41 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Rampage, on 16 July 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

While I agree with what you say here, I do not think that it would really make any difference in people's reaction to their favorite toy getting nerfed. No matter what PGI does, someone complains. Even when they give free stuff for just playing a few matches, someone complains. If they have a sale, someone complains. If they buff something or nerf something, someone complains.

There is a trend here.

Yes, at least half the problems with MWO can be traced back directly to the player base.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 16 July 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Yes because nerfing mechs no one is playing (quickdraws) and mechs that are clearly NOT OP (locusts, Kodiak 2 and 4, Marauders) is somehow going to make other mechs better, increase diversity and help advance this balance that you speak of?

Quirks were supposed to be about making each mech and each variant have an equivalent value and usefulness (see Paul's comments and thread when PTS2 was a thing). Nerffing mechs that are in no way, shape or form OP does nothing to enhance their value or usefulness. It sure as heck doesn't help balance.

I can see an argument for buffing the agility of the PHX to make it "balanced" relative to the greater ruggedness of the BJ, but nerfing that ruggedness of the BJ at the same time destroys that balance. This is what they do, time and time again. It is PGI that is ruining balance not the players.

This.

And because what you say is logical, etc, it'll be conveniently ignored as not fitting the OPs agenda.

Call me crazy. Because personally, I thought having a fast, agile, and hard hitting, but fragile Assault mechs was kind of something different than the norm, big, fat and bulky ones with massive structure buffs.

Oh, and OP, not referring to the KDK3 which no one is complaining about getting nerfed (though the actual KDK3 will see little actual impact from those nerfs, jokes on you guys, lol).

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 16 July 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Could be solved with a two weight drop deck for qp. With a weight cap of 120 or 130 and you can't bring two mechs of the same class.

Don't say OMG no.
Love it, embrace it, promote it.
That or whine hard enough til PGI makes it so.



Oh and ummm information warfare?

[Yellonet]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 July 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

This.

And because what you say is logical, etc, it'll be conveniently ignored as not fitting the OPs agenda.

LOL what? What's my agenda, except for some sanity in the forums?
And no I didn't answer that post because I'm not defending specific changes, just pointing out that one must accept changes.
Concerning for example the BJ (which I play and like) they rarely in my experience lose an arm, so perhaps the arm quirks were a bit much, I don't know, but that could be the reasoning behind removing/toning down those quirks. I just think it's unfair to assume that there is no thought or reason behind a specific change just because you haven't seen/heard the reasoning behind the change.

Edited by Yellonet, 16 July 2016 - 07:50 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yellonet, on 16 July 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

LOL what? What's my agenda, except for some sanity in the forums?

Apparently your agenda is to attack everyone who is unhappy with the nerfs and paint them with a very general, very incorrect, brush. Since to not like seeing mechs carpeted bombed for no reason is apparently to "want everything to stay the same".

If not, you might want to clarify your OP a tad.

[Navid A1]

OP, You are just like a bot repeating and defending PGI blindly.
that or you are just an alt-account for someone.
You have no Opinion... you just repeat.

Do you remember the mini-map fiasco last month?... yeah, the one that even the almighty Russ admitted that it was a mistake literally 1 hour after patch?
You were the ONLY person here on the forums who were defending the decision no matter what:
take a look:

Yellonet, on 21 June 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

PGI, you probably knew the whiners would start when you took their minimap toy away, but you made the change anyway, that took guts and I think it's for the best in the long run.

Yes, the new minimap are currently more difficult to use in close range to manuever into exactly the right place to catch or avoid an enemy, but this was likely intended as information warfare can become more important now.

Now, why do I like the new minimap?

• We have new info on the mini map (mech types, requests) which wasn't available before.
  
• The minimap is now used for different information bits than what you can see directly and what the compass bar gives you.
  
• Players who have a bit of combat awareness has an advantage over simple dorito shooters.
  
• Players will need to help each other and spot enemies directly instead of hiding away and watching the map.
  
• TTK might go up as the minimap isn't as much of an help in direct combat.
  
• The lowest common denominator is raised and it actually takes some skill to use the information you have available in a good way.

PGI, please don't listen to the whiners about giving them the old map back, they obviously only think of themselves and short term, "Oh I had this, I can't lose what I had relied on for years!!"






This change really makes the game deeper and little less of a dumb find-dorito-on-map-and-shoot-it game.

I even hear whining that people don't know which way their mechs' legs are facing (hint: look at the compass bar).

If you can't play well without the old minimap, you are one of the lowest common denominator players, only relying on free and automatic info from the game instead of getting the "picture" for yourself. "My crutch is gone, I can't play now!"

Yellonet, on 21 June 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

PGI, please don't listen to these nubs. Give it a few weeks so that they may learn and appreciate the pros of this new map.
All this whining is just a sign that some are too dependant on the minimap.

Yellonet, on 21 June 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

It's obvious with all the whining going on that the old map was a H U G E crutch for a lot of players. Therefore it's dumbing down the game, the new map takes more skill to be used effectively. If the old map is reintroduced we are back to square one. I don't believe it's a good idea to let players choose this tbh.

Now tell me... what is your "opinion" about the current minimap?

Also...you can watch this to the end pls:

Spoiler

Edited by Navid A1, 16 July 2016 - 07:49 AM.

[Yellonet]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 July 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Oh, and OP, not referring to the KDK3 which no one is complaining about getting nerfed (though the actual KDK3 will see little actual impact from those nerfs, jokes on you guys, lol).

I can't remember ever complaining about the KDK...

[Rampancy]

Navid A1, on 16 July 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

Now tell me... what is your "opinion" about the current minimap?

Also...you can watch this to the end pls:

Spoiler

Current minimap is great, being simultaneously more like previous MW games and offering more information (weight class symbols).

Or is whining about the minimap still the current trendy thing for the community?

[Navid A1]

RampancyTW, on 16 July 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Current minimap is great, being simultaneously more like previous MW games and offering more information (weight class symbols).

Or is whining about the minimap still the current trendy thing for the community?

indeed. I agree. and we have that because the community protested for it.

Yet the OP was the only person defending the original broken one. I want him to see that he needs an opinion of his own... not blindly following everything that is being put on the table in front of him by PGI

[Yellonet]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 July 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

Apparently your agenda is to attack everyone who is unhappy with the nerfs and paint them with a very general, very incorrect, brush. Since to not like seeing mechs carpeted bombed for no reason is apparently to "want everything to stay the same".

If not, you might want to clarify your OP a tad.

Well, I'm just tired of people making quick assumptions and then going crazy on their own assumption.
First, there's no major game changing nerfs that I've seen. Second, it's partly this "for no reason" that I'm against. Just because you can't see the reason doesn't mean there isn't any. Sure, PGI is not good at communicating their reasoning behind specific changes, but that alone is not reason enough to just say that the changes are bad or without reason.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yellonet, on 16 July 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Well, I'm just tired of people making quick assumptions and then going crazy on their own assumption.
First, there's no major game changing nerfs that I've seen. Second, it's partly this "for no reason" that I'm against. Just because you can't see the reason doesn't mean there isn't any. Sure, PGI is not good at communicating their reasoning behind specific changes, but that alone is not reason enough to just say that the changes are bad or without reason.

OK. Gonna spell this simply.

Even if PGI has a "reason".....

taking a Middle of the road to good, but nowhere GREAT, like the Marauder and Blackjack have been, since well, MONTHS and then further nerfing them? To butcher the words of the great Samuel L Jackson.... if they had a reason, it apparently was a stupidazz reason.

And if PGI doesn't want people complaining, then maybe it's time to put their big boy pants on, and actually communicate. Use that Community Manager person. Etc.

Then their problems are (reasonably) solved.

[Yellonet]

Navid A1, on 16 July 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

indeed. I agree. and we have that because the community protested for it.

Yet the OP was the only person defending the original broken one. I want him to see that he needs an opinion of his own... not blindly following everything that is being put on the table in front of him by PGI

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5292488

What I liked about the "too zoomed out" minimap was that it deprived players of the IMO too detailed info and made players have to rely more on actually spotting enemies and having some situation awareness skill instead of just watching a minimap to get all info, I'm hoping that information warfare gets fleshed out and as a part of this the minimap gets nerfed unless you have a scout mech or are near a Cyclops or some such mechanic.

[Yellonet]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 July 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

OK. Gonna spell this simply.

Even if PGI has a "reason".....

taking a Middle of the road to good, but nowhere GREAT, like the Marauder and Blackjack have been, since well, MONTHS and then further nerfing them? To butcher the words of the great Samuel L Jackson.... if they had a reason, it apparently was a stupidazz reason.

And if PGI doesn't want people complaining, then maybe it's time to put their big boy pants on, and actually communicate. Use that Community Manager person. Etc.

Then their problems are (reasonably) solved.

Agreed that PGI need to communicate more, alot more. Sure BJ's and MAD's perhaps weren't great when comparing to all mechs, but, and I've said this before, perhaps these mechs are in fact better than other mechs of the same size and weight and they are taken down a peg just to get a more even playing field. These are things that are difficult if not impossible to tell just based on meeting mechs in random matches, but if you have the big picture, that PGI maybe (don't laugh) do, they might see a pattern.
I want better balance mech for mech, I'm just hoping that this is what PGI is trying to achieve.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yellonet, on 16 July 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Agreed that PGI need to communicate more, alot more. Sure BJ's and MAD's perhaps weren't great when comparing to all mechs, but, and I've said this before, perhaps these mechs are in fact better than other mechs of the same size and weight and they are taken down a peg just to get a more even playing field. These are things that are difficult if not impossible to tell just based on meeting mechs in random matches, but if you have the big picture, that PGI maybe (don't laugh) do, they might see a pattern.
I want better balance mech for mech, I'm just hoping that this is what PGI is trying to achieve.

That's great and noble. Insulting/attacking and demeaning others who don't have as rosy an outlook toward PGI anymore? Not really the best way to go about White Knighting for their cause, especially when it is (intentionally or not) based on some very inaccurate assumptions about said people.

[rolly]

Alistair Winter, on 16 July 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

" teams would bring them out of their own volition, rather than because of restrictions."

This is true role warfare. Players collaborating, playing to their strengths and bringing in mechs that aid teamwork instead of what isn't nerfed, or simply hampers their ability to be an effective part of a team.

Instead of giving us the tools and mechanics, we get finite adjustments in an attempt to compensate that do not add to the game's overall goal or flavour of each mech.

[Yellonet]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 July 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

That's great and noble. Insulting/attacking and demeaning others who don't have as rosy an outlook toward PGI anymore? Not really the best way to go about White Knighting for their cause, especially when it is (intentionally or not) based on some very inaccurate assumptions about said people.

Isn't that what you people do around here? And all I said was that people are crying.
Furthermore as this game is the way it is it will never be perfectly balanced, and changes will have to be made from time to time, it's just the way it has to be, if a person can't accept that this is the wrong game for that person.
And if the crying is really about PGI's poor communication (which it should be), then THAT is what should be addressed by the community instead of nitpicking every little change being made and insulting PGI staff which will make them talk to us even less.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Alistair Winter, on 16 July 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

I would like for light mechs not to be underpowered, at least. How about that?

PGI isn't going to stop nerfing light mechs untill heavy mechs are 80% of the queue and make up half of the teams in the solo queue. gg 3-3-3-3.

Any light that your average player can do well in is probably OP to be honest. Lights are fragile, require intimate knowledge of each map's terrain, situational awareness sufficient to know where the enemy is, where your allies are, and how their movements are likely to go and then you have to plan accordingly while being able to adapt at a moment's notice.

In short, light mechs are dark souls mode.

xXBagheeraXx, on 16 July 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

My biggest fear in this game is not the 100 ton KD3, or the Madcat/blackknight/stormcrow "meta" monsteres, It is the Jenner pilot that knows what hes doing. Short of getting lucky leg shots, or him running into a dedicated light mech killer that thing can solo any mech in this game. Especially oxides, or clanIIC jenners with all those dam SRM's.

Part of that is residual fear from closed beta I imagine. Also... sorry about the 6srm6 splat jenner IICs... I kinda popularized that a bit...

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 16 July 2016 - 08:36 AM.

[DaZur]

In many ways I agree with the OP...

On TT, in novel and in lore, the BattleTech universe is rife with imbalance and inequities. That said, typically where one item is OP in some way, it's offset with some punitive mechanic to mitigate.

Because this game is a competitive game and it's inching toward e-sport garbage every day... We are going to see this game, all weapons and mechanics become more and more bland in the name of equity and balance.

I rue the day PGI veered away from MMO to shooter...

[White Bear 84]

El Bandito, on 16 July 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

I have given up trying to divine Paul's mind.

Most of this patches changes to quirks seem unnecessary. I mean, fine the blackjack used to have some kind of advantage.. ..but pushing it down to dragonslayer level, while still leaving underwhelming chassis like the Vindicator untouched, makes NO sense whatsoever. And the quickdraw?! I still refuse to pilot them ffs..

[Bishop Steiner]

Yellonet, on 16 July 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Isn't that what you people do around here? And all I said was that people are crying.
Furthermore as this game is the way it is it will never be perfectly balanced, and changes will have to be made from time to time, it's just the way it has to be, if a person can't accept that this is the wrong game for that person.
And if the crying is really about PGI's poor communication (which it should be), then THAT is what should be addressed by the community instead of nitpicking every little change being made and insulting PGI staff which will make them talk to us even less.

Ah, "you people", more us vs them mentality!! Priceless!

Narcissistic Martyr, on 16 July 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Also... sorry about the 6srm6 splat jenner IICs... I kinda popularized that a bit...

Cuz every single Light Comp Guy didn't see that build the moment the Jenny II was announced?

(In a game where the Comp /Meta minds first reflex is to MaxiBoat....EVERYTHING? I've (questionably) taken credit for a few things over time...but IDK...this one seems a bit of a stretch, bro.)