21 replies to this topic

[Rhayn]

Just took out my KingCrab and did a total of 59 damage before getting taken out by LRMs on the new polar highlands. I've got the largest engine that I can fit into it, and it's still as slow as a stationary rock compared to my usual locust and raven builds. In a map so open, is there any way to counter LRMs? If the MM fails to place me in a lobby with ECMs, then I fail to see how I'm supposed to survive and do any damage against the new-coming cat+maddog lrm spam that this event brought on.

[Koniving]

AMS.
ECM.
Not getting spotted (stay low).
Arms up, torso twisted.
No XL engine (you'd be surprised).
Radar Derp.


But really it's all about not being found.
No one sees you, no one LRMs you.

[Alienized]

and ofc a team that knows how to play with their own assaults instead of against them and leaving them behind.

[HammerMaster]

Biggest baddest mech on the battlefield stands no chance vs ANY lance of mechs. You take your pick. Autocannon. Lasers. Lrm. You melt. Lrm is not the prob. Dont be lulled into false confidence. An assault has its place yes. But sounds to me you need to be more conservative. Let mediums and lights find targets. They fade back to heavies and assaults. THEN you pounce. THEN you show what a king crab can do.

[jper4]

polar highlands is also the "LRMer's friend" map. like others have said- try to stay in the ravines as best you can and not get spotted. also once everyone gets to the "stand still for 10 minutes and poke-shoot" stage of the match find something with ecm and wander up next to it so that way it's tougher for them to target you

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Radar derp

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Everyone has said very great advice, but I would to add 1 more thing...

Look out for enemy UAVs! They are up there!

If you dont see an enemy mech... And the lrms are still coming, then the enemy still sees you!

Either you dont have radar derp equipped, theres an ecm mech out there... (Or a light mech behind you in the distance)... Or... Or... Yup... Theres at least 1 enemy UAV above you somewhere.

Look up! Get into cover... Or fight in the shade...

[Dar1ng One]

Camm2310, on 15 July 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Just took out my KingCrab and did a total of 59 damage

Crab-ulous!

Mmmmmmm..... yes

[Void Angel]

Camm2310, on 15 July 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Just took out my KingCrab and did a total of 59 damage before getting taken out by LRMs on the new polar highlands. I've got the largest engine that I can fit into it, and it's still as slow as a stationary rock compared to my usual locust and raven builds. In a map so open, is there any way to counter LRMs? If the MM fails to place me in a lobby with ECMs, then I fail to see how I'm supposed to survive and do any damage against the new-coming cat+maddog lrm spam that this event brought on.

As others have pointed out, use Radar Deprivation, try to stick with ECM, and use cover to move as well as to fight.

More specifically to Polar Highlands, well... Polar Highlands is a great map, but it suffers from the greatest pitfall of common wisdom - much of it is false. At a glance, Polar Highlands has vast fields of rolling snow hills with very few places where high cover (tall enough to truly shield you from LRMs) is available. Enemies can potentially see you at extreme distances, and moving toward them over those killing fields can be a challenge. This has led many players to assume that the Polar Highlands gives a clear advantage to LRMs and sniping weapons, while hamstringing close- and mid-range builds.

Most players aren't paying enough attention.

The Polar Highlands actually lends the upper hand to mobile teams who work together and understand how to fight on the move and flank. Every strong point can be bypassed; every killing field has a way around it - and there is a concealed route available to anywhere you want to go. Polar punishes mistakes in positioning more severely than any other map. Been there, done that, got the laser burns. But it also rewards mobility warfare - even in Assaults. Once you get around the side of whatever low ridge or shallow trench the enemy is using for cover, he suddenly becomes the one with nowhere to hide.

Trouble is that most maps don't really train people to fight like that - Viridian Bog rewards mobility in much the same way, but the maps' terrain types are so different that I doubt many players make the connection. Instead, most maps devolve into glorified trench warfare: players move to contact at the point players usually make contact, find cover, and then try to poke and peek until the enemy is worn down sufficiently that they feel safe enough to close in.

Canyon Network is an excellent example: the combination of readily available high cover almost anywhere on the map - combined with the concealment that cover provides to flankers - makes poke and hide tactics very easy and attractive. Long range builds, however, are preferred, because of the distances involved over the tops of the canyons and the lack of risk for enemies who chase a close-ranged 'mech (say a Jenner) who attempts to flank them (they just drop off into a canyon and give chase.)

The voting system reinforces the perceived favored weapons and tactics (right or wrong) of each map by allowing players to vote for the maps they feel best compliment their loadouts. Thus, the Polar Highlands will often be choked with LRM users, dakka/snipers, and fast lights, with only the players who voted against the map likely to have brought brawling weapons. So with a tendency for your team to feel that the map is one big, uncrossable killing field, it can be very hard to get enough players to properly utilize the map for you to actually use a direct-fire build of any kind without getting plastered by explosive rain.

To combat all this, keep moving, stay to the low ground (preferably with an ECM teammate,) keep moving, and use your mic to encourage the team to keep maneuvering around the side of the enemy's cover. And did I mention to keep moving? I've spent a lot of time driving an Atlas, both in PuGs and 12-mans (that was before they had Community warfa- er, faction play,) and I'll tell you: most of the times Assault pilots get "left behind," it's their own fault. They either brought too slow a machine, didn't pick the right route to where they wanted to go, or stopped to return fire as soon as they got shot at (the Dire Wolf is the minimum speed for an assault, and that's still its major weakness; look how nasty the Kodiak-3 is and remember that it's just a Dakka Whale with more speed.)

Keep moving, keep low, watch for spotters and UAVs - and use your microphone to ask your team to do likewise. It'll help at least a bit, and sometimes quite a lot.

Edited by Void Angel, 16 July 2016 - 12:01 AM.

[Audacious Aubergine]

Void Angel has excellent advice, but to add another hint - if you see the missile warning, try to avoid moving straight backwards, since the missiles may still track to you and just increase the distance they fly. Instead, try to move laterally once you think you're out of sight, this will increase the chance that the missiles will properly lose their lock. Assuming you're getting bombarded from about 800m away, even a 100t assault has time to move away provided you act as soon as you see the warning

[John1352]

Lots of people are talking about taking cover and avoiding the LRMs. In slower 100 ton mechs that often just gets you killed with very small amounts of damage. My recommendation is to walk forwards and unleash the dakka on the LRM boat/spotter. This is extra true when you're bringing something like 4 UAC5s. You will have twice or more the sustained DPS of the enemy mech and more armor, but you can't use it when you're hiding behind a rock.

You might get left by your teammates and focused by the enemies, in which case you may get 150 damage. If the enemies don't focus fire on you, anything you can see will be in trouble.

[Rogue Jedi]

John1352, on 16 July 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

Lots of people are talking about taking cover and avoiding the LRMs. In slower 100 ton mechs that often just gets you killed with very small amounts of damage. My recommendation is to walk forwards and unleash the dakka on the LRM boat/spotter. This is extra true when you're bringing something like 4 UAC5s. You will have twice or more the sustained DPS of the enemy mech and more armor, but you can't use it when you're hiding behind a rock.

this is worth a try if you can see the enemies, but often on Polar a lone Light Mech sneeks behind your team to provide the locks while the bots launch from cover,

if you can see the enemies then that is great advice but if you cannot all that will do is get you killed more quickly.

that is just a matter of if you are up against a semi organised enemy or a low tier Pick Up Group

[Void Angel]

Audacious Aubergine, on 16 July 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

try to avoid moving straight backwards, since the missiles may still track to you and just increase the distance they fly. Instead, try to move laterally once you think you're out of sight, this will increase the chance that the missiles will properly lose their lock.

Well, the missiles will lose lock no matter what - but when they do lose lock, they still continue on their last flight path, which means if they were going to come down at an angle and hit you on the downslope, they'll still be coming in on that angle, pointed at where you were standing when you got the lock.

So definitely, use lateral motion when hiding from LRMs.

[Void Angel]

John1352, on 16 July 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

Lots of people are talking about taking cover and avoiding the LRMs. In slower 100 ton mechs that often just gets you killed with very small amounts of damage. My recommendation is to walk forwards and unleash the dakka on the LRM boat/spotter. This is extra true when you're bringing something like 4 UAC5s. You will have twice or more the sustained DPS of the enemy mech and more armor, but you can't use it when you're hiding behind a rock.

You might get left by your teammates and focused by the enemies, in which case you may get 150 damage. If the enemies don't focus fire on you, anything you can see will be in trouble.

Rogue Jedi, on 16 July 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

this is worth a try if you can see the enemies, but often on Polar a lone Light Mech sneeks behind your team to provide the locks while the bots launch from cover,

if you can see the enemies then that is great advice but if you cannot all that will do is get you killed more quickly.

that is just a matter of if you are up against a semi organised enemy or a low tier Pick Up Group

That's another thing I like about Polar - it rewards teamwork, too. On the other hand, it also requires teamwork to a greater extent than other maps. Unfortunately, a lot of Lights are used to hiding behind the main body until the fight starts: they're "providing ECM cover," or just using the other 'mechs as meat shields so that they can attack damaged and distracted targets with less risk. In the Polar Highlands, you need your fast movers to be out and about, trying to find the enemy and combating enemy lights and spotters. Both of these are things that only they can do, and that are necessary for the team to use the map successfully. They don't need to be over the river, and through the woods, and halfway to Grandmother's house, but they should be at least a half-click out being eyes and ears for the rest of their team. That goes for fast Mediums, too.

Edited by Void Angel, 16 July 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

here's my own advice:

the lrm mad dogs were getting to me.

what did i do?

if you can't beat em join em.

i took out my awesome 8r and been melting players from behind rocks with it. it works wonderfully. is it cheap? yes.
does it make you feel accomplished? no. but you can only try and play "properly" for so long

especially when there's players running around with narc and ecm for the sole purpose of getting you wreckt or pinning you down so you can get swarmed by light mechs or can't keep up with your team.

if they're gonna do that then screw it. i drive a missile boat too. i blast em to bits with auto aim weapons.

[Cold Darkness]

polar highlands has alot of cover, its just not in the middle, which is where people always go for no good reason other then complaining about lrms.

[Void Angel]

Well, to be fair, they go to the middle because the map is so big; they're worried about playing accidental hide and seek, particularly when the mode is Assault.

[mailin]

Void Angel, on 16 July 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

Well, to be fair, they go to the middle because the map is so big; they're worried about playing accidental hide and seek, particularly when the mode is Assault.

Yep. Which is why it's crucial to have a scout (preferably with ECM) find their position, lock targets and use comms, or at the very least, in game text chat.

Always lock targets! It gets really frustrating when I'm obvserving a scout that isn't locking targets.

In this game teamwork really is the key. Also, notice where the lrms are coming from and try to get there to take the lurmer out. Granted that doesn't always work, but it does a lot of times.

On a side note, on certain maps UAVs can be hard to see in normal vision. This is especially true on Caustic Valley and Frozen City. In these instances switch vision mode to thermal (default key is 'H'). Once spotted let your friends know there is an enemy UAV up and the coords. Any one not directly engaging the enemy should try to take it out by shooting the bobbing light.

Edited by mailin, 17 July 2016 - 03:12 AM.

[Aerei]

As others have said, the Radar Deprivation mech module is one of the best ways to stop LRMs. To explain why, Radar Deprivation makes missiles lose lock as soon as the enemy loses a target lock on you. This can make useless cover (such as the slopes on polar highlands), useful, because you'll break LoS, and then simply need to move a little to the left or right to watch them hit the ground next to you.

Of course you need 15,000 GXP (in Pilot Skills), and 6,000,000 C-Bills (Mechlab -> Modules) just to get Radar Dep. LRMs do have another weakness, though, and that's the fact that LRMs cannot control where they hit. If you can't get into cover, torso twist your mech's body to hit less damaged, or less important parts. Remember, 80% health spread out evenly is negligible, but that same 80% where all the damage is on the CT is a problem.

As for big engines, bigger isn't always better. The weight of the engine scales considerably at certain numbers, rather than being a gradual increase. An XL engine on an assault is generally unwise, especially on something like a King Crab, and engines larger than Standard 300-310 start getting so heavy that they limit the weapons and armor you can equip--some of the strongest upsides of an assault mech.

And again, I can't say it enough--get comfortable with torso twisting. An assault mech, realistically, should be leading charges and it's going to get hit a lot as a result. If you can spread that damage, you'll be fine, or at least last longer so your team can focus down the people focusing you.

[Koniving]

Camm2310, on 15 July 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Just took out my KingCrab and did a total of 59 damage before getting taken out by LRMs on the new polar highlands. I've got the largest engine that I can fit into it, and it's still as slow as a stationary rock compared to my usual locust and raven builds. In a map so open, is there any way to counter LRMs? If the MM fails to place me in a lobby with ECMs, then I fail to see how I'm supposed to survive and do any damage against the new-coming cat+maddog lrm spam that this event brought on.

To also mention, long before the King Crab was put into MWO, I stated that the King Crab's greatest bane would be LRMs, due to the Battletech version's very short, but very wide and long "shell"-like body giving it a huge top-down profile.




Note left to right: Highlander. Black Knight. King Crab. ??? ??? ???

Notice the size.
Even in Alex's art (main concept artist for MWO's mechs).

Short, wide, long. Though not nearly as long. Many players speculated a King Crab like this would be virtually impossible to hit with regular weapons. o.O; I even came up with some hitbox ideas, where the "front" torsos would be the topside and the "rear" would be the weaker underside.

Anyway.
(Thank god it didn't end up like this)

(Sorry Bishop, but that thing would be a damn bullet magnet at PGI's idea for scale; though I'm glad your height scale is on par with where it should have been. Vision would have sucked though.).

Even in its current shape.


Its greatest weakness is LRMs.
Furthermore, rear torsos also include parts of the top of the mech, making it even weaker to LRMs than most players even realize.

Quite frankly, for this "Hangar Queen", far too many players are using this Area of Denial mech as a front line attacker.

Stay. Out. Of. Sight. Sneak up on enemies or guard something.
(Same is true for the Dire Wolf).