139 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 July 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

As video games get bigger, their cost for development skyrockets as well. This means big budgets that often rival movies. Look at the monster that was GTA V. What was it's cost to make? 350 million?

As the industry continues to grow and eclipse other forms of media, it will become ever increasingly more of a cutthroat industry where the risks will be greater and the need for a sure thing becomes more important.

I have a feeling that a AAA game that does poorly could (and often does) destroy a developer. One game could make or break you when games become ever increasingly more expensive. Even publishers who could absorb a big loss, won't because that means angry stock holders and VPs and Execs stepping down and resigning over blunders made in the marketplace.

More and more big budget games being made will gravitate to the sure thing and drift away from risky things like creativity or going against a popular genre. There is just too big a risk for failure.

We will still have the smaller devs and publishers that will experiment with new ideas with a relatively small budget. But big devs like EA, Activision, Blizzard, etc... It's twitch shooters with a heavy lean on multiplayer. That is until a new genre or idea comes about and becomes popular, then they all jump on board and clone that idea.

Yep the twitch shooters are small gamble. That's why there is like 4 or 5 Overwatch clones coming out this year alone.

The biggest titles surpassed the biggest movie budgets a while ago I think. Destiny was huge for instance.

Yep there are a few heads rolling for companies. I think Destiny's lead got let go and a few others games as well.

Ubisoft is on the ropes(boxing term although I never boxed ) at the moment for big companies gambling wrong as an example.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 July 2016 - 09:47 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 July 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

P.S. Even Fallout 4 is more of a FPS than ever before.

That's not necessarily because of the FPS genre coming back, that may be simply an evolution of what the devs wanted, because there were more changes between 3 and 4 than feeling more like a traditional FPS. It is certainly easier to blame that, but not necessarily the cause.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 July 2016 - 09:45 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 July 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Which is exactly what the Music and Movie industries have already done, which is why there is so little innovation and so much stagnation. And thus is the case in video games too.

Doesn't matter the media platform. The majority of the purchasing public are American Idol watching morons.

When Capitalism is involved, it may spur innovation, but it doesn't necessarily drive creativity. It's about the most efficient way to make the maximum profit.

Because of this, a growing gaming industry is both a blessing and a curse.

I'm not saying capitalism is bad, but it doesn't always put the consumers interests ahead of the people that provide the products.

[Bud Crue]

This thread kinda grew, so I am not sure if this has been thrown out there, but many of the posts I read seem to be premised on the idea of having a second studio being involved with PVE or Campaign game for purposes of developing a story. If that is all, why not use the community?

I don't mean random ideas like most of out forum threads, but perhaps do a contest or something wherein they ask for story outlines involving certain criteria (the narrative must advance across 12 different locations wherein each location has 3-4 mission goals to be achieved sequentially or in combination, wherein each mission must be thematically linked to the next; a single location may be used more than once, etc.). Prize would be game writing credit and whatever in game content PGI wants to give out, maybe even real cash ala the tournament. Hell they could even have another contest amongst the community to judge the finalists. Might even raise some good will, and heaven forbid be fun.

I'm serious here, I have encountered folks in-game as well as here in the forums who are aspiring or actual published writers. Give em a shot. Couldn't be worse than some of the dreck we've all seen.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 July 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

I'm not saying capitalism is bad

I'll say it for you if you want

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 July 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

When Capitalism is involved, it may spur innovation, but it doesn't necessarily drive creativity. It's about the most efficient way to make the maximum profit.

To do this, innovation has to come around at some point or stagnation will eventually crash it, the law of entropy is true even to markets.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Bud Crue, on 12 July 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

This thread kinda grew, so I am not sure if this has been thrown out there, but many of the posts I read seem to be premised on the idea of having a second studio being involved with PVE or Campaign game for purposes of developing a story. If that is all, why not use the community?

I don't mean random ideas like most of out forum threads, but perhaps do a contest or something wherein they ask for story outlines involving certain criteria (the narrative must advance across 12 different locations wherein each location has 3-4 mission goals to be achieved sequentially or in combination, wherein each mission must be thematically linked to the next; a single location may be used more than once, etc.). Prize would be game writing credit and whatever in game content PGI wants to give out, maybe even real cash ala the tournament. Hell they could even have another contest amongst the community to judge the finalists. Might even raise some good will, and heaven forbid be fun.

I'm serious here, I have encountered folks in-game as well as here in the forums who are aspiring or actual published writers. Give em a shot. Couldn't be worse than some of the dreck we've all seen.

I like the idea... Just let chime in a bit...

Maybe some of these story writers should just post their stories without the contest even being menchened! Maybe pgi might just see them and grab it!

But I think they should keep the story simple, cannon based/inspired (or make sure it doesnt go against cannon), and filled with cameos (yes! Especially cameos!!!)

If at the very worst, even if these stories dont get grabbed, I am sure they will be a fun read for the community!

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 12 July 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

This thread kinda grew, so I am not sure if this has been thrown out there, but many of the posts I read seem to be premised on the idea of having a second studio being involved with PVE or Campaign game for purposes of developing a story. If that is all, why not use the community?

I don't mean random ideas like most of out forum threads, but perhaps do a contest or something wherein they ask for story outlines involving certain criteria (the narrative must advance across 12 different locations wherein each location has 3-4 mission goals to be achieved sequentially or in combination, wherein each mission must be thematically linked to the next; a single location may be used more than once, etc.). Prize would be game writing credit and whatever in game content PGI wants to give out, maybe even real cash ala the tournament. Hell they could even have another contest amongst the community to judge the finalists. Might even raise some good will, and heaven forbid be fun.

I'm serious here, I have encountered folks in-game as well as here in the forums who are aspiring or actual published writers. Give em a shot. Couldn't be worse than some of the dreck we've all seen.

Involving the Community, IMO usually just becomes a big ego fest. I'd rather an outside source without contact with the community, tbh.

[Johnny Z]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 July 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

When Capitalism is involved, it may spur innovation, but it doesn't necessarily drive creativity. It's about the most efficient way to make the maximum profit.

Because of this, a growing gaming industry is both a blessing and a curse.

I'm not saying capitalism is bad, but it doesn't always put the consumers interests ahead of the people that provide the products.

The two biggest jumps in technology in history(not prehistoric) were during the early Greek city states and during the renaissance in Italy city states mostly, although Paris and Berlin and Vienna were a large part of it and cities in Spain and other cities in Europe. This is no secret because the much newer county, the United States tried their best to copy it.

This was also the best politics as well and no coincidence and modern terms like "Capitalism" and even "Communism" tried to copy it as well. Although it had little to do with such things. It had more to do with people being reason able.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 July 2016 - 10:24 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I guess to kind of tie this all back around...

I think MechWarrior never really progressed past the Mechassault titles because it was traditionally a more AAA title back in it's day, and therefore the budget to make a new MechWarrior game to that level was too risky. It belonged to a stagnating simulator genre and it didn't fit the mold it needed to fit to warrant the risk. It wasn't...CoD enough.

Luckily though, it is getting easier for smaller studios to produce quality tittles with some depth (even if it doesn't carry AAA production level quality).

MWO shows that a MechWarrior title and the Battltech franchise can be relavent and do well. I'm sure it played a big part in convincing HBS there was an audience for Battletech. If that franchise does well and sequels do well, I could see a nice modest Mechwarrior tittle being possible. Maybe it will be built off of MWO's PvE project or made by someone else.

Either way MWO got the ball rolling, HBS might but some much needed energy behind it, and there might be enough hype to warrant a small and fun MechWarrior single player experience (whether it is PGI's doing or some other developer).

It will never be AAA with the current trending of the industry, but it could still be a fun little game. We can all hope anyway.

[TKSax]

So the quetsion I ask, why does everyone Clamor for a PVE/SP in MWO? I know part of it is nostgia, but it seems strange that people want this from a game that was Mulitplayer only from the start.

Was it becuase you know PGI wanted to do Mechwarrior 5?

Or is it what I expect that PGI has been unable to deliver mechwarrior experience most have wanted in MWO (including me), so you think they can do that with a Single Player Campaign or PvE?

[Bud Crue]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 July 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Involving the Community, IMO usually just becomes a big ego fest. I'd rather an outside source without contact with the community, tbh.

Yes, but this seems just as likely as PGI involving another company in the development of their game. I am merely trying to extend the boundaries of this little fantasy exercise that is this thread. To me I wanted to think of way that PGI could proceed to making a PVE/campaign game and drum up as much excitement and positive vibes as possible with the players. To think of ways that PGI can involve the community and create a sense of fun. None of this will happen. I just like to imagine if it did. (edit: kind of like immersive CW).

Edited by Bud Crue, 12 July 2016 - 10:15 AM.

[Jetfire]

I would love to see HBS help write the lore and dialog.

[MeiSooHaityu]

TKSax, on 12 July 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

So the quetsion I ask, why does everyone Clamor for a PVE/SP in MWO?

I think it is because the current multiplayer only feels a bit hollow. There is all this lore in the Battletech universe and this game pretty much mashes different factions and timelines all into one competitive blob with no context.

People just want to experience a story and have the factions mean something. The multiplayer is fine for a while, but with no goal or direction that a SP game can provide, it just feels like you are spinning your wheels sometimes.

As for why PGI? It is pretty much the only company that can provide a SP experience at this point (at least in a MechWarrior title).

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TKSax, on 12 July 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

So the quetsion I ask, why does everyone Clamor for a PVE/SP in MWO? I know part of it is nostgia, but it seems strange that people want this from a game that was Mulitplayer only from the start.

It gives people background insight into the factions and the conflicts between them. It could be done in Overwatch/TF2 style but it seems the PGI just doesn't have the willingness to create good quality shorts or comics like either of those games.

[SmoothCriminal]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 July 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

It gives people background insight into the factions and the conflicts between them. It could be done in Overwatch/TF2 style but it seems the PGI just doesn't have the willingness to create good quality shorts or comics like either of those games.

Yes - it creates the immersion and depth that would keep people interested in playing beyond TDM. Or it should do, at least. Or, it might do, perhaps. Or is has a small change of doing so, if tied in with other ideas to pin the audience into investing time/money into the game. I mean, in reality, who the **** even knows?

the issue with a non persistent story is it would be just that - smash it out for 12 hours, thanks, that was fun, now we're back to square 1. If the story evolves and expands (read $$$ opportunities), then it would tie people in.

Best example I can think of is Halo 4 - weekly progression co-op content telling a story against some bland and repeatable AI missions. Or see any MMORPG for content drops and raid updates.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 July 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Involving the Community, IMO usually just becomes a big ego fest. I'd rather an outside source without contact with the community, tbh.

But i would still love to read some... I got a soft spot for fan fiction i guess. Lol!

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 July 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

It gives people background insight into the factions and the conflicts between them. It could be done in Overwatch/TF2 style but it seems the PGI just doesn't have the willingness to create good quality shorts or comics like either of those games.

SmoothCriminal, on 12 July 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Yes - it creates the immersion and depth that would keep people interested in playing beyond TDM. Or it should do, at least. Or, it might do, perhaps. Or is has a small change of doing so, if tied in with other ideas to pin the audience into investing time/money into the game. I mean, in reality, who the **** even knows?

the issue with a non persistent story is it would be just that - smash it out for 12 hours, thanks, that was fun, now we're back to square 1. If the story evolves and expands (read $$$ opportunities), then it would tie people in.

Best example I can think of is Halo 4 - weekly progression co-op content telling a story against some bland and repeatable AI missions. Or see any MMORPG for content drops and raid updates.

Man... They need to make a battletech movie!!! That would bring in so many customers that pgi would be swimming in money!

Heck there are so many books in the battletech universe too pull stories from, they could be making movies for years!!! And be making money like MCU is currently doing!!!

And once you anime the mechs once, you can just use those over and over again in future movies to come!

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 12 July 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[Metus regem]

Or you know, they could go back to MW2:Mercs for a good IS story... That was probaly hands down, the best MW game made to date.

As for Clan side MW2/GBL were good stories too...


I've always felt, that when (if) they get around to making a single player experience for MWO, they should do two different campaigns that really highlight the differences in the tech bases. Have the pay off being that you get to take one mech from each campaign into the multi-player side the first time you beat each campaign.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 July 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Involving the Community, IMO usually just becomes a big ego fest. I'd rather an outside source without contact with the community, tbh.

Might as well have PGI do it in that case since they barely talk to us as it is.
Like I said before I am all for someone partnering up with PGI to make the single-player/co-op game, but I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with another studio that doesn't communicate with us.

[JC Daxion]

well it is pretty obvious they would need a separate team...


writers, coders, map designers, GUI, voice over, in game cut sceens/movies.. Some can translate, but others need new folks.. The studio would need to grow.. How it does, doesn't mater to me, if they higher the right people then that would be great.

While the game might move as fast in the direction they want, to me it has gotten steadily better over the years.. this would be another improvement.

WarHippy, on 12 July 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

Might as well have PGI do it in that case since they barely talk to us as it is.
Like I said before I am all for someone partnering up with PGI to make the single-player/co-op game, but I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with another studio that doesn't communicate with us.

Funny, i don't recall any of the previous mech games, or mech commander having major communication, Just like 100's of single player RPG's/story based games that i have played that have been fantastic.. that people never even knew they existed till a few months before launch.. (had the makers of the Witcher listened to me, they would of kept the original iso-metric game play which i adorded.. to bad for me, they switched to 3D first person, which many love.. me.. not so much.. ) I guess if masses are right,, i am wrong.. but like mech warrior fans.. ISO metric game play fans are a nitch breed..

People are just way to obsessed with their ideas i think, sure some are good, others, not so much, or people disagree.. Every game i have ever played i always thing, it would be better if they did X, y and Z.. and then someone else thinks, X, Y, and Z are would make it terrible.


Just look at this game.. How many people say VOIP, and command wheel are a total waste.. Yet how many people requested said features.. (command wheel needs some more function i will agree, but still it is something tons of people have requested) I could go on with a huge list of things that came directly from the community,, but i won't bother..

how many people want CW? how many people could care less? see what i mean? Yes they should listen to the community to a point.. But i can say for certain i have seen people suggest stuff that i think totally sucks.. at the same time, some people love said idea.. It's always a balance..

Edited by JC Daxion, 12 July 2016 - 11:34 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Procurator Derek, on 11 July 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

so tell me, who would code it aside from PGI

I was hoping for somebody competent.
That just might be me though