53 replies to this topic

[Legend Death]

Having a real hard time finding a place on the battlefield for my archer as a heavy mech.

It feels softer than my hunchback, and because engine weights has limited firepower. If i use an XL I can get a few wepons on it, all in all a very lackluster mech.

Comparing it to a timberwolf, in is inferior in every way I can imagine.

So maybe someone else who has one and has managed to make it work can give me some pointers? or maybe it is an issue that needs some attention from pgi.

[Navid A1]

[El Bandito]

8-9 LRM5s 5W is doing just fine. If you are not into LRMs, then use the 5S version with energy + SRMs. It is still inferior brawler than the Timbie, but I don't think any non-75 ton Heavy can out-brawl the Timbie anyway, let alone Archer with its hitboxes.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 May 2016 - 09:35 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MobilSkill, on 08 May 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

Having a real hard time finding a place on the battlefield for my archer as a heavy mech.

It feels softer than my hunchback, and because engine weights has limited firepower. If i use an XL I can get a few wepons on it, all in all a very lackluster mech.

Comparing it to a timberwolf, in is inferior in every way I can imagine.

So maybe someone else who has one and has managed to make it work can give me some pointers? or maybe it is an issue that needs some attention from pgi.

The Archer does have issues. It can be made to work, and PGI did help a little with some structure boosts.

That said... it's geometry, while absolutely gorgeous... also ensures bad hitboxes. It has the worst traits of the Mad Dog and the Dragon, (huge easy to hit STs and CT from any angle) exacerbated by arms which don't intercept much incoming fire, and a cockpit that means to hill hump, you gotta expose a lot of mech. The lack of quirks to encourage the use of the large LRM racks that ARCs are famous for is disappointing.

Seems like a lot of folks who have found success with it, have done so in a number of ways, and with varying variants.

Me? Only one I truly love to runs is my 5W with 5x LRM5s and 4x SRM4 in the arms. I usually try to avoid direct engagement early, but the SRMs are pretty effective at dissuading Light trying to hunt me. And I poke or use secondary locks to chainfire my LRMs (have a group fire toggle too, in case of AMS). So far has worked pretty well. But I also use a STD engine in it.
ARC-5W
Alternately a lot of folk run the 9x LRM5 or 9 x SRM4/SRM6 some variant thereof. Neither version suited me, so I can't comment on the best tactics for them.

I also rather enjoy the Tempest. But I haven't settled on any specific "perma-build" yet.

Neither the 5S or 2R have clicked with me at all.

Oh...and in June's rescale? Apparently the ARC will be getting bigger. So that'll be swell.

Navid A1, on 08 May 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

Interesting take on the build. I probably would have put the NARC CT for the lower exposure to using it (Especially with an XL). How does the LRM 10 cooldown fit into your cycle?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 May 2016 - 09:45 PM.

[Navid A1]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 May 2016 - 09:40 PM, said:

...
Interesting take on the build. I probably would have put the NARC CT for the lower exposure to using it (Especially with an XL). How does the LRM 10 cooldown fit into your cycle?

The LRM10 cooldown module fits in very nicely. the chain fire is nearly continuous.

Also... the narc is up high on the left arm... higher than the CT... and with lower arm actuator degree of freedom:

Spot the NARC:

[Sader325]

Same build I run on my Warhammer 7S. Functions the same kills the same. Get in heat yourself up with SRMS and Lasers, then use only SRMS till target is dead. Played right expect 600+ damage games easy. Played wrong expec to die, quickly.




Don't mix SRMs and LRMs. You'll just be bad at both, this varient is a brawler, don't kid yourself trying to toss LRMs on it. It may have 9 hardpoints but that doesnt mean you have to use it. Go fast, punch hard, put ******* down.




Good build, not meta, does the job. LRM 5's are hyper accurate and respectably quirked. Play this at 500m of range and expect very high damage games between 500 to 700. Move fast position correctly use up those LRM's and its pretty effective.




Tempest is trash. it has ECM and its punished for it. Honestly there is almost no reason to run this mech over any other laservomit mech and it sucks as both a LRM support or an SRM brawler.

If you REALLY need ecm? Run a Cataphract OXP, it's quirked far better and you'll probably do better damage. Tempest as it currently stands has barely a reason to exist. All the other archers are better.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 May 2016 - 09:40 PM, said:

The Archer does have issues. It can be made to work, and PGI did help a little with some structure boosts.

That said... it's geometry, while absolutely gorgeous... also ensures bad hitboxes. It has the worst traits of the Mad Dog and the Dragon, (huge easy to hit STs and CT from any angle) exacerbated by arms which don't intercept much incoming fire, and a cockpit that means to hill hump, you gotta expose a lot of mech. The lack of quirks to encourage the use of the large LRM racks that ARCs are famous for is disappointing.

All too true, and not really surprising. I'd hopes for the tempest, but overall Archers are fairly underwhelming mechs. Not terrible ones, but not particularly good either.

Quote

Seems like a lot of folks who have found success with it, have done so in a number of ways, and with varying variants.

a factor of motivation I think. You're determined to make something work, so it boils down to what clicks best for a given pilot to help them overcome the limitations of the chassis.

Quote

Me? Only one I truly love to runs is my 5W with 5x LRM5s and 4x SRM4 in the arms. I usually try to avoid direct engagement early, but the SRMs are pretty effective at dissuading Light trying to hunt me. And I poke or use secondary locks to chainfire my LRMs (have a group fire toggle too, in case of AMS). So far has worked pretty well. But I also use a STD engine in it.
ARC-5W
Alternately a lot of folk run the 9x LRM5 or 9 x SRM4/SRM6 some variant thereof. Neither version suited me, so I can't comment on the best tactics for them.

None worked very well for me, but a lot of that came down to my directly comparing them to my extremely successful Mad Dog, and it simply being objectively worse at everything.

I did find as well though that mixed builds where more successful than 9x(any single missile type). The hyper focused W's are too one-trick-pony(SRMLots) and/or too easily completely negated(LRMLots).

Quote

Oh...and in June's rescale? Apparently the ARC will be getting bigger. So that'll be swell.

Interesting, I hadn't heard that. Where was it?

Quote

Interesting take on the build. I probably would have put the NARC CT for the lower exposure to using it (Especially with an XL). How does the LRM 10 cooldown fit into your cycle?

you want the NARC in the arms for better aiming IMHO.

My Mad Dog has 5x5 and 1x10 as well, it works fine for a very nearly continuous stream, and pusbes a couple more missiles downrange. 10's slot well into a chainfire 5's group, their longer cooldown isn't really an issue - the order the launchers fire in can shift a bit, but you still get a continuous stream.

[Navid A1]

Sader325, on 08 May 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

Don't mix SRMs and LRMs. You'll just be bad at both, this varient is a brawler, don't kid yourself trying to toss LRMs on it. It may have 9 hardpoints but that doesnt mean you have to use it. Go fast, punch hard, put ******* down.

Spoiler

It takes some getting used to... but it works... not only it works... it wrecks!

[Sader325]

Navid A1, on 08 May 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

It takes some getting used to... but it works... not only it works... it wrecks!

Would you fit ER Small lasers and LRMs on the same mech?


Don't do it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 08 May 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

The LRM10 cooldown module fits in very nicely. the chain fire is nearly continuous.

Also... the narc is up high on the left arm... higher than the CT... and with lower arm actuator degree of freedom:

Spot the NARC:

1) Wasn't criticizing, was asking for input
2) Good point about the arm actuator
3) Actually it's not higher though.

can you spot the NARC?
(height difference is close enough that the arm actuator is definitely better, though)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 May 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[xVLFBERHxT]

I run all of my archers around a 2x LRM20, fillers are lasers or SRM´s.

The mech needs the big LRM´s and I have lots of fun in pug (nothing is more fun then "brawling" with the 20´s and hammer the mechs down ).

[Navid A1]

TrapJaw80, on 09 May 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

I run all of my archers around a 2x LRM20, fillers are lasers or SRM´s.

The mech needs the big LRM´s and I have lots of fun in pug (nothing is more fun then "brawling" with the 20´s and hammer the mechs down ).

I hate to say it, but LRM20 is bad... and you should feel... ah nvm!

[xVLFBERHxT]

BAD lol

[Wintersdark]

Sader325, on 08 May 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

Would you fit ER Small lasers and LRMs on the same mech?

Don't do it.

Absolutely. Why not? LRM's are best used up close. ERSmalls are best used up close. SRM's are best used up close.

Stop thinking LRM's are just for muttonheads hiding in the back.

I do on my Mad dog, and it's brutally effective. Not "effective if I'm left alone" or "effective against bads" but effective even against very good players, in 1v1 or even 2v1 situations.

The Archer is different, of course, but in the case of Mr. 9M, you can maximize LRM effectiveness without using all the launchers. More don't make it better. That leaves plenty of room for a solid SRM punch. As you're already engaging with LRM's at mid range at most, moving in enough to hit with the srms as well is both easy and effective.

[Wintersdark]

TrapJaw80, on 09 May 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

I run all of my archers around a 2x LRM20, fillers are lasers or SRM´s.

The mech needs the big LRM´s and I have lots of fun in pug (nothing is more fun then "brawling" with the 20´s and hammer the mechs down ).

15's do more actual damage than 20's, just saying. In 100% of cases, you're more effective mounting 15's. 5's or 10's too, if you have the hardpoints.

20's cycle too slow and spread too much - they spread so much some missiles even miss against motionless Atlases. That spread and thus misses plus increased cycle time results in less actual damage than firing a 15, despite using much more ammo.

Thus, even at a 1:1 trade, 15's are more effective than 20's.

[xVLFBERHxT]

Wintersdark, on 09 May 2016 - 01:10 AM, said:

15's do more actual damage than 20's, just saying. In 100% of cases, you're more effective mounting 15's. 5's or 10's too, if you have the hardpoints.

20's cycle too slow and spread too much - they spread so much some missiles even miss against motionless Atlases. That spread and thus misses plus increased cycle time results in less actual damage than firing a 15, despite using much more ammo.

Thus, even at a 1:1 trade, 15's are more effective than 20's.

I know, but thx.
Its just for fun and the game is about fun, right?

[S 0 L E N Y A]

First of all you need to forget the comparison of an Archer to a Timby.
Nothing really compares to a Timby.

For the 5w my favorite loadout is 3x LRM5 and 6x SRM4.

The LRMs are just for minor support and closing distance.
It also a lot of fun when some joker thinks you are just a pure LRM boat and decides to face tank you.
Totally not a meta build, but can be effective and lots of fun.

Sader325, on 08 May 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

Would you fit ER Small lasers and LRMs on the same mech?


Don't do it.

Given that ER smalls will cover the range where your LRMs are doing almost no damage, why not?
But that is clan speak. So not applicable here.

[Bud Crue]

What ended up being the best Archer for me was a fairly "blah" 5S build: 4MPL, 2 LRM-15s +A, Beagle and a std 290. 72KPH lets you keep up with most heavies and certainly the assaults. Dish LRM damage as you close, and then switch over to the MPL and supplement with LRM as range permits. Play the others (save the Tempest as I turned it into an energy boat) pretty much the same way (W: 5 lrm5s, 4 srm4s; R: 3 LRM10s, 5(6) ML, Tag(no tag)).

[dervishx5]

Good place for an Archer is being in the middle of your allies' formation and provided LRM support >350 meters.

Best place for the Archer is in your mechbay.

[CDLord HHGD]

I used LRM10x2 and MLx# and constantly put up numbers I was very happy with (700+ damage). <1000 LRMs, don't need to boat. When you run out of ammo, wade in with your MLs. I think I'm even running an XL too....