59 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 27 June 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Clan ATM's would be great, but PGI would need to get a handle on ammo switching first

It would be nice to have ammo-switching, but not essential since ATMs use different ammo all together than SRMs/LRMs. They aren't superfluous like MMLs are without ammo-switching.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 June 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

It would be nice to have ammo-switching, but not essential since ATMs use different ammo all together than SRMs/LRMs. They aren't superfluous like MMLs are without ammo-switching.

ATM's have:

Standard, LRM like range but 2dmg/missile
ER, really long range but 1dmg/missile
HE, SRM like range but 3dmg/missile

Being able to switch on the fly is what made the ATM launchers such a big deal, even more so with the iATM's that the Society used in the wars of reeving.

[M3 SABLE]

I always thought the weapon choice was super small. However, what this game really needs are some awesome maps with awesome game modes. So far I don't even feel like I am a part of a mech lance that is supposed to be all tactical and ****, and work as a team.

I am just a player model that looks like a robot, running around in a death match arena.
And no, FW does not help at all.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 June 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

MRMs won't be added anytime soon, unless they go the MW4 route and treated missiles in packets, SRM hit reg can be off sometimes, now imagine throwing even more missiles to be calculated and see how hit reg fairs, not to mention the potential to lag the game (I've seen it happen with mass missiles in the current game).

SRM's are already in groups of 2 and LRM's for IS are in groups of 3 and 2 (just go have someone fire LRM's before arming range for the IS and watch the missiles bounce off of whatever they are hitting in clusters). So MRM's would work just fine up to 20's, it is the 30's and 40's that would get nutty, and probably make brawls go sub 1fps for some people.

I am all in favor of getting new weapons, though, it has been said Arrow IV's sill never happen (just like mech portable Long Toms). ATM's are a technical impossibility due to ammo switching isn't possible at this time (due to black magic is still being researched, I mean programming). Heavy Lasers and RAC's would have to have building screenshake for the more you fire/longer you fire to compensate for how devastating they can be.

Area of Denial weapons would be great, and being able to launch LRM's at areas would be fun too due to it gives larger LRM's more use, as it is, anything over a 5 or 10 is laughable.

However, I am still waiting on those AMS rewards.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 27 June 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

ATM's have:

Standard, LRM like range but 2dmg/missile
ER, really long range but 1dmg/missile
HE, SRM like range but 3dmg/missile

Standard actually have 6 hexes less than LRMs, they are similar to IS Large Lasers and AC10s with regards to their range (brackets are different though), but they also have minimum range for whatever silly reason.
HEs are what Clan mechs would be really after because eventually these are what you would hope to use in this game, next being standards.

The reason ammo-switching isn't that big of a deal for ATMs is because of how powerful HE and Standard ammo are which allow you to specialize around them. Remember, this is MWO, not TT, bracket builds aren't a selling point in this game, so the ability to switch ammo for different ranges isn't really that great.

Moonlight Grimoire, on 27 June 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

SRM's are already in groups of 2 and LRM's for IS are in groups of 3 and 2

What, this is dependent on the mech, SRMs will fire all 24 on a mech like the Griffin, just like the LRM60 Mauler will fire all 60 at once. Now imagine a mech with 3 MRM40s, that is a lot of projectiles to calculate, an unnecessary amount actually. Even if they are somewhat clustered in the flight path, each individual missile is calculated for collision.

Moonlight Grimoire, on 27 June 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

ATM's are a technical impossibility due to ammo switching isn't possible at this time (due to black magic is still being researched, I mean programming).

I think you mean not probable, as ATMs could be added now in a similar vein to the LBX/Standard ACs for Clans.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 June 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[SilentWolff]

Garfuncle, on 26 June 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

WE DESPERATELY NEED NEW WEAPONS DEVELOPERS

Fixed that for ya.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 June 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

Standard actually have 6 hexes less than LRMs, they are similar to IS Large Lasers and AC10s with regards to their range (brackets are different though), but they also have minimum range for whatever silly reason.
HEs are what Clan mechs would be really after because eventually these are what you would hope to use in this game, next being standards.

The reason ammo-switching isn't that big of a deal for ATMs is because of how powerful HE and Standard ammo are which allow you to specialize around them. Remember, this is MWO, not TT, bracket builds aren't a selling point in this game, so the ability to switch ammo for different ranges isn't really that great.


What, this is dependent on the mech, SRMs will fire all 24 on a mech like the Griffin, just like the LRM60 Mauler will fire all 60 at once. Now imagine a mech with 3 MRM40s, that is a lot of projectiles to calculate, an unnecessary amount actually. Even if they are somewhat clustered in the flight path, each individual missile is calculated for collision.


I think you mean not probable, as ATMs could be added now in a similar vein to the LBX/Standard ACs for Clans.

Okay fair points about the ATM and SRM. What I meant though with the LRM's is that the actual model used (at least with LRM10's and higher for IS) is that they are modeled in groups to reduce how many objects the server has to keep track of, and I am pretty certain the same is true with SRM's but in groups of 2 (I would have to go test that) but with their numbers so small might be each missile on it's own. I would see that MRM's would be 2's and 3's just due to otherwise whenever someone fires off an MRM40 hit reg would have issues as well as anyone seeing that wall of missiles would have their systems chug just like they do when an enemy team decides to rain on them with 3-4 LRM boats.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 27 June 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

Okay fair points about the ATM and SRM. What I meant though with the LRM's is that the actual model used (at least with LRM10's and higher for IS) is that they are modeled in groups to reduce how many objects the server has to keep track of

I'm pretty sure this is false, the reason you may see groups of LRMs collide together is because of poor world/terrain hitboxes, not because they are actually grouped together. SRMs definitely do not fly in groups of 2 either, as an SRM from an SRM2 can only do 2 damage.

[wanderer]

Quote

The reason ammo-switching isn't that big of a deal for ATMs is because of how powerful HE and Standard ammo are which allow you to specialize around them. Remember, this is MWO, not TT, bracket builds aren't a selling point in this game, so the ability to switch ammo for different ranges isn't really that great.

Consider your average Streakcrow.

Now replace those with ATM6's. Enjoy your 30-missiles of 3 damage each, being able to hit with SRM damage out to 450 damage, or just putting super-ALRM30 (ATMs have automatic Artemis) downrange. Alternatively, just put two ATM 12's on and with actual functionality, you can make anyone suck it with rockets.

Unless PGI, of course.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

wanderer, on 27 June 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Consider your average Streakcrow.

Ironically, in a certain MW4 mod, the ATM(M/HE)30 was one of the strongest Stormcrow builds, granted they fudged the ranges to make them different than SRMs.

[Deathlike]

Coolant, on 27 June 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

+1 for new weapons. PGI proved they can make new weapons when the Clans came out. They have the experience.

Most of the guys involved with that don't work at PGI anymore.

I mean, they couldn't do ammo switching with LBX, and that would actually require effort by PGI to get it working correctly.

Ammo switching is not a CryEngine limitation, it's a PGI "limitation" (you need to understand your own code to make this work).

[fat4eyes]

Making MRMs have a decent blast radius would be interesting and would differentiate it from SRMs and LRMs. It would be like portable short range artillery. You could do interesting stuff like blanket a chokepoint with MRMs to suppress an enemy, or fire at the ground to break up tight enemy groups (or leg light mechs). It would also discourage use at short range because you can blow yourself up.

[IdolElite]

I would like to see new variants on the current weapons, basically quirks. You could label them as being manufactured by different lore based companies and could really spice up mech customization.

There's a few weapons I'd like to see added too, especially on the IS side. Just advance the timeline to like 3058.

[Trauglodyte]

Garfuncle, on 26 June 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

There are only so many ways to build mechs on so many chassis with the same allotment of weapons. No matter how many new mech packs appear it only blurs more mech build archetypes together. We need new weapons to keep things fresh, and right now things are pretty stale. The fear of "This will break the game!" isn't very compelling when compared to the fact how same-ish builds have become. This would breathe much needed life into all the mechs in the game as it would create a flurry of new build opportunities.

Missing IS ultras, lbx and streaks...I don't think these are so difficult to ask for and balance.

Heavy lasers for clans with more damage but far longer burn times and considerable heat...could be interesting.

Etc. Is this too much to ask for? Is the community that jaded that it can't trust PGI to try to keep this game fresh?

I'd like the IS equivalents to the Clan weapons. But, I want to change something that you stated: Additional weapons won't change how mechs are built. The problem is that we don't have enough multi-weapon type mechs in the game. The Phoenix mechs were the right addition because you had a bunch that combined all three weapon types. Even then, though, players eliminated one of the three and pushed towards two. The path to least resistance won't change with new weapons. It'll just create a new weapon meta which will then lead to us wanting even more weapons.

I'll take weapon balance for $1000 first, Alex.

[Ted Wayz]

I would take variants of current weapons so I can imagine we are playing in a vast universe.

[MauttyKoray]

AnTi90d, on 26 June 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

Also, light gauss, heavy gauss and silver bullet gauss (lbx gauss, basically.)

Also, inferno SRMs, Arrow missiles, thunderbolt missiles, ATM missiles

Also RAC (rapid AC.) I think RAC is the thing I hear requested the most.

Whoa hold on there, lots of weapons to fill in for IS first for balance reasons, ER Med/Small, UACs, SSRMs, etc.

Plus our current weapons still aren't even balanced cause they keep throwing darts to make decisions with huge swings in weapon stats instead of minor tweaks.

Also, RACs are Rotary AutoCannons if I remember correctly. Basically the UAC should (and sort of is) be able to fire faster than an AC at the cost of extra heat and a chance to jam that compounds the number of times you fire it before letting it cooldown. The RACs in extension would further fire faster and thus this heat and jam chance compound even faster, and would be much easier to overheat/jam.

[April Showers]

Just add Swarm Missiles.

My 60 LRM Warhawk will love those, and i am sure so will you *evilgrin*

[cazidin]

We don't need new weapons. We need PGI to fix/balance what we got.

[wanderer]

Quote

Making MRMs have a decent blast radius would be interesting

Missiles used to have splash. Given PGI, that got ugly fast as small targets often would end up getting hit multiple times by the same missile once HSR came along, causing lights to basically evaporate when struck. Heck, that was one of the lurmageddon-by-bugs.

[Escef]

wanderer, on 28 June 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Missiles used to have splash. Given PGI, that got ugly fast as small targets often would end up getting hit multiple times by the same missile once HSR came along, causing lights to basically evaporate when struck. Heck, that was one of the lurmageddon-by-bugs.

HSR had nothing to do with, missile splash was removed long before HSR.