32 replies to this topic

[Pht]

In reply to the first post:

Going with a Weapons Fire Resolution system that would let them control how various behaviors would effect how well or badly your 'mech can hit the target you're indicating would make it easy as pie to make jumpsniping what it should be - a desperation tactic. Doable, but DARN hard, and you can forget picking what part of a target you want to hit and reliably hitting it.

In tabletop terms, you have to incur +6 on top of anything else to do a fire of opportunity shot while jumping... that's a STEEP modifier.

As far as third person view; it can be done well and balanced vs first person. Just don't render anything that the 'mechs visual sensors cannot see (targets AND environment), wireframe non-visual sensor contacts variably based upon quality of sensor contact, and you have parity.

Edited by Pht, 28 December 2011 - 06:10 PM.

[GaussDragon]

Rhinehart, on 28 December 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

I don't think this will be a problem. I'm betting both jumping and damage taken while in flight will work a lot differently in MWO.

I'm willing to agree. I'm willing to bet the mechanics are going to different in such a way that jump jetting won't be so fancy-free and that there will be some inherent drawbacks to it.

Pht, on 28 December 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

In reply to the first post:

Going with a Weapons Fire Resolution system that would let them control how various behaviors would effect how well or badly your 'mech can hit the target you're indicating would make it easy as pie to make jumpsniping what it should be - a desperation tactic. Doable, but DARN hard, and you can forget picking what part of a target you want to hit and reliably hitting it.

In tabletop terms, you have to incur +6 on top of anything else to do a fire of opportunity shot while jumping... that's a STEEP modifier.

As far as third person view; it can be done well and balanced vs first person. Just don't render anything that the 'mechs visual sensors cannot see (targets AND environment), wireframe non-visual sensor contacts variably based upon quality of sensor contact, and you have parity.

That's one way to balance it better. I'll have to see how it all plays out come gametime or beta time (crosses fingers) to see how they struck the balance.

[Demise]

Hi,
Look I think there is a very simple solution which I imagine also more closely resembles the usage of jump jets in canon and in the table top game. You see, I believe that jump jets were implemented to assist movement over difficult terrain or buildings, or to simply allow a mech to move further in a turn than they would by walking. I could be wrong, and people more versed in these aspect are invited to correct me.

So... the simple solution is to make JJs thrust forward as well as upward. It's feasible, it's logical, it's easy, and poptarting would either vanish completely or become a very difficult art to master...

[shr3dh3d]

This may be a strange solution, and i'm no canon buff, but here's my suggestion: So real lasers become increasingly unfocused and diffuse the farther the emitted light is from its source, so why not make this true for lasers in MWO? If i remember correctly, the large IS lasers in MW4 had a range of 800m. So in MWO, they still have that range, but past 400m (just throwing out a number) the damage of the laser begins to evenly taper off till it's "0" damage at 800m. Same goes for actual artillery. it follows an artillery trajectory that eventually falls to the ground, so MWO ACs and Guass could have a max effective range that tapers to "0", or if they can be programmed to follow an artillery trajectory, even better. This could at least greatly reduce the instances of laser-boat sniping from a km away...

[UncleKulikov]

Wouldn't removing the 3rd person camera solve lots of these issues, simply?

[GaussDragon]

UncleKulikov, on 30 December 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

Wouldn't removing the 3rd person camera solve lots of these issues, simply?

The title says "innovative ways" not crude ones

[Dlardrageth]

GaussDragon, on 30 December 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

The title says "innovative ways" not crude ones

Well, the "crude" part is debatable though. I mean, seriously, what would we need a 3rd-person.view for? Don't tell me you cannot steer a Mech in 1st-person-view. Well, maybe, I wouldn't know, but I myself had never issues with the "cockpit view" in the MW games. I'd actually opt for it even if it brings some disadvantages (which it did in MW4 to some degree) just for the immersion factor.

Speaking only for myself, I could live quite nicely without a 3rd person view option in game at all. Well, perhaps for a post-match replay or something, there it could be useful.

[GaussDragon]

Dlardrageth, on 31 December 2011 - 03:20 AM, said:

Speaking only for myself, I could live quite nicely without a 3rd person view option in game at all. Well, perhaps for a post-match replay or something, there it could be useful.

In MW4 I was used to using first person for the longest time before I discovered sniping, then I used 3rd person for all its tactical advantages. TBH I won't miss it if it's not in MWO. But I was suggesting more 'innovative' mechanics than simply 'FFP = on'. The biggest problem in the 1PV vs 3PV debate is that the people who want immersion (1PV) want immersion without being at a disadvantage to people using 3PV who aren't as concerned about immersion per se and are more focused on using all the advantages at their disposal. It's a sort of 'have your cake and eat it too' that a lot of the ongoing arguments here boil down to. But for me, personally, I'm not attached 3PV so much that'll I'll feel the need to have a brain aneurysm if it's gone. It's by no means a game breaker for me.

Edited by GaussDragon, 31 December 2011 - 11:40 AM.

[Raeven]

Well, take away the crosshairs. About the only thing you should be able to do in 3rd person is lock onto a target with missles for indirect fire. Give the pilot a square more than half the size of the hud to lock on with missles with, but no other reference for center of your targetting reticule. If weapons are blind fire from 3rd person view, you eliminate jump sniping.

The same goes for taking away the crosshair with zoom. Leave them in the game, but take away a players ability to target anything other than missles in that mode. Takes away the "sniper" aspect of the game while leaving precise long range shots possible to the more skilled players.

[Barantor]

I thought the devs said it would all be in first person already?

One reason it worked so well in MW4 was because of the overall lack of good terrain on the maps. There were often large swaths of flatish land with ridges around them. I am guessing with this new engine and terrain modeling we will see less opportunity to do this as effectively anyway.

[GaussDragon]

Barantor, on 31 December 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

I thought the devs said it would all be in first person already?

Correct. It's in the FAQ.

Barantor, on 31 December 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

I am guessing with this new engine and terrain modeling we will see less opportunity to do this as effectively anyway.

You're probably right.

[plodder]

You know Gauss Taggin, or Auss Dragon, You really should think through things before posting. What lightweight ideas maybe welter weight?

No seriously, awesome post! I see you want critical mechanic hitches, not glitches, from P.A.B's (formally-YOU) LoL

[GaussDragon]

Thanks Plodder! Though I have to ask, how did you manage to necro this thread? This thing has managed to get revived twice now lol. I think it has run its course, especially since one of the dev blogs regarding LOS radar came out.