52 replies to this topic

[Kali Rinpoche]

Sign me up for the remove LT silliness. Its way overpowered. Worse than I remember. LT took out almost 18 mechs. I'm a PGI supporter but this is just broken and comically sad.

I've got no problem with Crows. The issue is IS pickup groups are a mixed bag. You get stuck with a Locust and Commando and your toast. In a premade 4 man IS group you load up Cents, hunch, an Griffons and eat Streakcrows for lunch. Shadowcats and Bazillion small laser Novas give me more problems.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 08 July 2016 - 07:32 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Pat Kell, on 08 July 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

Sorry, I hate scouting matches as I work best in a team. I suck at dueling and small engagments which is what scouting basically is. Also, I wasn't trying to white night for storm crows at all, I was just pointing out that there are some things that the IS have going for it and they just have to use them. In pug vs pug though, streak crows are king and will stay that way until the tonnage cap is lowered or streaks are nerfed. And yes, the need to aim makes the gap a huge issue, I understand that. It's why I do about 6-700 damage in a direct fire mech on average and about 1k in a streak dog. However, I try to guess when the best time to bring out the streak dog is because if I bring it up against IS heavies and assaults, I can pound those things for a long time and not even break the armor. Hell, Oxides take 3 full alphas from my streak dogs all the time before finally dropping. So while I understand your request, it won't be happening as I have piloted IS mechs before and I just don't do well in them.

Fair enough - the point though isn't so much how you play but how the IS pugs play against them. Legging Scrows works fine for about 25% of the games population - the rest can't do so consistently.

There's several underlying balance issues in scouting and IS/Clan balance. Streaks are the worst of it. If a weapon requires aim and some skill it's less of an issue but still.

It's why I don't like Scouting being such a big factor in invasion. I have no expectation of those issues being fixed at any foreseeable point. Better to just have it be another mode that people enjoy playing, not a critical piece of taking a world.

[Pat Kell]

MischiefSC, on 08 July 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

Fair enough - the point though isn't so much how you play but how the IS pugs play against them. Legging Scrows works fine for about 25% of the games population - the rest can't do so consistently.

There's several underlying balance issues in scouting and IS/Clan balance. Streaks are the worst of it. If a weapon requires aim and some skill it's less of an issue but still.

It's why I don't like Scouting being such a big factor in invasion. I have no expectation of those issues being fixed at any foreseeable point. Better to just have it be another mode that people enjoy playing, not a critical piece of taking a world.

LOL, dang it... I posted that thread before I had time to think and went back and rewrote it. Still, I am rarely in favor of shooting legs as I have a hard enough time shoot atlas legs let alone crow legs. I almost always aim center mass and maybe favor left or right if I notice it's damaged. I agree that scouting to get long tom is just beyond silly. I am fine with it having some impact but it shouldn't be game breaking. And I also think that things could be changed a little bit to further balance things especially with streaks. However I want to caution them to do these changes incrementally as we all know that PGI can sometimes swing for the fences when it comes to balancing attempts. I felt like this latest quick change was much better as the changes were much smaller than the traditional changes we have all come to know and hate , at least some of the changes.

But yea...get rid of long tom and stop putting mechanics in the game that empty planets.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I'd really like to see them reduce LT use to approximately 3-4 uses per match at most (i.e. one per wave, perhaps with the first wave not being impacted). Set them at standardized times to add some tension, especially at the end where a close match could get shaken up by the LT's final salvo. Consider them like prepatory or scheduled fires, but regardless the "every 2 minutes" variable or what ever it is, is entirely too often. And relook radius/damage. Not sure if purely reducing either is the right answer.

LT should have an impact. It should add tension. It should be worth going through all of those damned scouting matches to attain. But it shouldn't be game-breaking and server-emptying, which it certainly is currently.

[Pat Kell]

Lukoi Banacek, on 08 July 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'd really like to see them reduce LT use to approximately 3-4 uses per match at most (i.e. one per wave, perhaps with the first wave not being impacted). Set them at standardized times to add some tension, especially at the end where a close match could get shaken up by the LT's final salvo. Consider them like prepatory or scheduled fires, but regardless the "every 2 minutes" variable or what ever it is, is entirely too often. And relook radius/damage. Not sure if purely reducing either is the right answer.

LT should have an impact. It should add tension. It should be worth going through all of those damned scouting matches to attain. But it shouldn't be game-breaking and server-emptying, which it certainly is currently.

Any long tom that can kill any 35 ton mech on up that is undamaged is too powerful imo. If they leave it in, they need to drastically reduce the damage to the level of a current arty/air strike or at least close to it. I am fine with every 2 mins or whatever is decided as the damage will be minimal and won't straight up break the wave. People will be at a disadvantage but not so much that it's nearly insurmountable. People can still use lights to try to get it to drop and cause friendly fire conditions if they want but there shouldn't be a game decided mechanic in a game other than skill and mech choices/loadouts. Anything beyond this is akin to watching a movie and having minimal participation. Just avoid big packs of mechs and watch as they die.

Edited by Pat Kell, 08 July 2016 - 08:44 PM.

[Danjo San]

Starwulfe, on 08 July 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

IS mediums can do fine without XLs and still maintain a decent speed.
For example, here's a build I saw a 4-man running that was very effective against scrows that uses a STD..
Please forgive me as I don't know the exact load out, just what I saw on the battlefield and I filled in the gaps.
I just threw it together quickly in the mechlab so I'm sure it can be improved upon.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f7fab1f04e7a2dc

Moves 87, gets much closer before streaks can fire and unless all four of the enemy has an active probe, you can lock down the scrows.

In my oppinion 87 is way too slow, as it might do fine on a smaller map such as caustic, it is lost on polar or frozen. If you have protect intel, try chasing down the enemies, while they realize they can outrun you.... 87, what does the Trial Crow run? with the Lasers and that speed it is easy to stay out of range of the SRMs.
I tweaked my GRFn to go 100, and it still is hard chasing down the last Cheeter that is running from you.

Still, keep in mind that we are talking about the entire playerbase, there are new players that take clan contracts and there are new players that take IS contracts.
How many of the IS Mechs below 55tons are valuable choices? You need to keep in mind that the IS has a whole lot of choices, some Players may have been playing for a while, but have not bought and mastered the required chassis for a valuable carry hard Dropdeck. Not to speak of the Oxide, you have to invest real money to get that baby.
Now take into consideration that the Trial Crow is always a solid choice on the clan side, and so is the Cheetah. Now look at the IS Mechs and compare them to the Trial Crow and ask yourself who is superior TCrow vs. Vindicator... TCrow vs. Trebuchet... TCrow vs BJ... etc. You will see, that most mechs that come close to equal need the XL, those that are superior to the TCrow definetly have an XL. Now as a "newish" player you need to have the Cbills to build and to master that entire stuff first for it to become equal or better. This is just hard stats you are comparing, sure. but it needs to be considered. I have Players in my Unit that have been playing for a while, when I tell them to try this or that loadout on a chassis, they don't have the cash to purchase the required engine. They know never to sell engines as they are great to keep in stock. A XL-300 or XL-320 is a bunch of Cbills you need to have, add Double Heat Sinks, maybe Artemis, Endo, and the Mechs you can build to be superior to a TCrow can get veeery expensive.
Consider that as well for a factor to why there is "imbalance". It is not the Tech alone it begins with the Trial Mechs on the Beginner Level. Experienced Players tend to forget to include new players and casuals into their equasions, when arguing for certain points. but they are a large portion of this game and one needs to see and realize that.

[Spetulhu]

Danjo San, on 09 July 2016 - 02:28 AM, said:

Still, keep in mind that we are talking about the entire playerbase, there are new players that take clan contracts and there are new players that take IS contracts.
Now take into consideration that the Trial Crow is always a solid choice on the clan side, and so is the Cheetah. Now look at the IS Mechs and compare them to the Trial Crow and ask yourself who is superior TCrow vs. Vindicator... TCrow vs. Trebuchet... TCrow vs BJ... etc. You will see, that most mechs that come close to equal need the XL, those that are superior to the TCrow definetly have an XL. Now as a "newish" player you need to have the Cbills to build and to master that entire stuff first for it to become equal or better.

It's probably the simple truth. I know I'm nowhere near the best but when I drop Oxide in scouting and get trial Vindi and Treb as mates along with, say, a tricked-out Hunchback it is not going to be fun. Oh, what did the enemy bring? 2 SCR Prime, a -D and a SMPL Nova. Ouch.

Ofc, we could demand that you should have mastered mechs before entering FP - but then there would be even fewer players.

[TWIAFU]

Flyingleanpocket, on 08 July 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

LOL'd so hard at waiting 35 minutes for a ghost drop.

Cant taste the fruits of ones labor when it just means no one queues up on the opposing team.

Keshav Murali, on 08 July 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Well, I was getting near instant drops in FW.

Atleast, when the scouting was not at 90%. That makes the IS queues disappear. Understandable.

So, one you have LT, no more live drops and huge wait times for ghost drops.

Ohh, that IS fun! Makes scouting and CW so much more fun and enjoyable for both sides by eliminating any opposition by this broken mechanic.

Wonder how fast you could have gotten live drops if LT was not so busticated?

I hope those at PGI are paying attention to what happens on planets with LT and the mass exodus it causes.

There is NO benefit to the game or it;s player by having LT stay in it's current form!!

[TWIAFU]

MischiefSC, on 07 July 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

The crux of streak issues come down to accuracy crutch and longer range giving you a free 60 pt hit on the enemy before they can shoot at you.

270m range, slightly slower missile speed so AMS is better against them (or make streaks softer vs ams) and I'd say that's a good start. There's still some fundamental tech balance issues but that'd roll back the bulk of the issue.

Actually M_SC, I would much rather go a different route then nerf sSRMs and Crutchcrows.

Develop and implement the tech advances the IS has made since the Clan Invasion that are fast becoming overdue.

I would much rather see the new tech and the options that opens up. What sounds more fun to you Sir, nerf of Crutchcrows or outfitting your GRF-2N with 4x sSRM6s? Splat cat with Streaks?

Personally, I would much rather see an attempt at 'balance' happen via tech advances in Lore.

[MischiefSC]

TWIAFU, on 09 July 2016 - 03:08 AM, said:

Actually M_SC, I would much rather go a different route then nerf sSRMs and Crutchcrows.

Develop and implement the tech advances the IS has made since the Clan Invasion that are fast becoming overdue.

I would much rather see the new tech and the options that opens up. What sounds more fun to you Sir, nerf of Crutchcrows or outfitting your GRF-2N with 4x sSRM6s? Splat cat with Streaks?

Personally, I would much rather see an attempt at 'balance' happen via tech advances in Lore.

Problem is that introducing autoaim mechanics creates more issues than it fixes. I'd love to see new tech advances but SSRMs having more range than SRMs is an issue in and of itself and big streak payloads just teaches people to be bad at the game.

[TWIAFU]

MischiefSC, on 09 July 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

Problem is that introducing autoaim mechanics creates more issues than it fixes. I'd love to see new tech advances but SSRMs having more range than SRMs is an issue in and of itself and big streak payloads just teaches people to be bad at the game.

I cannot argue against that line of thought as you make good points friend.

Personally, I would just rather see any balance attempts made first via technological advances and go from there.

[surgetank]

LONG TOM IS KILLING CW , ITS JUST NOT FUN ANYMORE

Tried to play C.W last night and today for the compo and i lost all my Mechs to Long Tom before i could do anything , This is killing this game and i am not the only one complaining about this.As it stands it needs to be removed from the game and until Pgi do something i will not be playing as the game is broken . WELL DONE PGI as i will not be spending anymore money on this game.

[R0bot Jox]

I think they should get rid of it, or at least reduce the damage. In my opinion the most it should do is to strip light mech from armour.