128 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

This whole thread is based on someone responding to a bug that he wasn't aware of.

Put the fans down, let the flames flicker out for a while, okay guys?

[Blue Pheonix]

When 60% to 90% of the top 5,000 on the leaderboards in a particular weight class is one particular chassis, then yes, this screams of an unbalanced overly strong chassis. Regardless of the weight class.

If you arent regularly doing 1,000+ damage a match in an elited/mastered Kodiak with its current stats, you probably have a wrong loadout or are doing it wrong. Doing 1,000+ damage a game fairly easily is just insane in any chassis.

I say let the power creeped Kodiak and those who bought them have their fun absolutely demolishing everyone and everthing in matches as of now. After all, they paid cash. However, until the elited/mastered Kodiak comes down to planet Earth (probably when it goes up for Cbills), keep the matches played in the "cash only" chassis from contributing towards stats on the leaderboard. This goes for all "cash only chassis".

Edited by Blue Pheonix, 22 July 2016 - 08:15 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

habu86, on 21 July 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Yes, shame on PGI for fixing the bug that caused GH to not trigger on 4x UAC-10s.

Seriously, it's one thing to complain about actual nerfs, but complaining because PGI fixed something that was literally broken in the game? Come on, man... 4x UAC-10 is still massively powerful, especially in a platform that can move.

Just use different weapon groups and stagger your shots. And maybe add a few more heatsinks.

Well... they also raised the GH multiplier. Im just bummed that the 3 UAC10 Night Gyr got kicked in the nuts before even being released.

[0bsidion]

1453 R, on 21 July 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

‘Ghost Heat’ is what the forum calls Piranha’s ‘Heat Scale’ system. Heat Scale/Ghost Heat is an anti-boating system designed to try and control/break up excessively large alpha strikes by causing players who fire more than a certain number of any given single weapon time inside a 0.5-second window to generate more heat than the weapons would otherwise naturally generate.

Almost every weapon in the game has a specific Ghost Heat limit; firing a number of this weapon above that limit (which is 2, in the case of the Quack/10) causes a “higher than normal” heat spike. The more you go above your ghost heat limit, the much harsher the Ghost Heat spike is, as the extra heat generated is exponential. The actual math behind any given Ghost Heat value is extremely obtuse and I do not care to find it right now, but the short version is this:

Whenever you’re in the ‘MechLab, building a ‘Mech, and you see the little yellow “WARNING” icon pop up, click on it. It will say “Firing more than [X] number of [WEAPON] at once will cause a higher heat spike than normal.”

That warning is the Ghost Heat limit for any given gun – breach it and you get hot, fast.

Does that make any more sense?

You left out the part where Ghost heat was intended to fix an issue created by PGI's other invention: the expandable heat cap.

If they'd cap all mechs at 30, with shutdowns happening at 14 heat points like in TT they wouldn't need the convoluted Ghost Heat mechanic.

It just boggles my mind how diligently PGI works to thwart itself sometimes.

[Yellonet]

I find them a more dangerous opponent now than before the patch, because they are harder to kill.

[1453 R]

0bsidion, on 22 July 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

You left out the part where Ghost heat was intended to fix an issue created by PGI's other invention: the expandable heat cap.

If they'd cap all mechs at 30, with shutdowns happening at 14 heat points like in TT they wouldn't need the convoluted Ghost Heat mechanic.

It just boggles my mind how diligently PGI works to thwart itself sometimes.

If all 'Mechs were capped at 30, with ammo booms and shutdown rolls happening at 14 like in TT, then a Clan 'Mech standing dead still in the middle of Frozen City firing one cERPPC once would risk ammunition explosions and spontaneous shutdowns.

Does that sound like a true-to-form TT representation of the game to you?

I don't know how many times I have to tell TT grognards - the 30-point heat cap in TT BattleTech applied ONLY AFTER HEAT SINKS WERE ALLOWED TO WORK. The 'expandable heat cap' in MWO is a direct translation of the TT system, wherein equipping more heat sinks allowed you to ignore a greater overall amount of heat before heat effects came into play. Which is, by the way, exactly what already happens in MWO.

In no way is the oft-touted, never-thought-out "30-point heat scale" a viable method for MWO.

Edited by 1453 R, 22 July 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[nehebkau]

BallBuster, on 21 July 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Thanks to the developers, the latest patch has now made my Kodiak KDK-3 nowhere near as playable as it once was. I've got it setup in a popular configuration, with 4 C-UAC-10s and before, I could do about 5 alpha strikes before it would overheat. Now it's just 1. WTF???

These guys make us pay for things in the game, then when they get too many complaints about it being powerful after the fact, they cripple us! I say everyone who bought these Kodiak packages should be receiving a refund if they are going to pull this nonsense.

Can I have yours?

[GrimRiver]

The KDK-3 wasn't OP at all, no sir not at all.

Even with it's mobility and mounting of 4x AC10's that can get 80dmg(double tap) off in under 2.5 seconds then wait a very very short cooldown and double tap again, all under 10 seconds total before most other mechs can even react.

And KDK-3 being the most used of all the versions simply because it CAN mount 4xAC10's and that being the ONLY reason people use it.

Nope no OPness here, just salty pants people.

[Elizander]

nehebkau, on 22 July 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

Can I have yours?

Get in line. I asked first.

[Blue Pheonix]

Let me get in line for that Kodiak! Please! Pretty please? With sugar on top?

[Jackal Noble]

Lol when people chime in on a mech they don't actually own, I love it. Not that you can't do that, but cred is diminished significantly imo

[Jackal Noble]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 22 July 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

Fair enough, seeing things getting nerfed is never fun, do I think their quirks need to all go away? No, I rather not completely nuke them in one go, maybe slowly easing them down in quirks until they are what they should be a Clan Atlas which should be really damn good but not what the KDK-3 was, and I think right now? They are right there. I never **** **** myself when I see a Kodiak since it generally isn't a DPS bench presser like the KDK-3 was before it had the ghost heat factor changed from 1 to 15. Though 15 might be a bit high, but, 80 on a double tap, generally 70, was still monstrous and not healthy for the game. That being said I want some minor love for my archers, flat +5 structure across all the torsos as they just need to last a bit longer and then feel like they should be balanced. And then there are my Phoenix Hawks... I love them, and ECM makes the 1b actually playable due to without a red box pugs tend to ignore you, but, those arms are so big and matter so much and just fall off like a Locust's legs.

Ya I'm glad the Phoenix got some arm buffs as it sorely needed them. Still odd at how readily it's arms pop off. Hit box issue? Idk I did notice that whenever an arm has a side mounted ballistic or energy slot vs top of the arm it's actually a lot more survivable.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 July 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Well... they also raised the GH multiplier. Im just bummed that the 3 UAC10 Night Gyr got kicked in the nuts before even being released.

There is still the 4 UAC5 Night Gyr though, so there is still a good dakka variant. This thread though, wow.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 July 2016 - 12:01 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Are we still on topic, discussing the Ghost Heat bug...?

[KHETTI]

What happened OP is all the local hospitals were experiencing a crutch shortage, PGI had no option but to give them back.
True story.

[Bill Lumbar]

Blue Pheonix, on 22 July 2016 - 05:55 AM, said:

The Kodiak is still the most unbalanced (in favor of overly strong in all areas) compared to its peers (assaults) in the game.

There is no reason something with that much armor, arms to shield and firepower should have that much outright speed (comparatively), turn rate and torso twist speed. The speed and especially turn and torso twist rate need to be reasonably nerfed at this point for balance reasons due to the factors I listed above.

For balance reasons, there should never be "one ring (mech) to rule them all". You either have armor and/or firepower and be "lumbering" or you sacrafice armor and/or firepower for reflectively better speed/agility, turn and twist rate.

Right now, due to power creep with newer mechs and the Kodiak being cash only, its somewhat understandable why the Kodiak is king with no glaring weaknesses.
However, for balance reasons, this needs to change.

Also, the Kodiak is a glaring example of why new "cash only chassis" should not count towards stats on the leaderboard (for reasons I listed in paragraph above). If they continue to do so, MWO is essentially "pay to win" and not just "free to play".

Have no fear my friend, once they drop for c-bills, just like Intel's tick tock, things will change with the Kodiak ;-) You can bank on it.

Before the great BJ "nerf" lol, I have came across a Kodiak, don't know if he had the 4 uac10's or not, but I was able to drop it using hills and buildings as cover and seismic. 8 small pulse lasers.... hmmmm yummy wubbing

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 July 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[DivineTomatoes]

GOOD.

You assault imbeciles got lights nerfed AGAIN. Now you know how we feel.

I hope you suffer and suffer a lot.

[davoodoo]

habu86, on 21 July 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Yes, shame on PGI for fixing the bug that caused GH to not trigger on 4x UAC-10s.

Seriously, it's one thing to complain about actual nerfs, but complaining because PGI fixed something that was literally broken in the game? Come on, man... 4x UAC-10 is still massively powerful, especially in a platform that can move.

Just use different weapon groups and stagger your shots. And maybe add a few more heatsinks.

There was ghost heat before, small one compared to 2 uac20 for example but still existent, they basically doubled heat generated with the "fix".

Im not fan of this change for the simple fact, it wasnt just kodiak that used that build and it hit dakkawhale even more than kodiak.

0bsidion, on 22 July 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

You left out the part where Ghost heat was intended to fix an issue created by PGI's other invention: the expandable heat cap.

If they'd cap all mechs at 30, with shutdowns happening at 14 heat points like in TT they wouldn't need the convoluted Ghost Heat mechanic.

It just boggles my mind how diligently PGI works to thwart itself sometimes.

1st chance to shutdown at 14.
2nd dhs would need serious buff
3rd http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a1dd02b12ac23dc this thing wouldnt be able to produce any heat on its own, 24 heat by doubletapping all 4 uac10 and 1 or 2 by movement while venting 30 per turn.

Edited by davoodoo, 22 July 2016 - 05:11 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 July 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

There is still the 4 UAC5 Night Gyr though, so there is still a good dakka variant. This thread though, wow.

3x uac10 anything got kicked the same way 4xppc anything got kicked by ghost heat.

It was supposed to get kicked, cuz it's a bit much.

We just never had anything able to boat ballistics for Clans this effectively before so didn't notice. Now we do, see its an issue and address it. If IS had a a 75 tonner that could boat 4 IS uac5s and the speed of a CXL it would break balance too. If you think 4xuac5 isn't going to get heat issues soon (GH or gh2.0) you're crazy Dr jones.

[Mcgral18]

Elizander, on 22 July 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

4 UAC10s deal the same damage at longer range than 2 UAC20s. 2 UAC20s will shut you down on an 80 damage double tap and now 4 UAC10s do the same thing. Seems pretty fair to me.

Making (keeping) both shite is a poor solution
At least pairs are viable for the 10s, unlike single mounts for the 20 (too many sacrifices)

Prosperity Park, on 22 July 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Are we still on topic, discussing the Ghost Heat bug...?

There was no bug, only nerf
Aside from the buff which you didn't even notice before the nerf