58 replies to this topic

[CK16]

Do you guys like these new quirks on the Viper requiring a full set of omni pods to be given?

Do you think this should be given to other Omni mechs as well down the road? What would be some chassis and varriants you would like to see with unique quirks?

Would this prevent Lego mech and min maxing omni pods?

Discuss.

Edited by CK16, 21 July 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[DrSaphron]

Having the quirks tied to the full set as opposed to specific omnipods pretty much invalidates the entire Viper chassi. With the other omnis you have to choose between a part that had mediocre to terrible hard points but good quirks or good hardpoints with mediocre or even terrible quirks, if they have any quirks at all! And it's not just the weapon quirks that you loose out on with the Viper, it's ALL the quirks! Those accel, decel, twist, turn, other movement, and even structure quirks, guess what? GONE as soon as you swap even a single omni pod out! Normally with mechs like this there is a certain skill level required to really make them shine but the Viper is weaker in every possible way than even the ultra fragile Phoenix Hawk!

[Moldur]

Mixing legs is OP. Balance was only designed for stock omnipods.

[The Zohan]

I am not against it, in fact this could be a balance mechanism of sorts. It should be introduced to Battlemechs aswell though, as in: modify the stock loadout, get none or only very low % quirks on your mech in return. This will probably help prevent boating. The more I think of it, the more I like this idea.

[Lucian Nostra]

I could see having locked quirks if like.. the quirks where REALLY GOOD. But the mediocre quirks they gave the Viper it's not worth trying to keep them.

Also the quirks they do give don't really speak to the mechs they are on. take the prime for example, 2 Energy, 2 Ballistic, 1 Missile.. think it'd have pretty strong quirks to make you want to run that but nope

[Deathlike]

The biggest problem with the "set of 8" quirks is if you have a garbage stock omnipod set.

Just scanning the Viper's hardpoints through smurfy... I'd think the Viper-D and Viper-Prime would lean towards being sub-optimal (probably more for the latter than the former).

It's not hard to find existing sets in other omnimechs that are complete and total garbage though (there are huge limitations when you look at some individual cases), so it ultimately depends on what the situation happens to be.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 July 2016 - 10:38 PM.

[Wrathful Scythe]

I dont like it. And I really hope PGI won't touch the other clanmechs to get their idea across. Might not be a big problem now but it could get annoying later on.

An Omnimech is all about changing pods to get an advantage hardpoints wise to counter your inability to change fixed equipment or bad engines. (Yes, Clantech OP we know...) Having quirks on pods is a good measure to balance said pods. With this, the 1 energy arm can be a better choice than the 3 energy arm, just because it got some quirks on it for your desired weapon. It becomes a viable choice. For example: Your not forced to take the Warhawk-Prime if you want to have 4 ERPPCs, any Warhawk can do it because you can give them the right pods for it.

Forcing omnis to be battlemechs feels like geeting screwed over.

[Terona]

CK16, on 21 July 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

Do you guys like these new quirks on the Viper requiring a full set of omni pods to be given?

Do you think this should be given to other Omni mechs as well down the road? What would be some chassis and varriants you would like to see with unique quirks?

Would this prevent Lego mech and min maxing omni pods?


You wot m8t?

This is already how a lot, if not all the omni mechs work already...



Discuss.

[Baulven]

They pretty much already tried this with the ACH. People will do without the quirks over having the worthless omnipods (they took all acel decal quirks and put them on the torsos with no weapon mounts or ECM which is never good on a low hardpoint mech)

[PhoenixFire55]

A SCR with MG-like fire rate for 6 SPLs and LBX20? Yes please.

Sorry, but I can only say no to an idea like that which only makes some mechs better and some worse once again. Lots of clan mechs are boats in stock as is, making them even better doesn't fix anything at all.

[Zomfear]

If they do, then lock the Q's on IS mech to the engine. If they change out the engine they lose the Q's, just like on a OmniMech. simple.

Zom

[Wrathful Scythe]

PhoenixFire55, on 22 July 2016 - 01:45 AM, said:

A SCR with MG-like fire rate for 6 SPLs and LBX20? Yes please.

Sorry, but I can only say no to an idea like that which only makes some mechs better and some worse once again. Lots of clan mechs are boats in stock as is, making them even better doesn't fix anything at all.

You are missing the point. Re-read the OP.
It's not about giving new quirks. Its about forcing stock pods on omnis to use given quirks and effectively penalizing the use of omnis to change hardpoints.

Edited by Wrathful Scythe, 22 July 2016 - 02:09 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Wrathful Scythe, on 22 July 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

You are missing the point. Re-read the OP.
It's not about giving new quirks. Its about forcing stock pods on omnis to use given quirks and effectively penalizing the use of omnis to change hardpoints.

Well its not really clear in the OP. I'd say quirks should be omnipod related, i.e. you put an arm with -5% energy cooldown quirk and it works only for energy weapons in said arm and so on. Thats the essense of the omnipod system, clan mechs are actually supposed to be "lego mechs" lore-wise.

Anyway, I don't think clan mechs have any quirks worth mentioning in the first place, and tbh I think there should be no quirks to begin with, either clan or IS. What was the point of rescale if we still need quirks afterwards? Kinda pathetic waste of time with zero effort tbh.

[Lily from animove]

No, because that kinda destroys the entire idea of what a omnimechs point is.

Edited by Lily from animove, 22 July 2016 - 03:58 AM.

[KrEniM MinErK]

Wrathful Scythe, on 21 July 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

Forcing omnis to be battlemechs feels like geeting screwed over.

It's worse. Currently the Viper is more or less a Battlemech with 8x fixed JJs, structure slots and engine.
One can't even add up to two DHS inside the engine.

[Lucian Nostra]

Zomfear, on 22 July 2016 - 02:00 AM, said:

If they do, then lock the Q's on IS mech to the engine. If they change out the engine they lose the Q's, just like on a OmniMech. simple.

Zom

I was just thinking this, what they're doing with the omni-pods is akin to looking at IS battlemechs and going ok you like those quirks? well you can have them if you use stock engine, stock structure, stock armor and stock heatsinks

[process]

At least the A and B variants are serviceable with 4 energy hardpoints.

If we do go the route of set bonus quirks, the weapon quirks will have to buffed, significantly in some cases. Except for a few notable exceptions, most Clan omnis seem to have a hodgepodge of stock omnipod hardpoints. The only way I could see myself running, say, a Nova with 1 ballistic and 1 missile slot, would be something like 50% cooldown on autocannons and SRMs. An IS mech with 6 medium lasers is more competitive than that unquirked, and maybe even quirked. It doesn't help that weapon balance isn't there yet.

I would say that armor/structure/agility quirks should be tied to the CT and are active regardless of attached omnipods.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 21 July 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

Just scanning the Viper's hardpoints through smurfy... I'd think the Viper-D and Viper-Prime would lean towards being sub-optimal (probably more for the latter than the former).

It's not hard to find existing sets in other omnimechs that are complete and total garbage though (there are huge limitations when you look at some individual cases), so it ultimately depends on what the situation happens to be.

Pretty much this, it is trying to create an unnecessary situation where the stock pod configuration is potentially viable, the problem is they won't inflate the hardpoint count on these poor pods nor will they give enough quirks for some of these to even be worthwhile. Not to mention to counter-intuitive nature of this, Omnipod's strength is being able to mix-n-match in this game, that is their selling point, and this quirking of set bonuses runs counter to that idea, PGI please stop doing counter-intuitive things.

[Pariah Devalis]

I'd like to see flavor quirks, to break up the gunbag all is one lack of flavor of omnis. However, making it a straight 8/8 thing is way overkill. Set bonuses are nothing new in video games. RPG use it all the time for armor sets. However, they almost always scale based on the number of pods used. Some scale it on an individual basis of parts, some set stepped thresholds.

A couple examples of set bonuses:

In GW2, each piece of armor with a set bonus provides a bonus commensurate with each piece applied. So if 8-items would give +25 of one stat, another +30 of that stat for another part, +35 for the next piece, and +40 for the next piece, +45, +50, +55, and +60 and you only chose to take two pieces of that particular stat set, you would have a bonus of +55, but forgo the benefits of the additional +285 to that stat had you continued to socket same set pieces. Greater investment in the set rewards greater benefit.

In Diablo 3, on the other hand, it uses a "set of two" concept. There is a fixed set bonus for having two pieces of a legendary set, another set bonus for having four pieces of the set, yet another for having another two pieces of the set, and one more set bonus for having the complete set. The higher level bonuses give more dramatic benefits to the player. Every bonus you get from lower combinations is retained, so you get all four bonuses when the set is complete.

In both examples, you would always get some sort of benefit from the sets, so long as you had a very minimal number of pieces required. However, you did not get the stronger benefits of the sets unless you invested heavily into the set. That benefit for fully investing would give a lot of payoff to the player, but if the playstyle or equipment available favored mixing sets a bit, you could still get some bonus out of it.

There lies my problem with the 8/8 requirement. There is no option here. It defeats the idea of omnipod flexibility. It boils down to "if you want the quirks, you cannot utilize the omni aspect of the omnimech." That makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 July 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[Dracol]

To those who are against the set of 8 quirks deal, how would handle a Hero omni mech then?

Without the set of 8, a hero omni could equip the best mods, gain the best quirks, while getting a 30% c-bill boost. What system would you suggest to avoid this?

Cause the set of 8 is doing just that, making sure the hero mech does not invalidate all other varients.