53 replies to this topic

[AjerWerklWerkl]

So... I am trying to level up an SHC-PRIME, but it's uber-painful because my tier has been climbing and it's now upper T2...

With the SHC-PRIME, my W/L ratio is... 0.31 over 17 games!!! Whereas with good mechs I am more like ~1.1.

Does ONE player leveling his mech really influence the game THAT much??? In several of the losses, I am in the top 3 for match score on our losing side... but yet it's one brutal loss after another, with my team being totally uncoordinated.

Which leads me to believe that the MM is actually putting a bunch of people that it THINKS should lose together...

In contrast, when I play my best mechs (where I have ~1.1 W/L ratio), the teams are nicely matched and almost all games are really fun.

Can anyone explain what's going on?? Is it really that one player in a basic mech screws up the balance *that* much?? Thank you!

Edited by AjerWerklWerkl, 17 July 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

This is my experience w T2 also. I now have an easier time leveling with my team in a group. In pugz I need to bring my complete A game or it is a loss. OR just bring your best long range sniper and hide behind somebody else from steam before they hide behind you.

[justcallme A S H]

I have no issues levelling mechs in T2? Got my SHC basic'd out in 3 games I think, maybe 4. Did 700dmg both games in a basic mech.

That said I really can't tell the difference in a small % in cooling or a torso twist 2.5% bonus.

The only thing I really notice all the time is speedtweak.

[AjerWerklWerkl]

You guys aren't really answering the question I'm asking, which is: how is it possible for just ME to have such a huge influence on the games??? (Clearly, 0.31 W/L means my SHC-PRIMEs are having a HUGE effect on making my team lose.)

R31Nismoid: I guess you're just a lot better than me!

Chuck Jager: Yes, that's exactly how it feels to me...

[InspectorG]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 17 July 2016 - 07:49 PM, said:

With the SHC-PRIME, my W/L ratio is... 0.31 over 17 games!!! Whereas with good mechs I am more like ~1.1.

17 matches is a very small sample size. Fully within the realm of possibility you had little to no outcome on those matches along with half your team.

100 games is still a small sample.

[MischiefSC]

I'm at a little over 1.3 w/l. The best players are way, way better. Look at the leaderboards.

Yes. you impact the win/loss of your games. Just like everyone else does.

[PraetorGix]

This happens to me all the time and I'm not even tier 2 yet. When I grab a non basic'd mech things go BAD. When I get into a mech that I do well in, things go much smoother. I always thought it was simply my perception but your post makes me wonder...

[Deathlike]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 17 July 2016 - 07:49 PM, said:

So... I am trying to level up an SHC-PRIME, but it's uber-painful because my tier has been climbing and it's now upper T2...

With the SHC-PRIME, my W/L ratio is... 0.31 over 17 games!!! Whereas with good mechs I am more like ~1.1.

Does ONE player leveling his mech really influence the game THAT much??? In several of the losses, I am in the top 3 for match score on our losing side... but yet it's one brutal loss after another, with my team being totally uncoordinated.

Which leads me to believe that the MM is actually putting a bunch of people that it THINKS should lose together...

In contrast, when I play my best mechs (where I have ~1.1 W/L ratio), the teams are nicely matched and almost all games are really fun.

Can anyone explain what's going on?? Is it really that one player in a basic mech screws up the balance *that* much?? Thank you!

Here's a way of looking at it.

Had you been using a better mech, you would probably do 50% more damage on average, than something like a Shadowcat that can't sustain that level of damage indefinitely (and it's not like it has many options).

This is despite whatever you get on your team.


Mind you, the matches you lose aren't necessarily because you didn't do enough damage, but for everyone you have to carry, you are expected to deal at least 10 to 20% more damage on average for their incompetence.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah mine is 1.4 lol. Nothing special.

That said it was .9 for a while after I started. As skill has risen, so has that number, but it moves slowly now there are 2k games on my account.

AjerWerklWerkl, on 17 July 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

You guys aren't really answering the question I'm asking, which is: how is it possible for just ME to have such a huge influence on the games??? (Clearly, 0.31 W/L means my SHC-PRIMEs are having a HUGE effect on making my team lose.)

R31Nismoid: I guess you're just a lot better than me!

I doubt it, my PCC accuracy is, horrendous. And that's what I'm playing with at the moment for fun and most of the time I'm getting at least 400. Especially in a ECM mech, people never know where you're coming from if you're sneaky.

Maybe you're just running sub-par builds? Over committing etc?

If you aren't doing 300dmg on average in t2, you need to reassess how you're playing IMO. The bare min you should be doing is 200dmg

[Y E O N N E]

Ever been the last man standing and clutch a match?

That's how it is possible for you to have that much influence. It goes both ways. You live long and clutch it or you die early and lose the game for your team. The snowballing nature of the mechanics and heterogeneity of skill in a match makes this a thing.

Also, as you get better you start noting all the little ways the game can be played better. You start doing better yourself and you start noticing more often when your untimely demise is not actually a failing of your own personal skills, but of the team's own inability to play well. I mean, if it comes down to me in a banged-up Shadow Cat close to losing both a side torso and a leg versus a fresh Stalker, I don't feel bad if all I can manage is to tie the game after I've already killed 5 of the opposition, there's only so much I can do without veritably committing suicide.

[El Bandito]

Some mechs are just not suited for certain players. It is possible that Crow simply is not your thing. In current 12v12 queue one man's derp action seems to snowball even harder than 8v8 was.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 July 2016 - 08:35 PM.

[AjerWerklWerkl]

I guess my point is: if you see me on your team in my SHC-PRIME, there is a 69% chance that game will be a loss for you! That seems crazy...

(Regarding the other comments about the mech, my skill, etc... yeah, leveling basic mechs is pretty hard in T2/T1, as one might expect, unless one is *very* good... much better than I am. I'm using 2 LPL build, which is pretty much what I use in my CDA-3M where I have a very solid KDR and W/L.)

Edited by AjerWerklWerkl, 17 July 2016 - 08:52 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

how big an influence is your level of play on your team?

well 1/12th of course...


or to put it another way 8.333333 % responsibility

[AjerWerklWerkl]

Mazzyplz: That's my point... that's what it SHOULD be. But if I own just 8.3%, then it's just not possible to have a 0.31 W/L when leveling a new mech. As I said in the previous post, it means that if you see me on your team leveling up my new SHC-PRIME, that there is a 66% chance you're going to lose!

So... my question is whether something else is going on with the matchmaker...

[Chuck Jager]

MM is basing your ability to lead the match solely on your PSR rating. Also MM has to balance out the high speed of mechs into t4 (specifically for t2 players). So a t2 player is always expected to carry the lower skills.

BUT

It is easier to carry in a Heavy or a few assaults that are leveled. SO every time you get Q into a pug match as a t2 not in your A game you are gimping your team. If you want to speed level do not try to win go only for damage. No need to feel guilty your team is doing the same.

[Moldur]

I wouldn't bother wondering until you have more matches in it.

[Y E O N N E]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 17 July 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

I guess my point is: if you see me on your team in my SHC-PRIME, there is a 69% chance that game will be a loss for you! That seems crazy...

(Regarding the other comments about the mech, my skill, etc... yeah, leveling basic mechs is pretty hard in T2/T1, as one might expect, unless one is *very* good... much better than I am. I'm using 2 LPL build, which is pretty much what I use in my CDA-3M where I have a very solid KDR and W/L.)

It is a little crazy, but then again your own stats balance against the other 23 peoples'. Hooray law of averages!

Also. two cLPL do not play the same as a pair of isLPL. Too much face-time. You should be really far away with that build; as in, try to be at the edge of its optimum range.

Personally, when I was grinding them, I preferred 3xcERML+1xcUAC/10 or 3xcSRM4A+2xcMPL. Those are pretty feisty. Nowadays, it's all cERPPC all the time.

[meteorol]

MischiefSC, on 17 July 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'm at a little over 1.3 w/l. The best players are way, way better. Look at the leaderboards.

Yes. you impact the win/loss of your games. Just like everyone else does.

Leaderboards are 100% useless when it comes to judging W/L ratios, because it doesn't differentiate between solo and group queue. Playing with large groups rolling over the group queue grossly inflates peoples w/ls while not being expressive for a single persons skill, at all. Looking at the leaderboard for a players w/l is pretty meaningless without knowing how much group queue he played with how many people.

Edited by meteorol, 17 July 2016 - 10:09 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

meteorol, on 17 July 2016 - 10:08 PM, said:

Leaderboards are 100% useless when it comes to judging W/L ratios, because it doesn't differentiate between solo and group queue. Playing with large groups rolling over the group queue grossly inflates peoples w/ls while not being expressive for a single persons skill, at all. Looking at the leaderboard for a players w/l is pretty meaningless without knowing how much group queue he played with how many people.

The Leaderboards are also very much down to luck of the draw. You have to play enough games where your team is potato enough to let you carry hard but not so potato that they just melt right off the bat.

[Mazzyplz]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 17 July 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

Mazzyplz: That's my point... that's what it SHOULD be. But if I own just 8.3%, then it's just not possible to have a 0.31 W/L when leveling a new mech. As I said in the previous post, it means that if you see me on your team leveling up my new SHC-PRIME, that there is a 66% chance you're going to lose!

So... my question is whether something else is going on with the matchmaker...

you seem to think 8.3% is a low percentage. but it is almost 1/10th

let me ask you something have you ever watched a soccer match.
like the world cup finals or semifinals or something like that.

have you seen a player get a red card?

if a single one of the players gets a red card and gets kicked out the whole team is much much worse off. it's a complete uphill battle for them to defend and score a goal even though there was 11 players and now there is 10

mwo is similar to that.



you also might be something that is counter productive to your team's success. sometimes light mechs do this (and mechs like cda and scat)

are you heading straight for enemy cap when the match begins? alone or with just a friendly locust?

if you're doing that then stop, don't do it.

that not only leaves your fat mechs way behind but it also puts the red team on desperation mode and once they roll your assault or heavy lance they will have a cakewalk destroying the rest of you.


if you do this at the beginning of a match when the scenario is 2 teams on full racing mode you can actually lose the match for your whole team just by yourself.

you are also assuming the rest of the team picks up the slack, but what if some players on your team are not good for 8.3% of the carry?
what if they're good for 5%?

you need to do at least 8.3% of the carry if not more. (usually more)