12 replies to this topic

[Dunher Wright]

So this has been discussed before but i think it needs to be said as i haven't heard it properly emphasized but when it comes to getting hit by ppc's ADD HUD SCRAMBLE/DISTORTION ie EMP FS2 EFFECT a.k.a. THE MECHANIC IN MW3 AND MW4(not talking about modern warfare). in those games they too didnt do too much damage and you had to lead the target making it hard to use, HOWEVER when the bad guy had one it was like " oh god you better not hit me with that you sunnoffuh bi(PSHZZZZSHHZZ STATIC SOUNDS FROM HIT), AH! seriously?" against ai it didnt account for the hud fizzing but against people it was annoying and prevented them from firing effectively back for a good second or 2. Now theres other things you could do to improve it like having ppcs not fire within 90m unless overdrive is engaged causing a chance to do full damage to the enemy as well as scaled to full damage TO YOUR OWN PPC DESTROYING IT with damage getting split between the enemy or your ppc. Add even slight heat and explosive damage to all ppcs and it is a significantly more effective class of weapon. It might not take them down but it'll go boom and add the much needed frustration of getting hit from previous games.

[Spleenslitta]

I suggest having some space in your textwall to make it easier to read.

[Ooorky]

In early beta PPCs had EMP effect, they removed it because ppl abused it.

+wall of text.

[Dunher Wright]

Yeah sorry about the wall of text, my first post on this site and it was a spur of the moment rambling. But on the topic of emp and abuse does making the ppc just a high slow heat infinite ammo ac10 really the right choice? Doing so just seems to shift the abuse to whoever uses it instead of the guy being hit by it.

What im trying to get at is the ppc weapons should have that effect even if it automatically makes it a "trolling" weapon. It needs it if not only for a slight annoyance in firing back or for any of the returning fans from the other games but as a unique effect that gives an advantage to what is supposed to be one of the most powerful weapons.

Many times i'll be shooting ppcs or recieving ppc fire back and you know what a normal player does when getting hit by a ppc, they shrug it off like getting hit by anything else. This is just wrong, and to anyone whos played mechwarrior 4 would agree that that effect was just made for pvp, like i said it doesn't have to be a long distortion if just half as long as in mw4 and it would at least useful as a psychological warfare weapon like i shouldnt be getting hit by ppcs.

Now this is the first time im hearing about there being an emp effect early on but if that meant not being able to shoot back during the distortion i just meant there being a visual distortion to impede aiming. Dont see why anyone would be against something like that since the ppc is still a moderate damage and high heat weapon.

P.s.-also is this a more suitable spacing for a reply? Im not being sarcastic im seriously asking.

[Spleenslitta]

It is suitable spacing.

The comparison with the AC10 is understandable. But how is it a punishment for the player using the PPC to fire it?
If an enemy ignores the 10 points of damage then he is ignorant. Many would say the AC10 has more staying power and firepower because of the lower heat and faster firerate.

Of course the AC10 does that. It's much heavier and take far more crit slots when you take ammo into concideration so it should be a generaly more powerfull weapon.
PPC gives you more tonnage to use for other weapons and other stuff so it's a far more flexible weapon.

In my eyes PPC is not meant to be a weapon you fire constantly. I fire it once or twice and then i relocate far and cool down while relocating.
If you find the ER PPC to be too hot then don't use several of them all at once.

PPC's in all forms are my favorite weapons bar none. Nothing wrong with them except they say hit registration is bad.
But i've never noticed a hit registration problem myself. But then again i whenever i use a PPC i only use one along with a mix of weapons so that may be why.

[Dunher Wright]

The hit registration thing is because the projectile is physically wider probably.
(if peeking from a hill and you can see a little bit of the enemy behind another hill chances are you'll hit the hill, the circle within your reticle is a good gauge to see how big the projectile is and if it doesnt fit on a target without touching the ground dont bother firing)

Its punishing on the player because i agree that its a slow firing weapon not meant to be fired repeatedly but not on it not being a primary weapon since mechs like the vindicator and awesome rely on it by stock, i have no issue with damage to heat as its one of the aspects that pgi took from the tt and got it correct.

What i have an issue with is that the normal ppc already isnt a brawling weapon, it takes skill to lead targets, and in spite of this there's no real incentive to use it over say lasers or autocannons other than nostalgia but its a weapon that deserves a niche and to be unique for players to use.

Hud distortion would make it interesting and at least a start in making it viable and satisfying to use. All it does now is disable ecm for a short time... seriously?! That thing i could do with tag or bap. theres a slew of effects they could have done for it to not only stick with the lore but also stay balanced as the tt as its already pretty balanced.

10 damage and negate ecm for like 5 seconds just isnt enough for the particle projection cannon.

[Spleenslitta]

Well i do agree it's ability to counter ECM is a bit....well...lacklustre. HUD disturbance would be nice. Let's look at some other possibilities.

Any enemy hit by it cannot target you. Meaning it cannot lock on LRM/streaks or see how damaged your mech is by targeting while the disturbance is going on.
How long should this disturbance last? I haven't got the faintest clue.

As for reasons to take it over lasers? Pin point damage and that is all.
I have frequently changed back and forth between an ER PPC and ER LL on my Kit Fox....end up with the PPC most of the time.
But the normal standard IS PPC...i rarelly use that one. Even my much loved Vindicators use the ER PPC instead.

[BaronLewdWickVonJunz]

I agree with Dunher Wright, giving a slight disorientation to the HUD after being hit by a PPC would be drama worthy. If a mech gets hit by a PPC in the leg or arms, the disorientation effect would be quite less. Now if a PPC was to strike in the RT, LT, CT (Including rear), & Cockpit, the effect would be greater. Also, getting hit with multiple PPC's within the disorientation effect may increase the "wackiness", giving much respect to multiple PPC carrying mech/variants.

How about missile locks? Could PPC's break the locks of LRM's, and Streaks? I believe it would be a great addition and new challenge to the game. I do not believe they ever did, but it kind of makes sense.

[Dunher Wright]

Well i was thinking more about just the disturbance, heat dmg, a slight explosion, but that talk about wackiness got me thinking about just what a ppc is sooo...

Just going off stuff i read from sarna i believe the projectile is some weird amalgamation of scifi plasma and a slow lightning bolt and it would essentially be a mech taser if the enemy mech wasn't grounded by the ground. So i think, though this might be a just to op, that it should have a percent chance (based on distance from nearest map object) to overload and shutdown jumping mechs.

If not that maybe a percent chance of repeated ppc shots to disable for a short time enemy sensors and equipment randomly. Like within 5 seconds an 11% chance with an additional 11% added for each shot in that timeframe to disable radar, bap, ecm, command console, enemy or self damage readout,etc.

The thing with normal ppcs working i think should be within 90m that whatever chances were in TT or for a linear scale chance to do full damage or partial damage with some going to the ppc firing with a maximum of 5, or half to the enemy and half to your gun. The ppc has 10 hp and the damage going back is directed back and to the ppc EVEN IF YOU STILL HAVE ARMOR. And if damage does go back then the enemy and you recieve a hud distortion.
Also have it where it will only fire within 90 if in override engaged mode.
This is to fix the whole i can still fire and rack up heat but do no damage for absolutely no reason and make you capable of firing it in an emergency to at least have a chance to do some damage with the chance of blowing up said weapon in 2 shots if your luck is the worst.

So what do you guys think?

[Spleenslitta]

Naaa...sounds like it would make the PPC far less reliable and the HUD distortion is not worth the damage to the PPC.
Besides the first thing that would happen is the forums overflowing of players complaints of only firing their PPC twice before it destroyed itself.

Good to come up with new ideas though.

[Fluff My Garfield]

Spleenslitta, on 30 July 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

It is suitable spacing.

The comparison with the AC10 is understandable. But how is it a punishment for the player using the PPC to fire it?
If an enemy ignores the 10 points of damage then he is ignorant. Many would say the AC10 has more staying power and firepower because of the lower heat and faster firerate.

People shrug off PPCs because the hit already happened and with a 4 second cooldown it is not likely to happen again before they get under cover. Any AC-10s will probably get another shot in though.

Dunher Wright, on 01 August 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Well i was thinking more about just the disturbance, heat dmg, a slight explosion, but that talk about wackiness got me thinking about just what a ppc is sooo...

Just going off stuff i read from sarna i believe the projectile is some weird amalgamation of scifi plasma and a slow lightning bolt and it would essentially be a mech taser if the enemy mech wasn't grounded by the ground. So i think, though this might be a just to op, that it should have a percent chance (based on distance from nearest map object) to overload and shutdown jumping mechs.

If not that maybe a percent chance of repeated ppc shots to disable for a short time enemy sensors and equipment randomly. Like within 5 seconds an 11% chance with an additional 11% added for each shot in that timeframe to disable radar, bap, ecm, command console, enemy or self damage readout,etc.

The thing with normal ppcs working i think should be within 90m that whatever chances were in TT or for a linear scale chance to do full damage or partial damage with some going to the ppc firing with a maximum of 5, or half to the enemy and half to your gun. The ppc has 10 hp and the damage going back is directed back and to the ppc EVEN IF YOU STILL HAVE ARMOR. And if damage does go back then the enemy and you recieve a hud distortion.
Also have it where it will only fire within 90 if in override engaged mode.
This is to fix the whole i can still fire and rack up heat but do no damage for absolutely no reason and make you capable of firing it in an emergency to at least have a chance to do some damage with the chance of blowing up said weapon in 2 shots if your luck is the worst.

So what do you guys think?

Overall, I am really digging giving the PPC effects beyond just damage and the negligible ECM disabling effects. I like the HUD scramble and that getting hit with a few would add some time to that but up to a limit and without affecting the ability to fire most weapons. I like it removing missile locks and affecting sensors such as BAP, targeting computers, etc. and I like that as an impact location dependent mechanic favoring head and torso hits.

Remember back before ghost heat when AC-10/Gauss and PPC builds were all the rage? The characteristics of PPCs were so similar to those two ballistic weapons that it wasn't worth putting in a separate group. With HUD scramble, sensor/equipment disruption, and probably some reduced damage to make up for this new usefulness it would be a distinctly different weapon and the ONLY ONE to fill a much needed anti-electronics role in a BATTLE BETWEEN FRICKIN' ROBOTS! How is there nothing that targets electronics instead of armor in a conflict like this?

Also, remember all those times some sneaky little Spider or Raven is behind your team spotting things and you can see him but not really do much about it? PPC. He's an information war combatant, fight him with an information war weapon!

Edited by Ogrecorps, 02 August 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[Dunher Wright]

How would giving the ppc additional effects on top of the damage it already does make it unreliable?
The IS PPC isnt supposed to even fire within 90m, the fact that you can for no damage just seems like poor programming and to confuse new players who don't know what minimum range on a ppc is. The thing i propose isn't just supported by the canon and TT rules but meant as an emergency if your about to die and you need to take the chance for one more shot.
The normal ppc is all im talking about, not the ER variants including the clan version.

When talking about explosive damage im thinking about splash damage, albeit slight also, if you miss the target but hit right between his legs like 1 damage to each.

[Spleenslitta]

Dunher Wright, on 03 August 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

How would giving the ppc additional effects on top of the damage it already does make it unreliable?
The IS PPC isnt supposed to even fire within 90m, the fact that you can for no damage just seems like poor programming and to confuse new players who don't know what minimum range on a ppc is. The thing i propose isn't just supported by the canon and TT rules but meant as an emergency if your about to die and you need to take the chance for one more shot.
The normal ppc is all im talking about, not the ER variants including the clan version.

When talking about explosive damage im thinking about splash damage, albeit slight also, if you miss the target but hit right between his legs like 1 damage to each.

You mean this happens only when inside 90 meters? That's a different story then....had to fight my way through the grammar on that one.
English is my second language you see.

I don't know what to think of such an ability so i chose to remain neutral. HUD and targeting distortion sounds intresting though.