56 replies to this topic

[Product9]

Hey guys,

While reading about the general dissatisfaction with PSR, I got to thinking. How can skill actually be measured? There are so many factors in this game that contribute to a win or a loss, or how much damage someone does, and with all the many variables any measurement of skill is going to be nebulous at best.

So, I was thinking, if skill is supposed to be a reflection of the pilot inside the machine, wouldn't one way to measure that be to pit pilots against each other in the same mech and build and rate who comes out on top?

Maybe have a chosen chassis and build for each weight class, and have players face off for a ranking that can be used for matchmaker.

I understand there are several potential problems with the idea. For one thing, individual skill doesn't necessarily translate to skill as a member of a group. But, it's just an idea, and I'd like to get some discussion going on it to maybe refine it, or point out fatal flaws.

I think it would be a boon to the game if there were a 1v1 arena, because it would be a really fast way to get some instant action, and even provide something for small groups of friends to do when group queue times are super long. Also, we don't have to stop at 1v1 either. We could have 2v2 as well, which would be another really great way to get more people playing instead of waiting around for 24 people.

2v2 wouldn't be as good as a measurement for skill, because teamwork and yadda yadda, but it's just an idea.

So, what say you?

Also, for the record, this is sort of inspired by the Armored Core franchise and my experience in that series.

[Stone Wall]

We played alot of 1vs1 in league play in MW3 with respawn on. It was great fun. You could take your chat warrior **** talking to a "1vs1?" state and then those two would come back after the game still talking ****.

Pilots gained/lost recognition fast. Pilots had rivalries. We had pilots known to be the best at using only lasers or UACs or stock mechs in these game modes where they agree on only bringing lasers or UACs. This was user created. We could duel it out 1vs1 like the Wild West. Pilots in this game are stripped of that. Instead recognition comes from a "I have no job" Leaderboard or "i'm the best on the mic." It's a disservice to people that they instead get achievements over being known as the local badass.

Having ANY options would be great. Game lobbies, respawn on/off, unlimited ammo on/off, stock mechs on/off, MFB on/off, 1vs1 or 2vs2 or a 24 mech FFA etc. Just like the best MW online game ever.

PS: PGI, we still had tournaments in that game too.

Edited by Stone Wall, 24 July 2016 - 08:50 AM.

[Product9]

Okay, so how 'bout a 1v1 arena where the two pilots cannot actually see who they are battling against or speak with one another?

Remember, this is ultimately for matchmaking - a way to measure skill more objectively and consistently. It would be an internal system, but I would think a person should at least be able to see where they rank in each class... sort of how we can see what Tier we are in now.

But picture dropping into a 1v1 with a mech that is exactly the same as yours and battling it out. You have no idea who you fought, only whether you won or lost.

Of course, for this to work it would probably be limited by having to go against people who are next in line or next below you in the rating, but all of that would be handled behind closed doors by the matchmaker. The only worry I have is that it might lead to longer than necessary waits, or going against someone who is of a vastly different skill.

[Yellonet]

1 vs 1 is very different compared to 12 vs 12 which makes being good in one mode a different skill from being good in the other.

[Ice6]

We can't even get a chat lobby in the game...you know, so you can build relationships.

[Stone Wall]

Ice6, on 24 July 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

We can't even get a chat lobby in the game...you know, so you can build relationships.

Oh yes. All types of relationships.

[Mystere]

In other words, you want a Solaris environment. In that case, I should note that the only Solaris mode I am interested in is a 24(+)-player, no-holds-barred, last-player-standing, winner-takes-all furball. Why? Because:

[Stone Wall]

FFA was another game mode people played. It kinda died out after the first 2-3 years. Usually new people would hop into it and people would bring anything they wanted. I think alot of new people joined just for the chaos and for sniping a kill or two.

[Product9]

Mystere, on 24 July 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

In other words, you want a Solaris environment.

No, because that would (presumably) mean a pilot could bring whatever mech and loadout they want within the weight class. That would totally defeat the purpose.

It's very important for this to work that 1v1s are done with the same mech, with an identical build. Otherwise, there are too many variables. This idea is purely to measure individual skill, so removing the variables associated with different chassis and builds is a must.

[Mystere]

Stone Wall, on 24 July 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

FFA was another game mode people played. It kinda died out after the first 2-3 years. Usually new people would hop into it and people would bring anything they wanted. I think alot of new people joined just for the chaos and for sniping a kill or two.

Well, I thrive in chaos. That's how I made a lot of money.

Product9, on 24 July 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

No, because that would (presumably) mean a pilot could bring whatever mech and loadout they want within the weight class. That would totally defeat the purpose.

It's very important for this to work that 1v1s are done with the same mech, with an identical build. Otherwise, there are too many variables. This idea is purely to measure individual skill, so removing the variables associated with different chassis and builds is a must.

I would define skill as [piloting + gunnery + selecting the correct Mech and loadout].

[Yellonet]

Mystere, on 24 July 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

In other words, you want a Solaris environment. In that case, I should note that the only Solaris mode I am interested in is a 24(+)-player, no-holds-barred, last-player-standing, winner-takes-all furball. Why? Because:

Ah yes, the game mode also known as Hide-as-long-as-you-can mode.

[Product9]

Yellonet, on 24 July 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

1 vs 1 is very different compared to 12 vs 12 which makes being good in one mode a different skill from being good in the other.

I did mention that. But, we already have a 12 vs 12 metric called PSR, which many people think doesn't work.

1v1 skill might not be a perfect metric, but it would be a lot more objective than what we can glean from 12 vs 12.

Mystere, on 24 July 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

I would define skill as [piloting + gunnery + selecting the correct Mech and loadout].

Correct mech and loadout is an important skill, but it isn't something that can be easily measured.

Again, I'm looking for easily measured, objective data purely for matchmaker (with the ancillary benefit of another dimension and gamemode to consider).

[Mystere]

Yellonet, on 24 July 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Ah yes, the game mode also known as Hide-as-long-as-you-can mode.

What's not to like?

Edited by Mystere, 24 July 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

We will get free-for-all deathmatches in Solaris, according to Russ. The Solaris leaderboards will apparently have both individual pilots and 8-man teams.

At least, that's what they're saying is the plan, right now. We don't really know anything about what Solaris will be like (e.g. will deathmatches be 4-man, 8-man, 12-man, 24-man or what?) or when it's going to get here.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I was pretty sure the planned Solaris mode will have 1v1s and the ability for people to spectate those matches and possibly bet on winner.

[Stone Wall]

Maybe one day we're getting this Solaris.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4265728

[Product9]

Guys, you're missing the point. This isn't about Solaris or even about a new game mode per se. This is about replacing or augmenting PSR.

[Deathlike]

Product9, on 24 July 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Hey guys,

While reading about the general dissatisfaction with PSR, I got to thinking. How can skill actually be measured? There are so many factors in this game that contribute to a win or a loss, or how much damage someone does, and with all the many variables any measurement of skill is going to be nebulous at best.

So, I was thinking, if skill is supposed to be a reflection of the pilot inside the machine, wouldn't one way to measure that be to pit pilots against each other in the same mech and build and rate who comes out on top?

Maybe have a chosen chassis and build for each weight class, and have players face off for a ranking that can be used for matchmaker.

I understand there are several potential problems with the idea. For one thing, individual skill doesn't necessarily translate to skill as a member of a group. But, it's just an idea, and I'd like to get some discussion going on it to maybe refine it, or point out fatal flaws.

I think it would be a boon to the game if there were a 1v1 arena, because it would be a really fast way to get some instant action, and even provide something for small groups of friends to do when group queue times are super long. Also, we don't have to stop at 1v1 either. We could have 2v2 as well, which would be another really great way to get more people playing instead of waiting around for 24 people.

2v2 wouldn't be as good as a measurement for skill, because teamwork and yadda yadda, but it's just an idea.

So, what say you?

Also, for the record, this is sort of inspired by the Armored Core franchise and my experience in that series.

This won't work perfectly.

Like, 1v1 is only a general demonstration of raw shooting ability. It doesn't really show too much about the pilot's intelligence.. outside of showing how people go about engagements.

In a team environment, players show intelligence through positioning, repositioning, and timing... not everyone's "skill" is always just raw shooting ability, but in the ability to make good decisions more often than not.


Outside of finding out who will bring the sub-optimal loadout... you will never really challenge players in the same way in a raw shooting ability environment that is 1v1. It doesn't show the entire picture, and whether you agree with it or not... it's not going to teach people the meaning of focus fire. You might learn the point of a paperdoll though... and even that is Lostech for some people.

[Mister Blastman]

I would play 1v1 or 2v2 all the time.

[Aresye]

Product9, on 24 July 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

Guys, you're missing the point. This isn't about Solaris or even about a new game mode per se. This is about replacing or augmenting PSR.

The only skills that translate from 1v1 fights into the team environment of 12v12 are torso twisting and aim.

Teamwork, game sense, and positioning are all equally important, if not MORE important, and your idea would end up ranking players without taking any of those into consideration.