17 replies to this topic

[Dogstar]

I think that PGI have done the rescale right and that mechs should be consistent in size vs volume.

Some mechs seem to have come out better or worse and people are asking for quirk changes to fix that.

However I think there is another option: ask PGI to remodel those mechs instead.

e.g. Many people feel that he Grasshopper is too all now so it could be remodelled with fatter limbs and body and thus a reduced height all while keeping the same volume. Or add a 'jetpack' to it's back to suck up some of the volume, there's lots of ways to fix the model.

PGI have done a superb job of making a ton of really good looking mechs so I'm sure they could remodel the furthest outliers and actually improve them in the process

[STEF_]

Alex is a miracleman.

But Volume has to do with balance too, and the sad thing is they need months of datas because they cannot foresee this.... despite a lot of players were calling it and despite they perfectly know what to do and do not need suggestions.
You wrote about hoppers.

35 tonners are screwed up.
Lolcusts are a joke.

PXH was a bad joke (and last mech I bought without seeing model and quirks)

[M3 SABLE]

I dunno what is up with people. Being slim is far far more beneficial, despite the height.

To me personally, grasshopper and PHX are the bane of my existence. They just passively dodge the shots due their slim structure, that on any other mech would have been a guaranteed hit.

While catapult, direwolf, and battlemaster are just as killable as before, due to their fat, wide structures, taking up more space horizontally regardless.

The only mechs that got dramatically hurt with the rescale are jenners (and they deserved it) and executioners (weak mechs that needed a buff instead).


As for the models, it is just too expensive and time consuming thing to ask it seems. Though some mechs are in a desperate need of it.

[Aiden Skye]

You do realize a remodel can end up being a nerf or buff right...What heresy is this?

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

PXH was a bad joke (and last mech I bought without seeing model and quirks)

PHX seems plenty nasty enough. Especially when you compare them to the other 45 ton mechs. Tall thin mechs are a pain in the azz to hit with projectile weapons from range when they are moving laterally as 99% of the time convergence will screw you. Remember back in the day when there were no quirks?

Edited by W A R K H A N, 29 June 2016 - 01:08 AM.

[TexAce]

You have no idea of all the steps that need to be done to "just remodel" a mech.

[STEF_]

M3 SABLE, on 29 June 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

I dunno what is up with people. Being slim is far far more beneficial, despite the height.

To me personally, grasshopper and PHX are the bane of my existence. They just passively dodge the shots due their slim structure

dunno man.
From shoulder to shoulder it's not slim at all.
Also, gigantic arms pop up in a blink (the only weapon location and with sucky quirks)

Maybe you find ppl how cannot aim, or do not know where to aim.
Good for you, then

W A R K H A N, on 29 June 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:

PHX seems plenty nasty enough. Especially when you compare them to the other 45 ton mechs.

Even the cda is better.....


You both know what? You need to take a look at DATAS.
Read the PXH leaderboard and then repeat pxh is good

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 29 June 2016 - 01:22 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Dogstar, on 28 June 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

I think that PGI have done the rescale right and that mechs should be consistent in size vs volume.

Some mechs seem to have come out better or worse and people are asking for quirk changes to fix that.

However I think there is another option: ask PGI to remodel those mechs instead.

e.g. Many people feel that he Grasshopper is too all now so it could be remodelled with fatter limbs and body and thus a reduced height all while keeping the same volume. Or add a 'jetpack' to it's back to suck up some of the volume, there's lots of ways to fix the model.

PGI have done a superb job of making a ton of really good looking mechs so I'm sure they could remodel the furthest outliers and actually improve them in the process

Lore is kind aLore, you can't remodel too much. Scaling is exactly what ti is about,

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

dunno man.
From shoulder to shoulder it's not slim at all.
Also, gigantic arms pop up in a blink (the only weapon location and with sucky quirks)

Maybe you find ppl how cannot aim, or do not know where to aim.
Good for you, then


Even the cda is better.....


You both know what? You need to take a look at DATAS.
Read the PXH leaderboard and then repeat pxh is good

popoing arms are better than popping torsi, and yes welcome to the world of MLX and and other arm hardpoint only mechs.
The only way to make these mechs better would be redeignign their hardpoints and add soem of them to the ST/CT but not sure if this would be too much lore violation.

However yes the PHX has soem issues, yet I think scale is fine. it is now time to just quirk some problematic parts with some HP as the arms.

on the other side, this leaderboard does not show the usual "leaderboard members" So i guess most of the usually good palyers haven't even bought the PHX.

Edited by Lily from animove, 29 June 2016 - 01:39 AM.

[Impyrium]

Of course remodeling every problem mech would be the best fix and would solve many of the problems people have with scaling. But there's a reason they didn't just do that for every single extreme case the first time around- it's a hellavu lot of work.

[STEF_]

Lily from animove, on 29 June 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

Lore is kind aLore, you can't remodel too much. Scaling is exactly what ti is about,



popoing arms are better than popping torsi, and yes welcome to the world of MLX and and other arm hardpoint only mechs.
The only way to make these mechs better would be redeignign their hardpoints and add soem of them to the ST/CT but not sure if this would be too much lore violation.

However yes the PHX has soem issues, yet I think scale is fine. it is now time to just quirk some problematic parts with some HP as the arms.

on the other side, this leaderboard does not show the usual "leaderboard members" So i guess most of the usually good palyers haven't even bought the PHX.

Trebbies have +16 struct. quirks on arms.
AND they can have weapons in torsi too.

So, I assume pgi was thinking it were too much OP-ness for the PXH to give it those quirks too.


I noted too there weren't the usual leaderboarders.
So....we can think when whales buy a pack, they must make it good enough, while if they don't buy it, pgi doesn't give a $h1t..... maybe.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 29 June 2016 - 02:07 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Lily from animove, on 29 June 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

Lore is kind aLore, you can't remodel too much. Scaling is exactly what ti is about,



popoing arms are better than popping torsi, and yes welcome to the world of MLX and and other arm hardpoint only mechs.
The only way to make these mechs better would be redeignign their hardpoints and add soem of them to the ST/CT but not sure if this would be too much lore violation.

However yes the PHX has soem issues, yet I think scale is fine. it is now time to just quirk some problematic parts with some HP as the arms.

on the other side, this leaderboard does not show the usual "leaderboard members" So i guess most of the usually good palyers haven't even bought the PHX.

Hi Lily

with this in Mind , only the Locust and Catapult ,before the Rescale the most Mechs (commando and many Lights ok) to tall , now many very to tall -Lore -3025 the Tallest Mech =Atlas with 16m , now the most Assaults 18m and more, Heavys like the Black Knight now 16m

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 29 June 2016 - 02:11 AM.

[Dogstar]

Regarding the lore don't forget that it was written based on not to scale drawings of mechs and without any attempt to scale the mechs against each other with regards to volume. As we've seen when they're mathematically rescaled things change quite a bit.

That's part of the change required to move from board game to computer game so everyone should be able to look back at the lore and take it with a pinch of salt.

[Tordin]

M3 SABLE, on 29 June 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

I dunno what is up with people. Being slim is far far more beneficial, despite the height.

To me personally, grasshopper and PHX are the bane of my existence. They just passively dodge the shots due their slim structure, that on any other mech would have been a guaranteed hit.

While catapult, direwolf, and battlemaster are just as killable as before, due to their fat, wide structures, taking up more space horizontally regardless.

The only mechs that got dramatically hurt with the rescale are jenners (and they deserved it) and executioners (weak mechs that needed a buff instead).


As for the models, it is just too expensive and time consuming thing to ask it seems. Though some mechs are in a desperate need of it.

Thats why I like the PHX no matter its so called "flaws"

[Bishop Steiner]

Dogstar, on 28 June 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

I think that PGI have done the rescale right and that mechs should be consistent in size vs volume.

Some mechs seem to have come out better or worse and people are asking for quirk changes to fix that.

However I think there is another option: ask PGI to remodel those mechs instead.

e.g. Many people feel that he Grasshopper is too all now so it could be remodelled with fatter limbs and body and thus a reduced height all while keeping the same volume. Or add a 'jetpack' to it's back to suck up some of the volume, there's lots of ways to fix the model.

PGI have done a superb job of making a ton of really good looking mechs so I'm sure they could remodel the furthest outliers and actually improve them in the process

Simple.

Remodel takes time and money, and a decent chunk.

Nerf/Buff takes 30 seconds to adjust values in an xml file.

That is why we don't get remodels.

[Revis Volek]

One is about 1000X more work the then other.


I dont think you understand what you are asking for. Just to remodel one based on previous time tables its like a month of work if not more.


Quirks can happen over night. Also remodeling is admitting you messed up the first time. Most companies wont do that once to begin with, let along multiple times.

Edited by Revis Volek, 29 June 2016 - 08:53 AM.

[1453 R]

Remodeling an existing 'Mech is just as expensive as creating a new 'Mech entirely, in terms of development resources used, without the benefit of new-'Mech sales.

Frankly I'm still surprised we got the Catapult remodeled. Do not expect the same luxury for any other machine in the game. The global rescale alone was more zero-dollar work than most companies would kick out for this sort of problem. Sad but unfortunately true.

[Moldur]

In PPFLD builds, I've cursed at all those missed shots on tall slender mechs. Ah yes, 30 damage. Right. Under. The. Armpit. woosh.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 29 June 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

Remodeling an existing 'Mech is just as expensive as creating a new 'Mech entirely, in terms of development resources used, without the benefit of new-'Mech sales.

Frankly I'm still surprised we got the Catapult remodeled. Do not expect the same luxury for any other machine in the game. The global rescale alone was more zero-dollar work than most companies would kick out for this sort of problem. Sad but unfortunately true.

Well, there is a reason they sold the ButterBee, to defray that remodel.

They could have done the same with the DRG by introducing Grand Dragons and a new Hero with, possibly...though it's so moribund a chassis, maybe not.

If the basic game were better thought out though, most of these models would be more viable.

Battletech was never desgined around precision pinpoint aim. And for those who say "It's Mechwarrior, bro, not Battletech".....

Can't have one without the other. If you want to stick to 3/4 of the TT values as guidelines...then throw out the things that make those values actually WORK...... (heat effects and aiming difficulty) you get the mess we call MWO.

[Hit the Deck]

Adding to what some posters above have said regarding the expense of remodeling 'Mechs..., what Russ said in the last Town Hall suggests that the artists might refuse to do that (for example, imagine that Alex thinks that his works/drawings are masterpieces and not to be changed!). Though we do have minor remodels already.