53 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

MWO is one big experiment in nonverbal group communication.

Edited by Moldur, 28 June 2016 - 08:04 AM.

[jper4]

since I pretty much never play assaults my thought pattern to break nascar usually goes
1) hit Q to find out where the assault lance is
2) run to the assault lance
3) hope that by the time I get there the lance hasn;t split into four direction and stay with the biggest clump.

I do notice at least in a lance- if someone immediately heads off at top speed in a given direction (and aren't shot in the back by said lancemates in doing so) there is a good chance that at least one of the other mechs will follow you.

[meteorol]

The vast majority of players in MWO just nascars because of "monkey see, monkey do".

You can't expect people to understand they shouldn't do something in a particular situation when they don't even know why they are doing it in all other situations.

Edited by meteorol, 28 June 2016 - 09:01 AM.

[BigBenn]

The "NASCAR'd" phenomenon is inevitable in most cases, or the "meet in the middle" is the other option. But the O/P is correct, TURN AROUND AND ENGAGE!!!

I think the biggest factor in winning/losing so many of the matches I've been in has been the presence or lack of communication. So few people use vox. I try to help, I call out enemy positions, scold assault mechs for lingering in the rear or trying to take the loooong way around to flank, etc. I do all I can do to help allied players make better engagement decisions. However, in many cases the players I'm talking to do not understand English, do not hear me, are new enough to not know any better, or out right ignore me/don't give an F so off they do on their lone wolf crusade.

The more teams communicate, talk, and support each other the more often they win.

[CygnusX7]

Usually only lasts 2 laps and the race is almost over.. or it's time to pit.

[Marmon Rzohr]

meteorol, on 28 June 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

The vast majority of players in MWO just nascars because of "monkey see, monkey do".

You can't expect people to understand they shouldn't do something in a particular situation when they don't even know why they are doing it in all other situations.

Exactly. It's fairly unfortunate that a lot of players obviously don't think about the match at all. They just sort of do their own thing blindly and if works, it works. I find it sad that "a good team" in solo q is one that does the most basic stuff you possibly can like stick together and use a hugely obvious and advantageous position. What is common sense in many games is rocket science in MWO.

As far as NASCAR goes...

The Origins:

Spoiler

NASCAR became widspread somewhere in the late IS age when big XL engines, poptarting and the Victor were king. The idea was to use the superior speed of your heavy and assault mechs to pressure a slower enemy force and keep attacking as they tried to run, inevitably picking them apart. As you can see this only worked as long as you has the bulk of your firepower on the front of the NASCAR, constantly attacking - which is why the Victor worked so well - not only did it carry a lot of firepower for the time, it could also poptart over cover and shoot, meaning it was hard to hide or run from the push.

Then came the Clans, who simply took this idea and pumped it to 11. Timber Wolves and Stormcrows were the new spearhead mechs and could execute the same tactic even better, with more or comparable firepower, being more durable and much faster. If you had mostly Clan mechs in a PUG and the enemy had mostly IS mechs which were so much slower, initiating a NASCAR would usually crush your enemy as they simply couldn't keep up.

That's where all of this came from... and still persists today, although for slightly misguided reasons.

NASCAR today:

Let me start by saying that in most situations NASCAR is NOT a good idea. Should you NASCAR in a PUG, you are most likely making the outcome of the match very dependent on how well the pilots on your team can handle high pressure and how fast they can destroy enemy mechs. Knowing how the matchmaker works this will make the outcome of that particular match very random. This is because TTK in the current meta is so low that matches snowball incredibly fast, sometimes before you can even have a chance to really affect them.

Good tactics in this game involve keeping as many guns as possible firing as much as possible on the fewest possible enemy mechs - with the best possible cover to reduce incoming damage, if possible.

Having this in mind NASCAR will help you only if:

• The enemy is spilt and you are confident you can start moving away from one part of the enemy force and toward the other and you can eliminate it before the enemy chasing you has a chance to properly engage.
  
• Your team is predominantly brawlers and you know you can push and stay in close range of the enemy team while one part of their force tries to chase you and lags behind your formation. In this situation you need to be confident in your skill and the superior DPS of your brawlers who will, given the right circumstances, chew their way up the enemy conga line very quickly and hopefully the match will already be decided by the time the enemy leading mechs have a chance to engage. (this version can be most commonly seen on HPG Manifold where you will often see teams spread out along their side of the tower only for one side to get pushed fast by brawlers and die while their team is still relocating or trying to push across the tower top to initiate their half of the NASCAR, usually leading to landslide defeat for the slow team)

As you can see, since most teams deathball and most drop decks are mixed, NASCAR usually is far from ideal. Reading where the bulk of the enemy team is going and using an appropriate position to attack them or defend against them yields far more consistent results. Especially since this is very effective against teams that try to NASCAR improperly as they will often lead their conga-line into you a couple of mechs at a time, giving you the advantage.

However, if you see your team NASCAR-ing despite your efforts it's usually a good idea to join them and try to kill things so you stay ahead rather than try to die holding down a position you can't realistically defend against 5 other mechs.

TL;DR

NASCAR is only good for exploiting enemy mistakes or advantages in your drop deck. Not much else. DON'T DO IT, takes very good judgement to be an effective not a 50/50 strat or landslide loss.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 28 June 2016 - 10:45 AM.

[Lykaon]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 27 June 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Turning INTO a nascar rotation can yield good results.

On some maps where cutting across the center of a circling NASCAR manuver yields the best results.

Caustic Valley is a good example of a map that allows for the cross cut to work.

Essentially you wheel around like a standard NASCAR do about a 3/4 lap or however long it takes to drag out the enemy mechs into a line. You should now have your slowest mechs in your rear and fastest in the the front with the enemy fastest mechs about to contact your slowest.

You should now take your faster mechs right across the cauldera into the enemy flank and wheel towards your assault mechs pinching the enemy's faster units between you and leaving the enemy's slowest mechs out on a wing and not in the immediate combat.
For added finesse you could take an agile light mech to turn the enemy assault mechs away from their current direction of travel to delay them further.

[Piney II]

For PUGs, all of the strategy sessions will not overcome the herd mentality. You will be ignored.

Unless you want to go lone wolf, take your chances, and possibly talk some team mates into your move, following the herd is the best way to live.

Real humans are so fickle.

Edited by Piney, 28 June 2016 - 12:53 PM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

NASCARing is caused by pure selfishness. The faster mechs always start it because they know they can catch some poor slow shmuck in the backfield who likewise got left by their team's faster mechs. They don't give a shite that they got other teammates killed, as long as they get their cheap kill for the match. They don't care that a circling contest is won by the team with the fastest mechs, that it's a 50/50 chance that your team is the slower one, and that those are terrible odds. They don't care that even if they get some kills, their team will often get wiped out from behind and they will be hunted down and ripped to pieces in the end and lose anyway. Because they got their kills, damnit! Those stupid assault mechs shouldn't be so slow! That Dire Wolf you left to be torn to bits should have just broken the game physics and hurried his arse up!

It's all just selfish kill-greed at the expense of the rest of their team. Anyone who tries to tell you it's tactical is full of bull. You can't tell who the faster team will be in a circling match, so your just guessing at best whether what you are doing will work or not. Either way, the slower mechs on both teams get shafted. Either way, you want those cheap kills, so screw everyone else and playing to win!

That's what NASCAR play is. Turn around, fight with your team, and watch those slow, "worthless" assault mechs tank damage and smash apart the greedy group of arseholes that thought they would go off and get cheap kills at the expense of everyone else. I guarantee you will win more matches and still have plenty of wounded enemy mechs to finish off so you can get those kills you want.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 28 June 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 27 June 2016 - 09:28 PM, said:

The second my allies start following me when I'm in my flight, positioning to get a good sight line on the enemy.

Seriously folks it's follow the fracking atlas, not follow the fracking lolcust.

Tell that to the damn Banshee pilot that was using my Phoenix Hawk as a shield this morning.

If custom Dekkels ever become a thing I'm working on one that is something like

Daddy has a shot gun, if you don't want to marry me, don't stand so %&*^@# close.

[Volthorne]

Cathy, on 28 June 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Tell that to the damn Banshee pilot that was using my Phoenix Hawk as a shield this morning.

If custom Dekkels ever become a thing I'm working on one that is something like

Daddy has a shot gun, if you don't want to marry me, don't stand so %&*^@# close.

How about one that goes "If you can read this, either you shouldn't be following me or I'm about to die"

[White Bear 84]

adamts01, on 27 June 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

If your tail is mixing it up with enemy assaults, you've been out NASCARed. Turn around and engage.

And for heaven's sake, if half your team is in a brawl, please don't use that opportunity to break contact and start a NASCAR.

I understand it's a valid tactic, but damn, use that thing between your ears.

All I have to say on nascar..




But seriously.. ..one way to avoid nascar is lo and behold.. ..call it off! Last night, several times on frozen city called the team to set up ambush rather than cycle round and swap sides - we knew the team would nascar right into us. They did. And it was brutal, but we won.

[MischiefSC]

Situational awareness is about knowing where your team is, not just the enemy.

In the first segment of the game your primary objective should be getting to the front of the pack or close to.

Being the guy lurking in the back is why you lose.

You don't have to be out in front but you need to be in the immediate area of whoever is. Good positioning is a combo of cover, control of range and ensuring that if an enemy can shoot you he's taking fire from the rest of your team. You rarely want to be the only guy poking or cresting.

A good NASCAR is a team effort. Having 2 or 3 people in a good position slow the enemy while the rest of you destroy them in detail is a solid pug strat. Wins pay more than losses, if you're the guy in the back embrace your fate, die a good death and sell yourself dearly. Dying while you run away, cursing your team is undignified and helps nobody.

Don't like it, play group queue.

[Karl Marlow]

You end the NASCAR the very second you realise it is going on. Turn around and set up a firing.line and laugh as the fools run strait into your wall single file.