19 replies to this topic

[Rhayn]

Are clans still OP? If 2 units of the exact same strength were to face each other in CW, which would be more likely to win? I heard they did this sort of thing an about 90%of wins were awarded to clan I love immersion in games so am looking to maybe become a loyalist, but if I'm going to get steamrolled in CW due to my faction then that wont be fun for me. Also, clan mechs are god-like compared to IS in quick play, stormcrows, maddogs, direwhale, gargoyle, timber, jaguar, artic cheetah etc all seem like the better choice over the lack luster IS counterparts. Who even bothers with the kintaros anymore? Any ways, i currently have 8 IS mechs and no clan mechs anymore, so will probably be forced to side with IS anyway.

[justcallme A S H]

Ah this old chestnut, again.

You FP as a PUG vs a 12-man, you're likely going to be having a tough game, that's a given.

IS vs Clan - there is no specific answer. the only point is play to the strengths on the map at hand. Pushing as a team even in joker mech builds will often far better than a team that is spread out across 3-4 grid squares.

Play to strengths for the side you are on, win.

That's the answer to "which side is more OP than the other".

[MischiefSC]

Depends on the map but it's pretty even.

Wall of KDK3s on Viti8is a stone cold beast however.

[Kael Posavatz]

Couple of issues.

First the same assets (Mechs, weapons) being used for two different games. One game has mixed tech, the other does not. Usually in QP if you are in a team facing a team (or just coordinated pugs rather than a dozen solos) the shortfalls in one set of tech are balanced by the presence of 'other' tech in the team.

Also, in QP the maps are generally open enough that you can play long or mobile if you have Clan-tech, or close-tank if you have IS.

The FW maps generally favor the IS with close-action in constricted terrain, and even where terrain is open, the objectives are close together. Both of these play against the Clan's two big advantages (range and mobility). Vitric Forge is terrible for clans as most fighting is up-close brawl that works against them, and it is very, very hot for mechs that are already burdened with high-heat weapons.

Or at least that's my opinion anyway. That it is less about one side or the other and more about the conditions under which they fight.

Teamwork is, of course, very much OP, but I'm not sure how you'd go about balancing this.

[justcallme A S H]

Given Vitric is the same heat as Sulferous, I don't see much of a difference other than Sulfer is a big longer ranges, depending on where on the map you're talking about - but its marginal differences at best, as it depends on what the other side do for the most part.

That said on Vitric if you pick your attack point correctly and use Clan mobility properly, you're not really at a disadvantage when attacking as you can use the mobility to devastating effect.. Def as clan is no different to IS either.

I mean we are Merc, we change regularly... It doesn't matter which side of the fence I am on, my game results are roughly the same either time either in a team drop or PUG drops.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 15 July 2016 - 05:59 PM.

[habu86]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Wall of KDK3s on Viti8is a stone cold beast however.

Wall of dakka assaults on Vitric in general is a massive problem to deal with, if they possition correctly; still traumatized by running into 8 dakka Maulers on that map. But honestly that's more a map design issue than a tech base issue as attackers can be funneled into some murderous choke points, while defenders can usually position to benefit from better fire lanes and slight elevation advantages.

At any rate, balance is about as close as it's ever been and both tech bases have options for brawling, midrange, or long-range engagements; they key, however, is to appreciate the differences between the IS and Clan meta for each role.

[JasonIIC]

It's all about the tactics. I'm a clan loyalist, and I've seen teams rolled on both sides, and I've never felt it was the tech. It's always the tactics and the coordination. Any chassis can work, you just need to know what to do with it.

Take the Atlas. You don't see them in FP very often because they're slower and take up a lot of tonnage. Then one day we're kicking in on Sulferous and 12 Atlases (atlasai? Atlai ? nvm) walk nonchalantly over the hill and wipe us, then pick through our base at their leisure. It was beautiful. And horrifying. And rad.

[Baulven]

Simple way to look at it

Clans are better than IS at long range
IS is better than clans at medium range
Both are about the same at knife fight distance.

Knife fight builds trump preferred range. You do more damage quicker and usually more accurately than either other option.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

It took me 14 matches to complete the personal challenge on my IS account.
It took me 13 matches to complete the personal challenge on my Clan account.

Clans OP

[Count Zero74]

IS is obviously way OP, why else would they have to nerf IS 2 patches in a row now ?

[Baulven]

Count Zero74, on 16 July 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

IS is obviously way OP, why else would they have to nerf IS 2 patches in a row now ?

Because the dartboard of balance hides the lack of movement and fixes that should be occurring instead.

Every map could have every error discovered in a day if they have a 5mc bounty per bug, hit box issue, and problem detected. Submitted to the map team it could probably be fixed within 3 months, 6 at the most.

It distracts from the tank TDM grind as people try to make sense of nonsensical changes that either go to far, are token in nature or just plain baffling.

In short it's because PGI wants everyone to stop focusing on the issues so they can push more mechpacks.

[Spetulhu]

theJason, on 15 July 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

It's all about the tactics. I'm a clan loyalist, and I've seen teams rolled on both sides, and I've never felt it was the tech. It's always the tactics and the coordination. Any chassis can work, you just need to know what to do with it.

I've never fought on the Clan side in FP, but I'd have to agree with this. The team that can better take advantage of their strenghts is usually better off. It's not "OP clan tech" if we lose, it's the clanners using their speed to keep us off balance and maybe split up the team so we get stalled/isolated and picked off a few at a time. If we win it's because our drop leader had a good grasp of how to deploy us and the ability to tell us how to fight. If both teams are led well the battle will often be very close, maybe down to one single mistake.

A team using sub-optimal mechs could easily trounce random rabble in "meta" mechs - as long as they know how to coordinate and use those mechs.

[Rhayn]

Great, thanks for the replies. Good to know that the community thinks there is moderate balance

[justcallme A S H]

The Nerf Bat, on 16 July 2016 - 01:17 AM, said:

It took me 14 matches to complete the personal challenge on my IS account.
It took me 13 matches to complete the personal challenge on my Clan account.

Clans OP

It took you more than 7 matches?

PSR OP

[AnarchyBurger]

Welp as a pure pugger here I recently switched from Steiner to JF after buying enough mechs.... And from what I can gather
-Team will most often beat pug or half team
-Major team vs major team is depends on who is better+map, blah, etc.
-Clan pug or weak team will more than often beat IS pug or weak team.

As a IS pug I had maybe a 30% win rate? It was pretty frustrating, kinda like playing with one arm tied behind your back. Moving to JF got what seems to be at least a 60% win rate with pugs if not higher.

Personally I think clan mechs are a hair better than IS with a few exceptions... And with quirk nerfs they have become more and more irrelevant.

[Rhayn]

Yeah, just read about the nerfs that are about to hit IS mechs

[Monkey Lover]

I'm seeing a nice mix of mechs on the tournament. Mostly people taking the best of both.

Clans are still showing up little more than IS. Balance is a lot better than it used to be.

Camm2310, on 16 July 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

Yeah, just read about the nerfs that are about to hit IS mechs

They got to make sure no one uses the blackjack anymore. 5 nerfs wasn't enough haha

[Tarl Cabot]

Team play (unit or pugs) vs skittles scatter as they hit the ground is OP...

With that said, scout pugs vs scout pugs, the IS comes up on the short side in one way. All the Clans need to do is remove a side torso on most IS mechs to kill them as they use isXL engines...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 16 July 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Count Zero74, on 16 July 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

IS is obviously way OP, why else would they have to nerf IS 2 patches in a row now ?

Last 2 patches? They've been nerfing the IS every patch since the last battle of TUKAYYID.(which the clans won)
Let's not mention the clan buffs.

R31Nismoid, on 16 July 2016 - 04:34 AM, said:

It took you more than 7 matches?

PSR OP

Yep. Basic timberwolf on clan account and alcohol affected piloting on IS account

[Vonbach]

Fw, the only winning move is not to play.