183 replies to this topic

[Antares102]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 July 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

Possibly. But the actions could have been taken at other individuals behest or spurring. Several individuals had beef with Scout. *shrugs* It's all speculation, ATM.

But here's one thing..not that I agree with it fully, but: If you put yourself into position to Moderate a Community, you largely are agreeing to give up your freedom for the "greater good". You can't push agendas, platforms, etc. It's one (of many) reason I would never take a position as a Mod. I feel having the freedom to cry "bullcrap" is a much greater "duty" to the community than offering to police it. Mind you, some are better suited to be the Police. But what you don't want, in any society, is the Police trying to set policy.

Still it leaves a very foul taste if people actually trying to improve stuff are just discarded.

Edited by Antares102, 17 July 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

cazidin, on 17 July 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Alright. New plan. Everybody go to Twitter. Ask them to reinstate Derek and Andi. Don't be a jerk about it but express your displeasure at the situation as best as you can in under 140 characters. Make it very clear that we will not purchase any additional mech packs, savage crate keys, etc until the situation is resolved amicably. Please do cancel your pre-orders if you have them now. This is simply unacceptable and once again PGI has failed us at communication. Now we lost the one guy who actually spoke with us and he didn't even get paid!

Don't think Derek would actually take the job again, and it's much better/easier to just get refunds for your mech packs and not give PGI money in the future. If PGI doesn't pay attention to their official forums and I have to use my twitter to talk to them, then screw them lol.

[Antares102]

cazidin, on 17 July 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Alright. New plan. Everybody go to Twitter. Ask them to reinstate Derek and Andi. Don't be a jerk about it but express your displeasure at the situation as best as you can in under 140 characters. Make it very clear that we will not purchase any additional mech packs, savage crate keys, etc until the situation is resolved amicably. Please do cancel your pre-orders if you have them now. This is simply unacceptable and once again PGI has failed us at communication. Now we lost the one guy who actually spoke with us and he didn't even get paid!

I dont think this will work b/c hireing and fireing people has a lot to do with authority which should not be questioned even in such a small case as forum moderators. I dont think PGI will react to your tweets in the way you want it.
If they were forgiving they'd never fired the mods in the first place.

Edited by Antares102, 17 July 2016 - 10:19 AM.

[cazidin]

Telemachus Rheade, on 17 July 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Don't think Derek would actually take the job again, and it's much better/easier to just get refunds for your mech packs and not give PGI money in the future. If PGI doesn't pay attention to their official forums and I have to use my twitter to talk to them, then screw them lol.

Maybe not. However I think we deserve an official response from either Tina or Russ and, if Derek IS gone? Then we need somebody who engages us on the forums and addresses our grievances. Again. Don't send them hate Tweets but this is a very wrong direction. This is another Mini-Map incident.

Edited by cazidin, 17 July 2016 - 10:19 AM.

[DAYLEET]

We already live without a community manager or any kind of PGI employees, lets see how it goes without mods.

Antares102, on 17 July 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

doh! its fixed now LOL.

Edited by DAYLEET, 17 July 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[Antares102]

DAYLEET, on 17 July 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

.... PIG employees....

Edited by Antares102, 17 July 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[TLBFestus]

Before the new overlords lock/delete this thread, I better get my two bits in.

I've always said that Forum Mods job #1 is to stay neutral. Once a bias in any direction presents it'self they lose credibility and they lose "the high ground".

Once that thread got rolling, I thought to myself, "Well Scout better realize that this is a death-trap and I think he did cus he's staying away from it now". Unfortunately, the very next page there was another post by him. At that point I was pretty damned sure that this was how it was going to play out.

Sorry to see him make that mistake and take his lumps, but it was inevitable. Well, at least we saw that the CM does something though, right guys?

Once last question though, do you think he voluntarily stepped down or was it commanded from above? If the latter, it's a new low for these forums seeing about the only Mod that had some popularity go down, even though it was basically "falling on their own sword".

I guess if you want to look at it differently, it's brings balance into the universe. First they got rid of a very unpopular CM/mod (pendulum swings left....) and now a pretty decent Mod makes an error in judgement and they are removed (pendulum swings back....).

Deleting the thread (if it's truly gone) is just wrong IMHO, but then again opinions must be "steered'away from upsetting thoughts. George Orwell would be proud.

Edited by TLBFestus, 17 July 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Elizander]

No wonder their names were not green anymore.

[JaxRiot]

cazidin, on 17 July 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Maybe not. However I think we deserve an official response from either Tina or Russ and, if Derek IS gone? Then we need somebody who engages us on the forums and addresses our grievances. Again. Don't send them hate Tweets but this is a very wrong direction. This is another Mini-Map incident.

Derek was definitely removed from his Moderator position. He posted in this very thread on the second page, 9th post down.

TLBFestus, on 17 July 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

Once last question though, do you think he voluntarily stepped down or was it commanded from above? If the latter, it's a new low for these forums seeing about the only Mod that had some popularity go down, even though it was basically "falling on their own sword".

He said that he was Punished

PIG is now terminating community building mods who work for free.... amazing times we live in

Dont forget to buy a Mech Pack

Edited by JaxRiot, 17 July 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Maybe this is the actual AI they are working on? For moderation and not a game feature?


There are plenty of games without official forums. I'm surprised they haven't shut this down and handed over official status to a masochist who would be it for them.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 17 July 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

They need to take the sane approach like CCP does with their mods and GMs and give the individual an entirely new forum account just for DMing/modding/everything official.

This way they can still post as normal human beings and have opinions, and still moderate and post using an anonymous forum account with a different name.

Make the Moderator Accounts thematic, so for example if I became a moderator, I'd keep this name with no one the wiser and that fact would NOT be promoted, but I'd be given a new Moderator account, like "ComGuard Karanau"

Edited by Xocoyol Zaraoul, 17 July 2016 - 10:42 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 17 July 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

Ahem! That was only valid in the few years after WW2, and all due to what is termed Victor's Justice. Fast forward a few decades later and it is a very valid defense for several people who otherwise should be behind bars today. It's just a matter of who you were or who you were obeying.

Don't be fooled.

Worse, it's really a matter of social justice, and public outcry. Nuremberg was to satiate the public more than about actually delivering justice. Handy political opportunity to further agendas, that for once dovetailed with some actual justice.

[Darth Hotz]

I expected a reaction like this. If a moderator loses his neutral attittude, because he is also a player and frustrated like many players by the lack of communication from PGI, it is human behavior but still unprofessional.

However, the forum now lost the only two moderators that were actually talking to the community and I have no faith that the invisible community manager will finally start doing her job. Maybe she is too busy, because she works as the quality manager too? This would explain a lot...

Edited by Darth Hotz, 17 July 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Antares102, on 17 July 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

Still it leaves a very foul taste if people actually trying to improve stuff are just discarded.

I'm not arguing or denying that. But if your social justice warrior at work consistently oversteps or ignore his employers rules and policies, they are still within their right to let him go.

I actually had conversations with Derek when he first took three position, about my concern he was going put himself in an untenable position. I'm sad I was right. But PGI had been crystal clear the last few months that they neither need, not want our input.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 July 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

Worse, it's really a matter of social justice, and public outcry. Nuremberg was to satiate the public more than about actually delivering justice. Handy political opportunity to further agendas, that for once dovetailed with some actual justice.

Have you read Hermann Gorings biography? Probably the best book I've read in years.

[Elizander]

Procurator Derek, on 17 July 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Exactly. You can't do anything like that. I take full responsibility for the punishment i received.


I'm just going to be done with the forums. Too much drama, too many problems, and so on and so forth.

Like meteorol said, positioned myself wrong.

Going to be done with being around here. Maybe just stop even coming here much save for updates and whatnot.

Meanwhile I'm off to go play in better communities with actual feedback and more development at a faster place.

In short, took the position I shouldn't have.

Have a good day, and I'll possibly talk to you in the future on another day, month, or year. The Twitter I don't know what to do with it, maybe you guys can make a thread and I'll read and keep trying to communicate. maybe.

<o

Thanks to you guys for dealing with the spam threads I reported and keeping the presence up here in the forums. Your mod efforts will not go unappreciated. o7

Bishop Steiner, on 17 July 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

I'm not arguing or denying that. But if your social justice warrior at work consistently oversteps or ignore his employers rules and policies, they are still within their right to let him go.

I actually had conversations with Derek when he first took three position, about my concern he was going put himself in an untenable position. I'm sad I was right. But PGI had been crystal clear the last few months that they neither need, not want our input.

Being a forum mod for a community you care for is often a difficult thing. You might sometimes feel that you can do more, but not really allowed to do so. :3

Edited by Elizander, 17 July 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[meteorol]

TLBFestus, on 17 July 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

Before the new overlords lock/delete this thread, I better get my two bits in.

I've always said that Forum Mods job #1 is to stay neutral. Once a bias in any direction presents it'self they lose credibility and they lose "the high ground".

Once that thread got rolling, I thought to myself, "Well Scout better realize that this is a death-trap and I think he did cus he's staying away from it now". Unfortunately, the very next page there was another post by him. At that point I was pretty damned sure that this was how it was going to play out.

Thats how i feel aswell. I don't get the outrage towards PGI specifically though. All the "yeah that's another downfall of PGI, fits them, wallet vote" and so on. I'm really not sure any other company would have handled a volunteer mod breaking their rules much different.

He could have asked for permission to create an alt account to post stuff like that. He apparently didn't, or he did and they don't allow it. If they don't, that's their thing to decide, whether we like it or not. Even if we think the rule is stupid, and even if other companies handle it differently (CCP allegedly, mentiond by someone) that still doesn't put a volunteer Mod into the position to break a rule.

Something like that can't be justified by arguments like "he does it for free" or " he always was fair and reasonable" because that is irrelevant to the specific transgression of his responsibility.

Like i mentioned before, i don't see other companies handling things like this much differently, hence i can't understand nor support the PGI specific hate coming up over this.

Edited by meteorol, 17 July 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Elizander]

meteorol, on 17 July 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Thats how i feel aswell. I don't get the outrage towards PGI specifically though. All the "yeah that's another downfall of PGI, fits them, wallet vote" and so one. I'm really not sure any other company would have handled a volunteer mod breaking their rules much different.

He could have asked for permission to create an alt account to post stuff like that. He apparently didn't, or he did and they don't allow it. If they don't, that's their thing to decide, whether we like it or not. Even if we think the rule is stupid, and even if other companies handle it differently (CCP allegedly, mentiond by someone) that still doesn't put a volunteer Mod into the position to break a rule.

Something like that can't be justified by arguments like "he does it for free" or " he always was fair and reasonable" because that is irrelevant to the specific transgression of his responsibility.

Like i mentioned before, i don't see other companies handling things like this much differently, hence i can't understand nor support the PGI specific hate coming up over this.

Honestly there are just a lot of people here who have frustration built-up over a long period of time. More casual players like myself who pop in and pop out aren't affected as much by the supposed lack of communication and action on player feedback or the random nerf here and there. I don't give myself any importance here and I don't believe that me being here or not affects anything.

Once you're already strung up and tense, any little thing will piss you off. There are things that PGI do that do upset me (like that tournament setup), but I don't let it bother me for more than a day and just let it be if nothing is done about it.

Sometimes people just have to accept how things are and keep shooting mechs or just do something else and chose to stop being 'free content' for other players in the game. I mean some of us are hundreds or thousands of dollars in the game, but you already got the most out of that content (hopefully). I mean I have hundreds of dollars worth of skins in Dota 2 but I haven't played it since they changed clients :3

Edited by Elizander, 17 July 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Kalleballe]

At least now I will not feel bad in the slightest for taking the statement "free to play" as just that.

Oh well, learnt a new word at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grifter

[Mudhutwarrior]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 July 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

Worse, it's really a matter of social justice, and public outcry. Nuremberg was to satiate the public more than about actually delivering justice. Handy political opportunity to further agendas, that for once dovetailed with some actual justice.

Don't forget Ezra Pound. They could not put him on trial so they locked him up in St. Elizabeth's in DC. Same location now Homeland Security Headquarters. Cannot make this sh## up.