46 replies to this topic

[Morticia Mellian]

What is with the matches today? Out of like 20 matches, I am part of like 2-3 wins. Trying to coordinate or no, usually tactical group fails like spread apart too much, sticking to one corner, not pushing when there is openings.... May be just bad luck today, or maybe there are lot more focus on factional play because of the event? Anyway, frustrating as hell. Fraks over the tier rating, simply because of losses. Does not help or encourage team play what so ever. Anyway... /rant.

[JediPanther]

Usa has 4th of july monday. Many people are taking three day weekend for family and parties. I work most of it so it's not a big deal to me. Low tiers under two always have poor team work. Some times you get the rare group that does manage to work together but more often than not it is every mech for itself in solo play.

[Lukoi Banacek]

OP - only common denominator in those 20 matches is you. Just thought you should consider that.

Additionally, it's a giveaway weekend, and it's a long weekend for many people, so lots of more casual types playing (and weekends tend to be heavier anyway), so alot more people who are generally less tactically inclined or try-hard, as they are jumping on to have some fun and win some pixel-swag.

Wouldn't take it so hard.

[Navid A1]

Lukoi Banacek, on 02 July 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

OP - only common denominator in those 20 matches is you. Just thought you should consider that.

This cliche does not apply with the way MM works.

[Morticia Mellian]

JediPanther, on 02 July 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

Low tiers under two always have poor team work. Some times you get the rare group that does manage to work together but more often than not it is every mech for itself in solo play.

I am stuck at Tier 5 thanks to large percentage of mastering grinding last year. Really complete other rant regarding the new Tier ranking system, valuing win/loss more than anything else despite not always having a say on your team composition.

Lukoi Banacek, on 02 July 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

OP - only common denominator in those 20 matches is you.

I am well aware of that. Even there, only so much can do to help coordinate and make a difference while focusing on Locusts lately. At least I can say I have achieved 200+ match scores on average for those 20 matches.

[El Bandito]

Morticia Mellian, on 02 July 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

I am stuck at Tier 5 thanks to large percentage of mastering grinding last year. Really complete other rant regarding the new Tier ranking system, valuing win/loss more than anything else despite not always having a say on your team composition.

I am well aware of that. Even there, only so much can do to help coordinate and make a difference while focusing on Locusts lately. At least I can say I have achieved 200+ match scores on average for those 20 matches.

If you are stuck at T5, you really have no right to complain about MM. I tend to think that it takes special kind of person to stay in easy-mode T5 land for so long. Also, valuing win/loss has always been common in other MP only games.

Finally, tilting happens in all games. Having 10-20% win ratio is something I know personally while playing League. I don't make a big deal about it in the forums, however.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2016 - 08:54 PM.

[jjm1]

I want a Mad Dog, but the clan pug teams seem to be full of players that expend all four mechs for a total damage score you would be ashamed of in a scouting mission.

I'm 6 out of 10 wins and close to just going back to quick play for the randomised skill spread.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Navid A1, on 02 July 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

This cliche does not apply with the way MM works.

It absolutely does apply.

When I go on a losing streak, no matter how much I want to rant at the world and blame others, I pause a minute, reflect on where I'm getting sloppy and adjust. Seems to work just fine.

If you lose 17 of 20 matches, it's not just the MM.

[Mycrus]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

If you are stuck at T5, you really have no right to complain about MM. I tend to think that it takes special kind of person to stay in easy-mode T5 land for so long. Also, valuing win/loss has always been common in other MP only games.

Finally, tilting happens in all games. Having 10-20% win ratio is something I know personally while playing League. I don't make a big deal about it in the forums, however.

Seeing that my 10 year old kid is high T4... T5 really does say something...

[badaa]

events bring out the stupid players and cw events r just bad and u mix those together and u get a **** storm

[Mole]

Lukoi Banacek, on 02 July 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

OP - only common denominator in those 20 matches is you. Just thought you should consider that.

I've always hated this logic because of how intrinsically flawed it is. One 'mech simply can not mean the difference between victory and defeat that consistently, no matter how bad the player is. Even if he were just going AFK or disco at the beginning of every match his team could still easily win without him. I think back on how many matches I've won where one or more mechs on my team were disco and the enemy team had all 12 players present. The logic that "You are causing all 11 other players on your team to lose because you suck" is quite frankly rubbish and I question the intelligence of anyone who can not see the flaw in that logic.

[smokytehbear]

Morticia Mellian, on 02 July 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

I am stuck at Tier 5 thanks to large percentage of mastering grinding last year. Really complete other rant regarding the new Tier ranking system, valuing win/loss more than anything else despite not always having a say on your team composition.

I'm curious. Please explain how despite losing 17/20 matches, by your own admission, means that you should be going up in tier?

The only thing that matters is a win/loss. If you're doing things that contribute to winning more often than those that do not, given a large enough sample size, you will undoubtedly have a higher win count than loss count. Because there's so many other players, it may take a while, but it will show eventually. This idea that I should still be matched with better players despite losing consistently, because I'm doing "other" helpful things like lots of damage, kills, or what have you, is complete BS.

It's a real shame PGI and their match score algorithms seem to agree with you.

[crashlogic]

I sort of have the impression that MWO is more about team work than other MP games, it certainly is more team oriented the battlefront or CoD, MoH, or WoT(at least in my experience). You can be an awesome player and if your team scatters, you are screwed no matter how good your mech is, especially if the other team stays together and concentrates fire-a solo mech's life expectancy is nil. on the other hand you can be pretty bad and play in a well coordinated group that stays together and you will win more than you lose. In this game you win lose and kill as a team.
I have always thought PSR overrates win/loss and underrates the individual achievements like KMDD, brawling, hit and run, etc. I think these awards better reflect pilot skill and team work. At the very least I thin win/loss should be far less heavily weighted. Its silly that i can have a match score of 120 and go up, but have a match score of 300 and go down.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Lukoi Banacek, on 02 July 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

OP - only common denominator in those 20 matches is you. Just thought you should consider that.

Well that and the fact that he was paired with 11 random individuals of unknown skill and unknown desire to work as a team by a computer program attempting to force a 50/50 chance of winning.

[crashlogic]

smokytehbear, on 02 July 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

If you're doing things that contribute to winning more often than those that do not, given a large enough sample size, you will undoubtedly have a higher win count than loss count. Because there's so many other players, it may take a while, but it will show eventually.

There are three kinds of lies according to Disraeli: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. Sample size is a property of the last. You can to a lot for the team and go down, and you can do next to nothing for the team and go up. What you actually do as a player often bears very little on winning a losing. Players are carried all the time, or the other team scatters. Don't even get me started on teams that lose because they ignore the game mode rules. The logic of the game is team oriented, the failure of PSR is that its an individual system.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

smokytehbear, on 02 July 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

I'm curious. Please explain how despite losing 17/20 matches, by your own admission, means that you should be going up in tier?

The only thing that matters is a win/loss.

Wrong, I got up on a loss all the time.

What ACTUALLY matters is match score.....

You keep that up and win / loss is completely irrelevant.

If it's low all the time, win / loss once again becomes completely irrelevent.

If neither one happens, you're probably close to the right place.

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 02 July 2016 - 11:04 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 02 July 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

Well that and the fact that he was paired with 11 random individuals of unknown skill and unknown desire to work as a team by a computer program attempting to force a 50/50 chance of winning.

Except the match maker doesn't force, or even try for any forced chance of winning or a specific ratio, it never did. The roughly equal odds of winning (often misstated as a 50/50 match maker) went out the window with the elo system. A perfect match of like skilled opponents in the elo system means that each are just as likely to win because it's a relative skill system or zero sum skill- any skill points won are directly taken from the loser. Thus perfect matches each person or team has an equal chance of winning since they are matched in skill.

PSR is no such system, its not relative skill based it is experience based and has no mathematical basis to predict the odds so there is no basis of equal matches to come out to be even odds of winning/losing.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 02 July 2016 - 11:16 PM.

[El Bandito]

Mole, on 02 July 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

I've always hated this logic because of how intrinsically flawed it is. One 'mech simply can not mean the difference between victory and defeat that consistently, no matter how bad the player is. Even if he were just going AFK or disco at the beginning of every match his team could still easily win without him. I think back on how many matches I've won where one or more mechs on my team were disco and the enemy team had all 12 players present. The logic that "You are causing all 11 other players on your team to lose because you suck" is quite frankly rubbish and I question the intelligence of anyone who can not see the flaw in that logic.

Apparently you do not realize just how snowbally this game is.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

EgoSlayer, on 02 July 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

Except the match maker doesn't force, or even try for any forced chance of winning or a specific ratio, it never did.

cool story?

EgoSlayer, on 02 July 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

PSR is no such system, its not relative skill based it is experience based and has no mathematical basis to predict the odds so there is no basis of equal matches to come out to be even odds of winning/losing.

Except for that tiny thing called match score.... yeah other than that.

[Isolani]

If you keep running into the same players in Quick Play, especially if you are losing a lot, wait a couple minutes before joining the queue. Everybody gets out of their last game then jumps into line for the next one, if you do that too, you will see a lot of the same players over and over again...which isn't good if they are beating you.

Of course, it's not a bad thing when you are on the winning side of those streaks, you're hoping to get the same teams again.