19 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I'm kinda at my wits end right now... and I'm not really sure what to do at this point.

Solo matches in pug queue have either been "Stomp" or "Get stomped" and seems to lean towards the latter.

And I don't know what's going on, other than I feel like I'm constantly getting mismatched HARD.

So I'd like to put forth to PGI, please... Matching should be: current PSR +/- 1 tier.

IE Tier 5's can fight Tier 5's and 4's... taking out a tier 4 pilot as a a tier 5 should reward a boost in the "exp"[using that as a placeholder term] towards next rating.

Tier 4's can fight Tier 5,4,3 but not 2 or 1. and so on.

Killing pilots of your own tier = normal psr movement. killing higher tier = boosted. killing lower tier = less than average.

Being killed by lower tiers = more loss to the XP bar, same tier= normal loss higher tier= less loss to psr.

This still gives plenty of potential players from the pool's to pull from to make a match, but results in arguably more balanced gameplay since tier 5's aren't playing against tier 3's, ect.

it also makes the matches more enjoyable at varying tier level's since you get less overall skill spread.

I know PSR isn't an exact science or representation of average player skill, but it's the current best metric we have... and it should take into account these levels when making a match, and it should be a tighter gate, only opening the "Release valves" when absolutely necessary to get a full match.

[Foxwalker]

Wow asking them to fix this system, when you have to realize the system was the fix to the last broken system. You think the next fix is going to be an improvement? LOL.

We have seen it before. The easy fix would be to decrease the number of players per match so the resultant player pool has a greater chance to have matching tier players. This is in several threads. They need to bring back 8V8.

[Lily from animove]

what is being killed?

so a t1 and a t1 battle it out, one survuives with a red ct and another t5 comes across sweeping 1dmg over it getting a kill on that T1. Hows that going to eb judged in your idea?

It's PGI thinking like you that gets us the bad systems, because your systems has a bsic interstign idea, but in all the possible scenarios there are soem huge gaps your idea just breaks from working.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 July 2016 - 01:19 PM.

[FallingAce]

Kills have very little to do with skill. Only the guy who got the kill shot.

Psr has little to do with skill. Win you'll probably go up, lose you'll probably go down.

It's just a matchmaking tool and not a very good one.

[Simbacca]

Making PSR not linked to Match Score would be a start.

[Felicitatem Parco]

PSR is currently +/-2.
The OP thinks that +/-1 will stop stomps.

My question is: what makes you think that PSR is seeding one team with higher ranking players than the other all the time?

Do you assume that PSR just happens to favor one side very often, and that is what is causing stomps?

(also, do you think it is worth the increase in wait times to do that? Wait times would get much longer if we had smaller pools of pilots to draw from...)

Edited by Prosperity Park, 13 July 2016 - 01:31 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lily from animove, on 13 July 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

what is being killed?

so a t1 and a t1 battle it out, one survuives with a red ct and another t5 comes across sweeping 1dmg over it getting a kill on that T1. Hows that going to eb judged in your idea?

It's PGI thinking like you that gets us the bad systems, because your systems has a bsic interstign idea, but in all the possible scenarios there are soem huge gaps your idea just breaks from working.

T1 survives and a T2 get's the kill, yes under the way I explained it, the T2 would get bonus XP, but a T5 would never see a T1 in match.

The current system doesnt take into account who get's the most damage on a target anyway in regards to PSR I'm pretty sure... and even if it does, fine.

the main meat and potatoes of my post, is the +/- 1 tier either way system.

[mailin]

The single most OP piece of equipment is comms use. You have no idea if the enemy team is on comms when it's a stomp, but I'd like to suggest that at least one person on the enemy team is on comms and calling targets.

If you haven't gotten on comms yet, do it, and try to do it as often as you play. I say that completely understanding that sometimes comms use is not going to happen. Personally I play a lot at night and my computer is right outside my kids' bedrooms. In that case, there's no way I can talk on comms, but I can and do listen. When I can play and be on comms I find that I tend to win more often and more of those wins are overwhelming.

TLDR; Use comms.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Prosperity Park, on 13 July 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

PSR is currently +/-2.
The OP thinks that +/-1 will stop stomps.

My question is: what makes you think that PSR is seeding one team with higher ranking players than the other all the time?

Do you assume that PSR just happens to favor one side very often, and that is what is causing stomps?

(also, do you think it is worth the increase in wait times to do that? Wait times would get much longer if we had smaller pools of pilots to draw from...)

But are the pools really that much smaller when you get down to it?

T1's complain about fighting lower tiered opponents all the time, and T5's complain about fighting higher tiered opponents all the time.

THIS, is your happy medium... is it the best fix? No, but it's the easiest to implement, and the easiest to work from.

+/-2 is what we've had for a while, and clearly, it's not working... so tighten the restriction... you're never going to make everyone happy, but at least with a +/-1 system, matches would likely be tighter.

And everyone's going to complain about wait times no matter what they do, it's too fast, it's too slow, people will ***** about anything.

mailin, on 13 July 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

The single most OP piece of equipment is comms use. You have no idea if the enemy team is on comms when it's a stomp, but I'd like to suggest that at least one person on the enemy team is on comms and calling targets.

If you haven't gotten on comms yet, do it, and try to do it as often as you play. I say that completely understanding that sometimes comms use is not going to happen. Personally I play a lot at night and my computer is right outside my kids' bedrooms. In that case, there's no way I can talk on comms, but I can and do listen. When I can play and be on comms I find that I tend to win more often and more of those wins are overwhelming.

TLDR; Use comms.

... Mailin, I've been here since 2012... do you really... REALLY think I'm a big enough idiot to NOT use comms? Seriously man, between TS and IGVOIP... I've been using comms in one form or another for years...

But regardless of comms, I still see HEAVY losses almost constantly, and I mean WIPES... out of the 10+ games I've played today, I've had 1, count them 1 good, even, down to the wire match, it resulted in a loss, but that doesn't matter, because it was a hell of a fight, that was down to the wire.

Seriously man... don't automatically assume someone who's a legendary founder, is averse to comms.

[Lily from animove]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 July 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

T1 survives and a T2 get's the kill, yes under the way I explained it, the T2 would get bonus XP, but a T5 would never see a T1 in match.

The current system doesnt take into account who get's the most damage on a target anyway in regards to PSR I'm pretty sure... and even if it does, fine.

the main meat and potatoes of my post, is the +/- 1 tier either way system.

a T5 can see a T1 because group play is done in public involves Tier judgement and will include teams made of t1-T5

[Moldur]

Matchmaking would be so much better if it worked perfectly.

Well yeah. No duh. I would totally ace every test. All I have to do is answer everything right.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lily from animove, on 13 July 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

a T5 can see a T1 because group play is done in public involves Tier judgement and will include teams made of t1-T5

group play doesn't take Tiers into account anyway, that's a moot discussion.

[EgoSlayer]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 July 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

group play doesn't take Tiers into account anyway, that's a moot discussion.

Wrong, it still uses PSR to create the match, it's just that the PSR is the group average. It's still PSR, the only thing that changes is because of averages the hard limit of no tier 4/5 vs tier one can't be used.

It still does the match based on a PSR target, then after 1 minute expands that target by 1 tier, then after two minutes expands it by +1 tier again. Exact same system, and exact same PSR affects on your rating in wins/losses.

EDIT: Also, the way Russ described it in a previous Town Hall 2 or 3 months ago it sounds like it's not the PSR Tier rating of 1 or 2, but the actual PSR score of say (using completely made up numbers since we don't know the actual values) 10,125 and the +/- one tier for the match maker is +/- 2000 PSR points (Whatever the PSR value per tier is).

Edited by EgoSlayer, 13 July 2016 - 02:11 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

EgoSlayer, on 13 July 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Wrong, it still uses PSR to create the match, it's just that the PSR is the group average. It's still PSR, the only thing that changes is because of averages the hard limits of no tier 4/5 vs tier one can't be used.
It still does the match based on a PSR target, then after 1 minute expands that target by 1 tier, then after two minutes expands it by +1 tier again. Exact same system, and exact same PSR affects on your rating in wins/losses.

Then perhaps we should be looking at a 2 tier system. 1 tier for pug, 1 tier for group. My concern is pug queue first and foremost.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

PSR is an exp bar more or less (looking at my t1.. what a joke).

Although, the better the pilots are, the more a match will most likely flip hard after the first kill imbalance. so a 0-3 might say nothing in t4 but a 0-3 in t1 is more often then not a lost game.

On a side note, there are only 2 and a half tier imo.

t1-3, t 3-5 and that little odd thing in between t2-4. If i log onto my t3 alt, i will see the exact same players i played with/against with my t1 account.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 13 July 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[mailin]

I figured you were probably on comms, but the question is, are your team mates then?

It would be great if we were only matched against people in the same tier as us, but this is the system we're given. I agree that +-1 would be better than what we have currently though. I think that currently the higher pools are fairly small, especially in Puglandia. If PGI tightened the restriction it would take even longer to find a game, which is something I don't think many would approve of.

[Deathlike]

I don't think PGI has a legitimate understanding of building a good MM. We've gone though multiple iterations anyways.

The bigger problem is population, which makes the job of the MM harder and worse than it should be.

[Andi Nagasia]

Deathlike, on 13 July 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

I don't think PGI has a legitimate understanding of building a good MM. We've gone though multiple iterations anyways.

The bigger problem is population, which makes the job of the MM harder and worse than it should be.

Many Company's have problems making good MatchMakers,
some Just Leave it W/L Only System, or a K/D Only System, both have Huge Flaws,

[PhoenixFire55]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 July 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

So I'd like to put forth to PGI, please... Matching should be: current PSR +/- 1 tier.

You are right to be concerned about the quality of MM, but wrong if you think this'll change anything. PSR is broken by design and unless its algorithm is changed nothing will improve.

As for killing/getting killed by certain tier players it is also broken by design. A kill is simply a finishing blow, a T3 can scratch a red cored T1 with his lazzorz and get a big boost for nothing etc.

[EvilCow]

The problem with tiers is that anybody can get to T1 playing enough (PGI admitted this) because tiers are "open" and this, intrinsically, makes the MM pointless.

Tiers need to be closed, a fixed percentage is T1, then a fixed percentage is T2 and so on. When somebody becomes T1 someone else must slide out in T2.

Imagine tiers as follow, percentages are examples and could be discussed:

T1 - top 10%
T2 - 15%
T3 - 20%
T4 - 25%
T5 - remaining 30%.

T1 would have access to up 45% of players for match making.
T2 would have access to up 60%.
T3, T4 and T5 would have access to up 75%.

PSR calculation is to be discussed but the important thing is to prevent players grouping toward T1 or the MM will never really work.

Another point are inactive players, I think that those should be removed from tiers after 30 days and be reinserted in tiers using ther last PSR on return.

Edited by EvilCow, 14 July 2016 - 01:59 AM.