61 replies to this topic

[Yellonet]

Mystere, on 23 July 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Good luck!

How do you measure:

• command abilities
  
• vanguard
  
• distraction
  
• baiting
  
• enemy suppression
  

Well that might be difficult, how do they do that in other games?

As it is now, if you only do the mentioned activities your score will be very low, but for every player that do these important "jobs" in a match there are 20 players that don't do **** and get the same score, I just say it's wrong to award those 20 on account of the 1 player doing these things right. That one player will likely find more ways to get score. Do we really want CoDkid1137 in T1 just because he got carried? Awarding players that don't get a good score is just counter productive to ever getting to play mostly with players with similar skill.

[-Vompo-]

Queen of England, on 23 July 2016 - 05:28 AM, said:

If it were up to me:

The top 8 match scores go up in PSR;
The middle 8 match scores don't move;
The bottom 8 match scores go down in PSR.

The scoring would have to change too to represent good play instead of damage done. You can kill a mech by doing less than 50 damage or kill the same mech by doing 500. Now the game would give the player who is less effective way higher score.

[mogs01gt]

There is nothing worse than getting the only one or two kills in a match, score 400+dmg and your PSR goes down due to the loss....Thanks PGI..

[Mystere]

Yellonet, on 28 July 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

Well that might be difficult, how do they do that in other games?

I would assume no one does because they are, as you said, rather difficult to measure. But ...

Yellonet, on 28 July 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

As it is now, if you only do the mentioned activities your score will be very low, but for every player that do these important "jobs" in a match there are 20 players that don't do **** and get the same score, I just say it's wrong to award those 20 on account of the 1 player doing these things right. That one player will likely find more ways to get score. Do we really want CoDkid1137 in T1 just because he got carried? Awarding players that don't get a good score is just counter productive to ever getting to play mostly with players with similar skill.

Which is why I say just base PSR on a person's ability to win.

[Stone Wall]

mogs01gt, on 28 July 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

There is nothing worse than getting the only one or two kills in a match, score 400+dmg and your PSR goes down due to the loss....Thanks PGI..

how many 5-7 kill games do I need in a Jenner, PGI?

I emailed them this.

[Brain Cancer]

Stone Wall?

Eight games total, nine kills in all. So you've had what, one 5-7 kill game of epicness?

[Angel of Annihilation]

I agree that the way the PSR ranking works is really bad. I mean last night I had a game where I made a huge mistake and got totally wiped off the map in seconds and ended the match with something like a 89 match score but still somehow had my ranking go up. Something is massively wrong with that.

Also I wanted that being able to opt out of being placed in higher tiered matches even when your good enough to be in that tier doesn't work. What would happen is that many very highly skilled players would decide to play the lowest tiers simply so they could seal club and dominate the match. Let's be honest, who doesn't want to feel like Natasha Kerensky or Kia Allard-Liao by being able to enter a match and just dominate it with your Elite Skills. So yeah, opting out won't work because for a skill based MM to work, it needs to force good players out of lower Tiers just like it keeps bad players out of the higher tiers.

Personally I feel they should remove the skill based MM all together and just drop people in randomly. By doing that you ultimately will get a similar distribution of skill levels on both teams more often than not anyway and it would allow really good players to stand out while also forcing bad players to up their game to compete.

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

Stone Wall, on 28 July 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

how many 5-7 kill games do I need in a Jenner, PGI?

I emailed them this.

I think we have all seen enough.....

Edited by ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants, 28 July 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

You linked the thumbnail.

[Angel of Annihilation]

MrMadguy, on 23 July 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

I've got sick of this "PSR is W/L-based, cuz PGI want to encourage teamwork" populist demagogic buzzword BS argument. Personally for me PSR works exactly the way, OP has described: I'm solo player, 100% selfish, zero teamwork, prefer to play "fun" non-Meta builds, don't have much skill, have low K/D and average MS - but all of a sudden my rating keeps and keeps rising. Why it's so? According to your argument I should be in Tier 5 by now. But I'm in Tier 2. Conclusion - I'm being carried by my teams. This should be fixed - my rating should be up to me only. Because IT'S MY RATING, and it affects MY GAMEPLAY. Constantly rising rating => constantly increasing teams' average level of skill and difficulty level => lesser and lesser personal performace => constantly decreasing personal impact on result of the match => more and more unplayable game. Why should I play unplayable game? M?

I absolutely agree with you. Right now I am playing at Tier 3 but I am climbing very rapidly. However I am very comfortable at Tier 3. I don't dominate the matches I play but generally find my per match performance placing me in the top 3 or 4 mechs each match. However, as I get pushed up the Tiers, my game play and place on the scoreboard is going to get pushed more and more toward average which in turn means my overall enjoyment of the game will go down. Eventually if I perhaps progress up to Tier 1, I might very well find myself always at the bottom in terms of performance but doing to well to be pushed down to Tier 2. Obviously at this point the game isn't going to be enjoyable any more.

Of course this is why I hate skill based MM. Generally I am an above average to very good player, but not great or elite which means in a random match, my individual skill will almost always allow me to perform within the top 25%-30% on matches and enjoy the game. Skill based MMs on the other hand generally punish good players by always forcing mediocrity on them by insuring they are always playing against players at the same skill level. Basically they can never show off their skill by playing against people who aren't as skilled. That is pretty lame if you ask me.

[Brain Cancer]

So you're basically saying that it's not fun unless you can reliably be clubbing down your inferiors?

Also, you'll never be pushed down tiers. You score 250+ match score on average which means even on losses, you probably don't lose PSR, and almost inevitably gain more than enough to compensate with interest on a loss. Even if you lose a little more going to T2, you're still "in the zone" and T1 or T2 now has plenty of potato to blast in the average match. That's kinda the problem- bad play has to be beyond hideous to get any significant loss or even to hold par.

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

Brain Cancer, on 28 July 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

You linked the thumbnail.

You beat me too it.

[PhoenixFire55]

El Bandito, on 23 July 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:

So, what now?

Wanna buy a MechPack^TM?.

[davoodoo]

If you want small changes and requirement of constant wins to advance then you will need to reset everyone tier and simply do placement.

Remember though, this system isnt designed for anyone to raise or drop, once youre placed youre gonna stay there.
Also dont be fooled, for placement matches to place you accordingly you will still play with absolute morons...

Edited by davoodoo, 29 July 2016 - 02:27 AM.

[Stone Wall]

I've emailed PGI about this. Bush Hopper said he couldn't see me on another test.

[Stone Wall]

Brain Cancer, on 28 July 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Stone Wall?

Eight games total, nine kills in all. So you've had what, one 5-7 kill game of epicness?

Put a double space between my name.

[Bilbo]

Mystere, on 28 July 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

I would assume no one does because they are, as you said, rather difficult to measure. But ...




Which is why I say just base PSR on a person's ability to win.

We already had that. Everyone said that sucked too.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Brain Cancer, on 28 July 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

So you're basically saying that it's not fun unless you can reliably be clubbing down your inferiors?

Also, you'll never be pushed down tiers. You score 250+ match score on average which means even on losses, you probably don't lose PSR, and almost inevitably gain more than enough to compensate with interest on a loss. Even if you lose a little more going to T2, you're still "in the zone" and T1 or T2 now has plenty of potato to blast in the average match. That's kinda the problem- bad play has to be beyond hideous to get any significant loss or even to hold par.

Yes so much yes. I just kinda gave up a while ago and didn't care what my score was. Just support the assaults more often than not rather than get aggressive anymore. Really terrible matches over an over and my tier hasn't budged.

[MrMadguy]

Mystere, on 23 July 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Good luck!

How do you measure:

• command abilities
  
• vanguard
  
• distraction
  
• baiting
  
• enemy suppression

Simple logic. Does this crap make any contribution to your rewards? No? Then why do you care about it? Ending match with 0 kills, 0 dmg = 0 rewards - is your choice and only yours. And all I want - rewards to be normalized, i.e. distributed more evenly and therefore fairly between players. Currently rewards are proportional to Match Score, that is measure of personal performance, but PSR is proportional to W/L, which is measure of team performance. This causes your rating to be biased towards average team performance, while biasing way too far away from your personal performance. Therefore currently the easiest way to normalize rewards - is to make PSR more MS-dependent. And finding a way to reward activities, you've mentioned - is the next step. And once PGI will find a way to reward them - this will automatically allow them to contribute to your Match Score - i.e. to your PSR. But, as I've said - this should be a second step. And first step, that will fix current situation with reward distribution - is to make PSR more MS-dependent.

I.e. to do this. First simple step, that is necessary to fix PSR according to current rewarding model:

Edited by MrMadguy, 29 July 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Put a double space between my name.

That does indeed make a difference. Considering the KDR, I'm surprised your average match score isn't even 150.