35 replies to this topic

[Gattsus]

I rather like IS/c BAP, the targeting info acquisition speedup is rather nice, it counters the magic jesus box, increases sensor range, etc... BAP is obviously fundamental for streak builds, though I'm wondering if do you use it in other builds? I like it in skirmish builds (strike& retreat/opportunistic) where targeting weak spots becomes crucial.

Though, my main question/issue, is that I'm not so sure about its utility in LRM boats, because of the minimum range for LRMs. Thus, I was wondering if would you consider reasonable to extend its range, maybe the IS version 120->150m, and Clan 150->180. The problem would be that streak-crows would eat alive lights, BUT it could help a lot Kintaros and other IS streak boats or Assaults that carry streaks against lights. Maybe buffing BAP in kintaros would be nice?

Let the flame wars begin!

Edited by Gattsus, 08 July 2016 - 02:19 AM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

The way I see BAP/CAP is that it should function as a true counter to ECM. And it should do that within it's own bubble of range, not within the ECM bubble.

That's pretty much all.

[El Bandito]

Now why should CAP still be better than BAP? Due to heavier tonnage and more space, BAP should be increased to 180 meters while CAP stays as 150 meters.

I personally use BAP in Scouting mode with my Locust-1V. I don't carry weapons and just care about gathering the intels. BAP, along with Sensor Range module helps me to keep the enemy away from my path.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2016 - 11:14 AM.

[Gattsus]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

Now why should CAP still be better than BAP? Due to heavier tonnage and more space, BAP should be increased to 180 meters while CAP stays as 150 meters.

I personally use BAP in Scouting mode with my Locust-1V. I don't carry weapons and just care about gathering the intels.

because Clan OP? and reasons? and better stuff and technology and obviously fluff,

The point that you raise it's actually rather interesting.

[El Bandito]

Gattsus, on 08 July 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

because Clan OP? and reasons? and better stuff and technology and obviously fluff,

The point that you raise it's actually rather interesting.

Same deal with Clan NARC and IS NARC. Clan NARC is lighter and more compact than that of IS NARC, yet is superior in performance. Clan ECM is lighter and more compact than that of IS ECM but has same performance.

PGI should correct these and buff the IS equipments a long time ago for balance, lore be damned.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[Kotzi]

It extends sensor range and thus closing the gap of your sensor range of 800 something to LRM max range 1000 (more through quirks) afaik. So it has benefits for LRMs if there wouldnt be the radar derp modul and tiny branches in your los to the enemy.

[Random Carnage]

Think Eastern bloc tech vs Western Tech. Tonne for tonne, whose machines have better technology, and subsequent edge over the other? Yup.

[Mcgral18]

Range for what?


They counter the Jesus Box to 240M, both
The 120/150 distance is to detect shut down mechs.

[Pjwned]

The increased sensor range is pretty good for long range direct fire sniper builds, like this or something similar.

Otherwise, not really that great to me.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

Same deal with Clan NARC and IS NARC. Clan NARC is lighter and more compact than that of IS NARC, yet is superior in performance. Clan ECM is lighter and more compact than that of IS ECM but has same performance.

PGI should correct these and buff the IS equipments a long time ago for balance, lore be damned.

I actually really like this idea.

Making IS utility equipment/weapons superior to Clans' would give them a further distinctiveness and something notably "superior" to the supposedly "OP" Clans.
_______________

On another note:

I am now a bit confused how BAP/CAP works. I thought it countered ECM only within the range of the ECM bubble.

Could someone clarify?

[El Bandito]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 08 July 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

I actually really like this idea.

Making IS utility equipment/weapons superior to Clans' would give them a further distinctiveness and something notably "superior" to the supposedly "OP" Clans.
_______________

On another note:

I am now a bit confused how BAP/CAP works. I thought it countered ECM only within the range of the ECM bubble.

Could someone clarify?

ECM reduces detectable range. BAP/CAP partially counter it by increasing the ECM reduced detectable range. Which is why even before BAP countered ECM, I had it on my Streakcat.

And of course at present day, within 180 240 meters, it hard counters ECM.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2016 - 06:09 PM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

ECM reduces detectable range. BAP/CAP partially counter it by increasing the ECM reduced detectable range. Which is why even before BAP countered ECM, I had it on my Streakcat.

And of course at present day, within 120/150 meters, it hard counters ECM.

Thanks for the explanation, Bandito! I may have to rethink its uses.

Now appropriately armed with that information I will remark that it certainly isn't good enough! It should have hard counter much farther away than that, as far as I am concerned!

[Mcgral18]

Mcgral18, on 08 July 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

Range for what?


They counter the Jesus Box to 240M, both
The 120/150 distance is to detect shut down mechs.

El Bandito, on 08 July 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

ECM reduces detectable range. BAP/CAP partially counter it by increasing the ECM reduced detectable range. Which is why even before BAP countered ECM, I had it on my Streakcat.

And of course at present day, within 120/150 meters, it hard counters ECM.

[James Warren]

I find it invaluable as a support tool on faster mechs. Its great for highlighting enemy UAVs on the minimap so that your pug team actually notices them.

[Pjwned]

James Warren, on 08 July 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

I find it invaluable as a support tool on faster mechs. Its great for highlighting enemy UAVs on the minimap so that your pug team actually notices them.

You shouldn't need BAP/CAP to spot a UAV in the first place because it's beyond stupid that you can't target something like that even when it's in plain sight, but because you're not quite close enough you can't target it because it has OP magic jesus bubble ECM apparently.

Anybody who whined about UAVs losing their completely unnecessary ECM bubble (when that change was being tested) is demonstrably a whining bad who expects to put a UAV up in the most obvious place possible next to a group of 10 enemy mechs facing them and somehow have it not be shot down.

[Steve Pryde]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

I personally use BAP in Scouting mode with my Locust-1V. I don't carry weapons and just care about gathering the intels. BAP, along with Sensor Range module halps me to keept he enemy away from my path.

Wouldn't the Pirate Bane be better with ECM? But sounds funny a standard engined Locust just for collecting intels, do this 4x in one team and the enemy team will never win lol.

[Brizna]

The increased sensor range has very limited usefulness, at 800-1000 missiles take too long to reach the target to hope they will hit and knowing where to aim for LR weaponry is of limited use since at that distance it's hard enough to HIT the target at all, so aiming for an specific body part is unpractical.
The ECM counter has great positive aspects but it also screams "I'm clooose" to any enemy ECM equipped mech which isn't something you'd like to do sometimes.
Now, the Target Info Gathering is a HUGE ADVANTAGE for any brawling build, at least as far as good players are concerned. Knowing where to aim for is a matter of life and death.

All in all it's a piece of equipment I try to stick in most mechs.

[El Bandito]

Steve Pryde, on 08 July 2016 - 04:32 AM, said:

Wouldn't the Pirate Bane be better with ECM? But sounds funny a standard engined Locust just for collecting intels, do this 4x in one team and the enemy team will never win lol.

1V is has a lot of durability quirks, which helps a lot vs lasers and what not. And yes, 190 Std is what I run.

Poor opposition is always left in the dust.

Brizna, on 08 July 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

The increased sensor range has very limited usefulness, at 800-1000 missiles take too long to reach the target to hope they will hit and knowing where to aim for LR weaponry is of limited use since at that distance it's hard enough to HIT the target at all, so aiming for an specific body part is unpractical.
The ECM counter has great positive aspects but it also screams "I'm clooose" to any enemy ECM equipped mech which isn't something you'd like to do sometimes.
Now, the Target Info Gathering is a HUGE ADVANTAGE for any brawling build, at least as far as good players are concerned. Knowing where to aim for is a matter of life and death.

All in all it's a piece of equipment I try to stick in most mechs.

I have BAP on my Battlemaster-3S. As a 85 ton mech it regularly rakes in 10000+ C-Bills per match with "Scouting" bonus alone, thanks to increased detection radius.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2016 - 05:02 AM.

[InspectorG]

Probe + Sensor Range module on mechs with surplus module slots = helps herd some cats in Solo.

its not bad equipment per se, but often, efficient builds dont have room for them.

[Kotzi]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

ECM reduces detectable range. BAP/CAP partially counter it by increasing the ECM reduced detectable range. Which is why even before BAP countered ECM, I had it on my Streakcat.

And of course at present day, within 120/150 meters, it hard counters ECM.

I thought ECM would be a bubble around the mech and any mech in that bubble cant be locked on. BAP counters this at 240m. ECM on counter does that within the ECM range. There was a time when BAP didnt counter ECM?