76 replies to this topic

[Dingo Battler]

...and by that extension, the fact that matches are 12v12, and not 8v8. It takes exponentially longer to fill up each additional player slot.

Wait times are minimum 3 minutes these days, which is basically the MM searching within your tier the 1st minute, 1 tier beyond the second, and 2 at the third minute. This means that each tier's population is already too small.

all the whines and complaints about puglandia, etc. are caused by this, in addition to very mismatched matches. There is simply not enought players to support a true tier system with 24 players matched completely by their skill.

beyond that are game-modes. I don't think (pls pls!) PGI is stupid. If they added solaris, the normal population will dip further, and the quality of games. Single player will all but destroy the multi-player aspect for months, as everyone will play SP rather than normal games. I think this is the reason single player is always "soon™"

IDK, I think we should go back to 8v8. Will open up a lot more that PGI can do.

[FupDup]

As a note, PGI should also restore Spacebucks and EcksPee earnings to what they were before 12v12, since the 12v12 patch nerfed both of them.

[Hit the Deck]

I don't think that I have 3 minutes of waiting time for a drop in QP on average (it's less than that, probably 1-2 mins). I do pick all servers though.

[nehebkau]

Well,
Population is a huge problem -- lots of things have been driving people away. I suspect we will have more tomorrow when they encounter a ~130 kph 40 ton viper with 10 smpls shooting their back. But I have liked the 4 vs 4 of scouting much more than the 12 vs 12 and liked 8 vs 8 far more than 12 vs 12. As far as matches are concerned -- it may make things better it may make them worse. A lot of the problem stems from PGI not taking into account the types of mechs the players are dropping in for a specific match. If your tier 1 is in a spider 5v and your tier 5s are in direwolves and you are facing the other team where their tier 1 is in a timberwolf -- expect a lopsided match regardless of 8v8, 12v12 or 30v30.

... but it would improve wait times.

Edited by nehebkau, 18 July 2016 - 07:39 PM.

[Charlie Grant]

I only use NA server and I rarely require three minutes to match (prime time matches are often found in 10-30 seconds). I do like OP's comment on the management's likely weighing of new game modes against their unintended effect of spreading the player population into more separate bins. They seem keenly aware of this complication and always want to err on the side of shorter wait times.

[BLOOD WOLF]

And how high does the population need to be to solve or relieve this issue?

[Juodas Varnas]

The lack of Quadrupeds is the REAL problem.

[El Bandito]

I also advocate bringing back 8v8 for Solo-Q. Wrote a thread about it in 2014.

http://mwomercs.com/...ormance-issues/

TTK, MM, and FPS will all benefit from lesser numbers.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 July 2016 - 07:57 PM.

[Roland Skinner]

I almost always get matches within 60s, usually faster, but I deliberately pick weight classes to get fast games.

I don't think player population is the _entire_ problem, but the OP is right that the player population is a huge constraint on the game. Just about every proposed change with respect to faction warfare or game modes _has_ to be considered in the light to what it will do to the MM queues.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Roland Skinner, on 18 July 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

I almost always get matches within 60s, usually faster, but I deliberately pick weight classes to get fast games.

I don't think player population is the _entire_ problem, but the OP is right that the player population is a huge constraint on the game. Just about every proposed change with respect to faction warfare or game modes _has_ to be considered in the light to what it will do to the MM queues.

Number one we have to realize what population has on the effect of the game. The game can only have 100 players and still have the same issues.

When people go to drop the game finds them and puts them where they are needed(in some cases where they are wanted). Of course it can fluctuate and their is a mathematical probability that during wait that you could wait longer than 15 minuets buts its unlikely.

No game will ever get around having really poor wait times, its always a mix of both.

Its like when i use to play SC2 i would end up waiting a few minutes in diamond tier even though their was a high number of players playing the game.

There are more factors that can come into play than I have fingers. However It doesn't help to have conversations about effects that dont have much impact on the game Yea i double posted




Looks like I am back folks and these types threads never end.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 18 July 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[KHETTI]

8v8 in QP would be sweet.

[BumbleBee]

Funnily enough, I'm a firm believer that going back to 8v8 will fix a few other issues as well.

Less Mechs on the field = higher TTK
Less Mechs on the field = less bandwidth requirement
Less Mechs on the field = higher framerates (less ordinance effects, less Mechs to track/render)
Less Mechs on the field = more maneuvering (can go both ways TBH, but I'm hopeful)

Edit:
Ninja'd by El Bandito

Joys of opening multiple topics to read and going through them one by one :/

Edited by BumbleBee, 18 July 2016 - 08:07 PM.

[DaZur]

Anyone who thinks MWO player population is not proportionate to its niche genre lineage is either being disingenuous for effect or is mildly delusional.

Yes absolutely, PGI has done more harm than good with their well-documented gaffes in logic and they being unnecessarily condescending toward their playerbase resulting in players effectively flipping them the bird and dropping MWO like a hot rock... But let's not overstate and continue to propagate the notion that MWO is not living up to it's potential.

[An Innocent Urbie]

I say remove tiers , MM should not consider tiers just match everyone from mech tonnage and roles

[BLOOD WOLF]

KHETTI, on 18 July 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

8v8 in QP would be sweet.

It would but you would still hit the same problem. 2v2,3v3,5v5, or 8v8

[RavenKnight86]

Yeah I wish they would go back to 8v8. I think it is telling when they have the tournament be 8v8. If they think 8v8 is the most competitive environment for a tournament why isn't it the default solo Q drop mode?

[BLOOD WOLF]

DaZur, on 18 July 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

Anyone who thinks MWO player population is not proportionate to its niche genre lineage is either being disingenuous for effect or is mildly delusional.

Yes absolutely, PGI has done more harm than good with their well-documented gaffes in logic and they being unnecessarily condescending toward their playerbase resulting in players effectively flipping them the bird and dropping MWO like a hot rock... But let's not overstate and continue to propagate the notion that MWO is not living up to it's potential.

says you. You have been like that no matter what they do.

RavenKnight86, on 18 July 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

Yeah I wish they would go back to 8v8. I think it is telling when they have the tournament be 8v8. If they think 8v8 is the most competitive environment for a tournament why isn't it the default solo Q drop mode?

That wont solve the problem as mentioned by the OP. I also dont think 8v8 will make the experience any better.

[DaZur]

BLOOD WOLF, on 18 July 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

says you. You have been like that no matter what they do.

Of course "says me", otherwise I would have quoted someone.

Been like what?... A consistent voice of reason and a conscientious member of the player base who's not prone to fits of unguided rage and derision?

[BLOOD WOLF]

DaZur, on 18 July 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

Of course "says me", otherwise I would have quoted someone.

Been like what?... A consistent voice of reason and a conscientious member of the player base who's not prone to fits of unguided rage and derision?

gaffes in logic, and being unnecessarily condescending to the player base?

You say things like that, and what does that even mean?

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 18 July 2016 - 08:17 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

KBurn85, on 18 July 2016 - 07:01 PM, said:

...and by that extension, the fact that matches are 12v12, and not 8v8. It takes exponentially longer to fill up each additional player slot.

Wait times are minimum 3 minutes these days, which is basically the MM searching within your tier the 1st minute, 1 tier beyond the second, and 2 at the third minute. This means that each tier's population is already too small.

all the whines and complaints about puglandia, etc. are caused by this, in addition to very mismatched matches. There is simply not enought players to support a true tier system with 24 players matched completely by their skill.

beyond that are game-modes. I don't think (pls pls!) PGI is stupid. If they added solaris, the normal population will dip further, and the quality of games. Single player will all but destroy the multi-player aspect for months, as everyone will play SP rather than normal games. I think this is the reason single player is always "soon™"

IDK, I think we should go back to 8v8. Will open up a lot more that PGI can do.

the ENTIRE problem, eh?

And that is my entire problem with when most people discuss fixing MWO. Everyone seems to think 1 thing will fix everything.

8v8 would certainly be a step in the right direction. But we need about 2 dozen more steps (optimistically speaking) to actually "fix" MWO.

Of course as long as people want to keep using the TT damage mechanics (loosely) and ignore all the other combat mechanics that make that particular damage system actually work (and before MickeyG and crew start in on RNG histrionics...that is only ONE approach. It just happens to be the one that works with the current damage system. But revise the damage system itself, and other approaches become workable) .... no, we won't fix much. But 8v8 would be an improvement still, of that I agree.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 July 2016 - 08:30 PM.