to it, the players will follow.

This.

[Accused]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

MWO has no clear direction because there aren't enough Mechwarrior fans or MWO players to pick a clear direction.

Every time PGI surprises me and does exactly what I want them to do, I am flabbergasted as half the community screams with outrage.

Everything you listed I wanted as well. PGI however cannot translate those ideas into a working cohesive whole.

We ask for larger maps where scouting and sniping are important but they have no map designers, we ask for info warfare and mech balancing yet they do not test it on the test server, we ask for Solaris and they give us e-sports.

I'm sorry, but this is Games Workshop level of getting things done.

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 June 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

While I would have preferred the game they sold to the founders...that ship sailed long ago.

Well, if need be, this pirate will hijack that ship.

[Alistair Winter]

Accused, on 26 June 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but this is Games Workshop level of getting things done.

[EasyPickings]

I think that PGI should look at updating their engine - Cryengine - to the latest version - 5 - to accommodate more realistic effects and enhanced features without adding too much overhead. The problem is getting everything ported over.

Once they've got the technical base squared away they will have time to focus on additional features without being hobbled by an outdated engine.

[Trauglodyte]

TheArisen, on 26 June 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Bishop Steiner commented that PGI seems to not know what they really want MWO to be or they're not sticking to their decision.

So that presents the question, where should PGI take MWO?

The direction that the game is going is fine. It just feels like they're not moving it there. I said it in the other thread:

• MW:O needs to be a Total War game. Faction Warfare needs to be Inner Sphere vs. Clan and each and every planet needs to hold something important to the players. Why am I attacking this planet? If there isn't a reason, I'm not going to do it. Playing FW so that I have 4 lives with the point of killing 3 generators that power a giant gun is crap for a reason to go take a planet. The planet doesn't do anything for me. Why does planet A look like planet B which can all be seen in Quick Play? If MW:O wants their game to be something, they need to take a look at what drove Dark Age of Camelot to great heights years ago. Take this game and build it upon that model and we're cooking with gas!

Edited by Trauglodyte, 26 June 2016 - 04:58 PM.

[Mystere]

KahnWongFuChung, on 26 June 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

MWO has no clear direction because there aren't enough Mechwarrior fans or MWO players to pick a clear direction.

There were plenty of good BT and MechWarrior fans in Closed beta that tried to help Russ and PGI direct MWO to a new MechWarrio5 game type only to be placed on a island or banned for there contributions to the game. I'm sorry I personally have no faith left in Russ or PGI they only now listen to there butttt buddies at NGNG and a few ********** FP faction leaders they still play FP with.

They should have made MWO PVE with all the MW2-MW4 missions and expansion missions first then a Multiplayer like we had in MechWarrior4 with a Social lobby system and private leagues then sold there mech packs and goodies and it would have worked out much better and retained players better overall.

Nope. I find that so 20th Century. That would have been fine in a 56K modem-driven world.

Inner Sphere campaign scale and player-driven PvP is what I am most interested in for a Mechwarrior game. PGI just had to muck up that opportunity.

[Wintersdark]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

TL;DR - It would probably have been much easier for PGI if they just took a game like MW2:Mercs and decided to make a 2013-version of that game. Then people would have had very simple and predictable expectations. On the other hand, the game would never have been even 1/10th as popular, probably.

that's what they tried to do first, but nobody wanted to fund it, so we got MWO.

[LordNothing]

i dont really see a direction other than maintain the current state of development. that is modes, maps, and mechs. id throw in tech as well which hasn't really been explored much since the clan invasion. grandiose concepts like fp seem to be rather fruitless, doing more or less the same thing with solaris might be a bad idea, i would just add solaris type modes to qp add a leaderboard (planned) and be done with it.

i see a lot of self duplication on pgi's part. they are trying to come up with a formula that works on everything, but simply by trying to do that you end up making the game dull and lifeless because there is no variety. for example the main problem with invasion is that the maps are mostly interchangeable and dont play differently from eachother. was it really neccisary to do the same thing half a dozen times? you could save fp by reworking the maps to make them have more variety, what if every invasion map had different mission objectives and different layouts? it would feel more war like if there was some variety there.

now you see these map remakes, our brawl++ maps like frozen city turned into camp++ maps. nothing against frozen city, it does some good things (it makes good use of vertical space for example). i like the big open maps but come on they shouldn't all be like that. they really need to start a more themed approach to map design, decide from the get go how the map should play out and then design around that concept. for each new map try a different theme. they also need more variety in the environments as well. if i see one more snow map im gonna puke.

you can do a lot with the introduction of new tech (weapons + equipment). a lot of bang for the development cost, and with acceptable paths of monetization (pay or grind/wait) would pretty much fund itself. it would certainly make me spend weeks just trying out new loadouts on my back inventory of mechs that mostly sit around doing nothing.

[Wintersdark]

Really, I hate it when people talk "direction", because everyone (gross over generalisation not pointed at anyone in particular here) seems to always use it like all their imagined directions are one and the same.

They're all different. Everybody'spreferred direction is different. As Alister said above, that's been PGI's problem. They pick a direction, meet tons of resistance, then choose another.

Its easy to say PGI should just pick a direction and go, but there's a very real chance that their player base is small enough as it stands that they just can't afford to chase a lot of users away, and that often looks like it's a very real danger with any "direction".

I feel bad for them, honestly.