31 replies to this topic

[SmokyDaBear]

Just started reading Lethal Heritage and noticed that Chapter 7 begins with the date 30 July 3049, right around MWO's parallel timeline. It's a really fun read so far; Stackpole's a really solid writer.

Anyway, for anyone wanting to refresh themselves on the goings on of the "present" time line, I recommend the book.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

yeah a lot of people rag him but hes a good writer and its a fun read. sure as hell beats twilight lol "that atlas just sparkled in the sun!"

[skamage]

If only they had it in the amazon market so I could read it on my kindle

Edited by skamage, 17 July 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[Chuggernaut]

I guess he'd be okay if you were okay with incredibly atrocious dialogue and a writer who makes sure to tell you what every character is thinking so there's no room for any interpretation of characters. He did well with Star Wars because that is a setting that is generally very black and white, but Stackpole never manages to convey BT's sliding scale very well. He stripped all subtlety from the House Lords and turned them all into either enlightened leaders who never think even once about personal gain but only their people or power-mad tyrants with no in-between.

Edited by Chuggernaut, 17 July 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[TancredWard]

skamage, on 17 July 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

If only they had it in the amazon market so I could read it on my kindle

They do....I have it on my Kindle Fire. The whole trilogy. And I respectfully disagree Chuggs, I think he's an excellent character writer. As far as the "sliding scale" goes, its hard to tell right from wrong when its -all- middle ground.

Edited by TancredWard, 17 July 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[Chuggernaut]

TancredWard, on 17 July 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

They do....I have it on my Kindle Fire. The whole trilogy. And I respectfully disagree Chuggs, I think he's an excellent character writer. As far as the "sliding scale" goes, its hard to tell right from wrong when its -all- middle ground.

Stackpole doesn't do "middle ground." He makes sure to use 3rd-person omniscient narration so he can give us everyone's internal narrative, that way we KNOW Hanse Davion has nothing but good intentions and Max Liao is a psychopathic monster. Even when he is presented with the option of invading the DC during the Clan invasion, he's not like "Heh, I'm gonna grab Marduk back and get them back for 3039" or "those Drac ******** will pay for killing my brother!" it's all "My people! They would never have to be afraid of the Combine again!" He writes him like a saint and it strips away all the nuance that was there in the original House books in favor of Space America Beats Up the Cowardly Asian Menace.

And please, give me examples of his great character writing. You have it on your Kindle, so you should be able to pull up some great dialogues between characters that aren't just his usual "Characters making speeches at each other back and forth, exactly like people DON'T talk."

Edited by Chuggernaut, 18 July 2012 - 12:03 AM.

[Ellister]

Ive read a few Stackpole books over the years and every one has had me being unable to put the book down! one of my fav writers.

[Kottonmouth]

SmokyDaBear, on 17 July 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Just started reading Lethal Heritage and noticed that Chapter 7 begins with the date 30 July 3049, right around MWO's parallel timeline. It's a really fun read so far; Stackpole's a really solid writer.

Anyway, for anyone wanting to refresh themselves on the goings on of the "present" time line, I recommend the book.

I just received my copy of Book 2 of the same Trilogy today. I too enjoy it. If you read his first trilogy, the Warrior series, a good deal of the characters come back and you see how the generations play off of one another and get a good feel for the pressures the new generation is placed in by their families.

To all the Stackpole haters... I wonder why he was handed so much of the important eras of the timeline? He must be really terrible . When these books were written, a rough plot was outlined by FASA before any of the writers really got to take a stab at it. The Liaos are crazy, because THEY ARE FREAKING NUTS. Even the "good guys" don't always do good stuff (Victor's incident with the son of Marik anyone?)
And to be honest, let's not kid ourselves. The books are all rather cheaply written mid tier sci-fi. None of them could ever be held up as an example of the great American (or British,German, Russian, etc) novel. They are just FUN. My collection (mostly the FedCom civil war era) gathered dust for too long. This summer I have breezed through them and am now working on completing the entire set.

EDIT:Attempted for grammar. Bleh.

Edited by Kottonmouth, 18 July 2012 - 12:15 AM.

[Burnsidhe]

Ask him. Mr. Stackpole will tell you up front, that he's amazed anyone considers him a good character writer.

He's not. He writes according to a plot and events, and at best just sketches the characters in.

The other thing he's done, is that he writes FAST. He's been writing for FASA, for Star Wars, for his own series, and for a while he was basically putting out a book every three, four months.

That's an incredibly fast pace for a writer, and it shows. If you pay attention to the writing, you'll see certain 'Stackpolisms' in every book.

[RedShirtPhenom]

Been a fan of Stackpoles work for a long time (Blood Legacy was the first btech book I read) and having read what he wrote for SW and Btech I see interesting correlations to the clan invasions and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. you know, enigmatic invader with no known goals, seemingly unlimited resources and exceptional technology.
Plus, Kathrine Steinera always kinda struck me as an Iceheart archetype and Victor Davion and Kai Allard both have interesting similarities to Corran Horn, in that they posess both power and responsibility, and struggle with how to use that power and how to live up to that responsibility. but I've read those books to many times.

[Scarlett Avignon]

You can't read the old BT novels and expect Shakespeare. They are very good reads, but by no means literary masterpieces. That being said, I think that the groundwork for some amazing writing is all there, though. While the characters previous writing may have been sub-par, I think that with some work, you could easily get some fiction of the same level of the "Song of Fire and Ice" series out of the Battletech universe.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Chuggernaut, on 18 July 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

Even when he is presented with the option of invading the DC during the Clan invasion, he's not like "Heh, I'm gonna grab Marduk back and get them back for 3039" or "those Drac ******** will pay for killing my brother!" it's all "My people! They would never have to be afraid of the Combine again!" He writes him like a saint and it strips away all the nuance that was there in the original House books in favor of Space America Beats Up the Cowardly Asian Menace.

Personally, I don't think it's quite as bad as you make it out to be, though it is occasionally lacking.

I always considered the proper resolution to that scenario to be that Hanse Davion shifted ever regiment he could spare to the DC border in preparation to take control of as many Combine worlds as he could, should they fail to hold Luthien. That way, any move to take control of DC worlds could be cast as a police action meant to protect Inner Sphere interests from the invading Clans. I still like the idea of Davion sending mercenaries to Luthien, though, just to prove that he isn't a completely self-centered *****, and willing to work together for a common goal. It lays the groundwork for Victor and Hohiro eventually being less antagonistic towards each other, too.

Calling it "Space America Beats Up the Cowardly Asian Menace" is a little too much of a simplification, though, in my opinion. Each of the houses is given a "personality" based on their situation and standing in Inner Sphere politics. The Draconis Combine is a dangerous yet honorable foe, the Lyran Commonwealth is known as an economic powerhouse, the Free Worlds League is powerful yet tempered by it's fractious political system. The Capellan Confederation is a small nation with a rich history, and of course, The Federated Suns is known for it's dedication to freedom through military might. Their 'personalities' have often shifted throughout the time periods, and while it may seem that it's the "White dudes vs the Asians" now, it hasn't always been that way. A quick glance back through maps and timelines can easily show you that political allainces and power blocks have shifted quite often throughout the BT story.

[Fusea]

Chuggernaut, on 17 July 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

I guess he'd be okay if you were okay with incredibly atrocious dialogue and a writer who makes sure to tell you what every character is thinking so there's no room for any interpretation of characters. He did well with Star Wars because that is a setting that is generally very black and white, but Stackpole never manages to convey BT's sliding scale very well. He stripped all subtlety from the House Lords and turned them all into either enlightened leaders who never think even once about personal gain but only their people or power-mad tyrants with no in-between.

Incredibly atrocious dialogue? Making speeches at each other? So you mean that he writes the heads of states exactly like... heads of state? At least that's about what they sound like during an election year. Besides, some of us do make speeches at each other. Supervisors, superior officers, people with pretensions of importance or vast intellect, client's upset that their expensive car isn't working properly despite the fact that they aren't using it right... the British.
As for great characters, I really don't read Stackpole for that. I read Stackpole to find out about, and keep track of, what is going on in the Inner Sphere. If I want a social calendar for BT, I make one up.

[2ane]

i too recently read some of the older books and hell there sure is some bad writing in them.

Also the sudden appearance of intelligent swamp-people, whatsupwitdat?

I always liked the Victor Milan novels best. Yeah they are kinda grimdark and Cassy is a Mary Sue but i like the grittiness (and the violence tbh).

Also Battletech is all about the mercs for me.

[RogueSpear]

Sophistokated, on 21 July 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Been a fan of Stackpoles work for a long time (Blood Legacy was the first btech book I read) and having read what he wrote for SW and Btech I see interesting correlations to the clan invasions and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. you know, enigmatic invader with no known goals, seemingly unlimited resources and exceptional technology.
Plus, Kathrine Steinera always kinda struck me as an Iceheart archetype and Victor Davion and Kai Allard both have interesting similarities to Corran Horn, in that they posess both power and responsibility, and struggle with how to use that power and how to live up to that responsibility. but I've read those books to many times.

Don't remind me about the Yuuzhan Vong. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of the out and out haters of them, but the Vong stand for everything that was wrong with the New Jedi Order series.
Specifically, it wasn't a series by anything but the loosest definition. None of the authors talked to each other, most of them didn't respect each other much by the end of it, and there was even deliberate attempts to kill each other's storylines, leaving all sorts of loose threads. The Yuuzhan Vong came off surprisingly well given that they had at least half a dozen different writers pulling them every which way.
Stackpole did a great job with the X-Wing series, and some other SW stuff, but getting involved in the NJO mess was very daft.
Sorry for the OT ramble.

[Dreadnought13]

I haven't finished the first book yet, but its my first Stackpole novel. He's not awful, but there's got to be a more solid author in the BT universe for me to read. Every chapter is an info dump, followed by an info dump, followed by a monologue info dump. Pretty basic tropes for scifi authors to avoid. His writing style I'd call "surging". You can tell where he felt like REALLY over describing handshakes... and then not much else. I don't care for his style. If you dig it, fine I suppose, not my business... but I'm not enjoying his simplicity.

edit: granted the books came out in 1989, and while FAR greater scifi books were written thirty+ years earlier than that, the late 1980s - early 90s weren't exactly the golden era for scifi tie in novels, so I should show more patience. But everywhere I looked there was near unanimous agreement to read the Blood of Kerensky trilogy first.

Edited by Dreadnought13, 25 July 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[capt hungry]

Say what you will about Mr Stackpole, but I have always felt that he's had a good grasp of the BTech universe. When I saw that he'd written the first book for the Mechwarrior Dark Age, I read it. Mostly because it was written by him. I didn't realize until recently that the early books were written before the BTech universe was more fleshed out.

[Col Nighthawk]

Dreadnought13, on 25 July 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I haven't finished the first book yet, but its my first Stackpole novel. He's not awful, but there's got to be a more solid author in the BT universe for me to read. Every chapter is an info dump, followed by an info dump, followed by a monologue info dump. Pretty basic tropes for scifi authors to avoid. His writing style I'd call "surging". You can tell where he felt like REALLY over describing handshakes... and then not much else. I don't care for his style. If you dig it, fine I suppose, not my business... but I'm not enjoying his simplicity.

edit: granted the books came out in 1989, and while FAR greater scifi books were written thirty+ years earlier than that, the late 1980s - early 90s weren't exactly the golden era for scifi tie in novels, so I should show more patience. But everywhere I looked there was near unanimous agreement to read the Blood of Kerensky trilogy first.

You might want to look into William H Kieth Jr and the Grey Death Legion saga then. One of the better writers I've found over the years for the Battletech universe as in a lot of the houses actions are a mystery to the characters. He also has a way of bring across the emotional turmoil of being caught up in something bigger than oneself. at least in MHO. The titles and authors can be found below I really enjoyed the first 2 before he started letting Andrew chime in on his works. Anyway hope it helps.

http://www.sarna.net...ay_Death_Legion

[Sky walker]

Guy is cool.
His books are excellent stuff to read in airplane /train / submarine. No, it's not the highest and deepest sci-fi author out there, but his books are quick to read and involving. That's what I like in them and honestly? If I'd want to recommend someone a book to start with and getting some more grasp of what BTU is - it'd be the Blood of Kerensky series.

[Kaarde]

Stack pole is a good journeyman author. He is the type that you call in to help flesh out a series in a world that's already built and functional.

He is no Zahn but he is a solid author and I tend to like reading his works.
People need to realize that these books were niche market books and not major series at the time, so FASA wasn't going to get Pulitzer authors for them.

And please don't start with the Vong. That series started the new publisher house and nearly turned me off the SW books for good.