44 replies to this topic

[Spider00x]

I know nothing will come of this post I just want to post this for prosperities sake, but how many times are you going to nerf the black jack PGI.

By many accounts the black jack is superior to the pheonix hawk save a few things but honestly I just want you to admit your nerfing the blackjack to SELL more mediocre phenoix hawks. Its 45 ton competitor.

The black jack is never getting anywhere near a clan mech in order to brawl and doesnt have arms to block any damage. AND NOW its HUGE! how is a 45 ton mech taller than a warhawk it straight up doesnt make any sense.... it had those structure quirks so it could safely move into brawling range. Seriously WHO WAS CRYING for blackjack nerfs, jesus you might as well just rework the whole mech. Its a shame cause it was a great mech with awesome hardpoints to say its a glass cannon now is an understatement.

Like stop messing around with the quirks LET a meta set in and let people adapt to the mechs and the mechs they spend cold hard cash for, there are some glaring exceptions like the kodiak which seems to be the 'pay-to-win' mech of the month. Like just some free advice lay off IS for a while... being the last few mechs were extremely meh its hard enough balancing out the population in FW, its getting harder and harder to convince people to stick around IS.

[mogs01gt]

They should be nerf'd. Those mechs shouldnt get free "tankiness" just because of quirks or odd design.

[Gas Guzzler]

They weren't that tanky before they were enlarged so, I don't see how they are all of a sudden tanky after getting bigger.

[Spider00x]

Its ability to survive because its so huge its easy pickings, like come on why does a pheonix hawk need structure? the mech is designed to be the premier scout mech not a brawling mech, the black jack is designed to brawl. If they are going to keep the size as it is it needs to keep its structure quirks, if not it needs to be at least %20 percent smaller

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Blackjack was exceedingly tough compared to every other 45 ton mech, it did not need massive structure quirks on the arms like it had. And the Phoenix Hawk has a completely different role to the Blackjack. Blackjack has all high mounted weapons in tiny as hell arms with a low top speed, it is meant to take a heavy weapons and support. Now the Blackjack's structure quirks are in line with the other two IS 45 ton mechs. The Phoenix Hawk sold so little due to it was a nostalgia mech and really just a jump capable Wolfhound and people apparently think that sucks as well. People would be more inclined to buy a 45 ton Jenner than another humanoid 'subpar' light mech that is overweight.

The arms of the Phoenix Hawk fall off super fast due to the surface area they cover, a Blackjack gets fire poured into the CT or ST due to they generally have an XL for more speed, more cooling, JJ's, and armor while running as many lasers as it can carry. The arms of the BJ are tiny little things on the side of it that barely block the side torsos and are not easy to focus on, unlike the Phoenix Hawk where they just fall off when anything stares at it too hard. Again, the nerf to the Blackjack doesn't make people want a Phoenix Hawk, it just puts it inline with the rest of the 45 toners for the IS and it will still be better than the Vindicator or Phoenix Hawk because of those tiny little arms and the lower engine cap meaning you can't go full stupid and stuff an XL 355 in it. Instead of throwing a fit how about you try out the other 45 mechs that you can and compare them to the BJ, the BJ is far more survivable than the Vindicator or Phoenix Hawk and generally keeps it's arms until it loses a side torso.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Silly hypothesis.

What about this quirk change would send people flooding toward the PHX order page?

Come on son.

[Gas Guzzler]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 18 July 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Blackjack was exceedingly tough compared to every other 45 ton mech, it did not need massive structure quirks on the arms like it had. And the Phoenix Hawk has a completely different role to the Blackjack. Blackjack has all high mounted weapons in tiny as hell arms with a low top speed, it is meant to take a heavy weapons and support. Now the Blackjack's structure quirks are in line with the other two IS 45 ton mechs.

Yet even with these OP structure quirks it didn't even manage top 10 in the medium mech madness event.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Why is this being posted for my sake? I like the attention, don't get me wrong, but I don't see the connection...




;-)

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 July 2016 - 12:33 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

The BlackJack isn't a brawler.
Several variants are designed for PPCs and AC2s.
It has no arms to block with.
It has JJs to help traverse terrain and get flanking angles.

The Hero Variant is designed to be a backstabbing Rogue.
Sneak over and around terrain to get someone's back, open it, and shred their internals with machine guns.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 18 July 2016 - 12:41 PM.

[Spider00x]

there is no sneaking around in a huge black jack and those machine guns of which you speak are wildly innaccurate outside 120 meters. As for brawling again wtf are you talking about with that many hard points on the 1x what else are you suposed to do... the meta is 4 med lasers 2 mp... the ppc jump sniper will always be a situational mech, the AC2s are for lolz lets face it. These are all opinions.... but honestly your give clan firepower esp. from novas your black jack is toast.

Edited by Spider00x, 18 July 2016 - 12:45 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

Spider00x, on 18 July 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

there is no sneaking around in a huge black jack and those machine guns of which you speak are wildly innaccurate outside 120 meters. As for brawling again wtf are you talking about with that many hard points on the 1x what else are you suposed to do... the meta is 4 med lasers 2 mp... the ppc jump sniper will always be a situational mech, the AC2s are for lolz lets face it. These are all opinions.... but honestly your give clan firepower esp. from novas your black jack is toast.

The AC2 BJ is really strong, when used right- usually from a perch above the enemy raining debilitating screen shake down on them while my team focuses them down.
And I can't tell you how many countless heavies and assaults I've slain in seconds with the archer variant.
I don't even own the 1x. YMMV but there's more to the game than laser vomit.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 18 July 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[NoiseCrypt]

Prosperity Park, on 18 July 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

Why is this being posted for my sake? I like the attention, don't get me wrong, but I don't see the connection...




;-)

I also want sak`e...

[Coolant]

Spider00x, on 18 July 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

I know nothing will come of this post I just want to post this for prosperities sake

I'm not sure what you mean by "prosperities sake". I think maybe you meant for, "posterity's sake", but that doesn't make much sense as it means for future or succeeding generations.

The Blackjack is a laser-vomit mech, that is usually what you see on it. Occasionally you might see ac2s or ac5s. But the issue is the laser vomit with high mounted weapons. Are you one of them that vomits lasers? If you are try thinking outside the box of builds and then make a point. The vomit laser needs to stop and I'm for PGI nerfing all mechs that encourage laser vomit. If you are hurt and whiny because you can't laser vomit as well anymore then stop laser vomiting. Simple...

Edited by Coolant, 18 July 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

So... just for a little thought into why this sort of thing happens...

Even though the Blackjack got a little larger, it was still far and away the best 45-tonner. Notice the Shadowcat and Vindicator (in the middle of the pack) are unchanged, while the two outliers at either end (Blackjack and Phoenix Hawk) have been brought to the middle. We'd call that "normalization."

[PhoenixFire55]

Spider00x, on 18 July 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

the black jack is designed to brawl

Just no. PPCs and AC2s on stock loadouts should tell you smth.

[Y E O N N E]

Coolant, on 18 July 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "prosperities sake". I think maybe you meant for, "posterity's sake", but that doesn't make much sense as it means for future or succeeding generations.

The Blackjack is a laser-vomit mech, that is usually what you see on it. Occasionally you might see ac2s or ac5s. But the issue is the laser vomit with high mounted weapons. Are you one of them that vomits lasers? If you are try thinking outside the box of builds and then make a point. The vomit laser needs to stop and I'm for PGI nerfing all mechs that encourage laser vomit. If you are hurt and whiny because you can't laser vomit as well anymore then stop laser vomiting. Simple...

And what, pray-tell, is one supposed to do with a Blackjack featuring eight energy hard-points and nothing else? A pair of PPCs and some lasers? Still essentially laser-vomit. Some flamers and lasers? Still essentially laser-vomit. There aren't a whole lot of options for it, and I say that as somebody who runs everything but laser vomit on the other variants.

Also, laser vomit builds haven't been the strongest ones going on 6 months now.

[Revis Volek]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 July 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

And what, pray-tell, is one supposed to do with a Blackjack featuring eight energy hard-points and nothing else? A pair of PPCs and some lasers? Still essentially laser-vomit. Some flamers and lasers? Still essentially laser-vomit. There aren't a whole lot of options for it, and I say that as somebody who runs everything but laser vomit on the other variants.

Also, laser vomit builds haven't been the strongest ones going on 6 months now.

and if you do, CLPL is still the way to go.

[Alistair Winter]

This kind of conspiracy theory is vastly overestimating the cunning of PGI's balancing dart board.

[SilentScreamer]

Spider00x, on 18 July 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

I know nothing will come of this post I just want to post this for prosperities sake, but how many times are you going to nerf the black jack PGI.

By many accounts the black jack is superior to the pheonix hawk save a few things but honestly I just want you to admit your nerfing the blackjack to SELL more mediocre phenoix hawks. Its 45 ton competitor.

The black jack is never getting anywhere near a clan mech in order to brawl and doesnt have arms to block any damage. AND NOW its HUGE! how is a 45 ton mech taller than a warhawk it straight up doesnt make any sense.... it had those structure quirks so it could safely move into brawling range. Seriously WHO WAS CRYING for blackjack nerfs, jesus you might as well just rework the whole mech. Its a shame cause it was a great mech with awesome hardpoints to say its a glass cannon now is an understatement.

Like stop messing around with the quirks LET a meta set in and let people adapt to the mechs and the mechs they spend cold hard cash for, there are some glaring exceptions like the kodiak which seems to be the 'pay-to-win' mech of the month. Like just some free advice lay off IS for a while... being the last few mechs were extremely meh its hard enough balancing out the population in FW, its getting harder and harder to convince people to stick around IS.

As others have said, I do not see the Blackjack and Phoenixhawk as having competition for the same role on the battlefield. BJ is fire support, PH is flanker or maybe a slow scout.

However, constantly tweaking the quirk system and adding new mechs will keep the "top" mechs changing. This is important for PGI since players who MUST have THE BEST mech will in theory spend more money. Since players do not pay for map packs or playtime PGI has to make money somehow.

Using myself as an example customer:
- Have Blackjack, Cicada, Centurion, Enforcer and Shadowhawk. If I want a scout medium, I will use the Cicada, so pass on Phoenixhawk.
- Jagermechs are my ballistic carrying heavy so I did not buy the Rifleman.
- Mastered the Highlander, Victor, and Battlemaster but I preordered the Cyclops because I think it will fill a niche. I am okay putting out some $$ in that case.

Do I think the Cyclops will be able to cut through the Kodiak like butter? No. I am not paying for the BEST mech, I am paying for early access and a few extra modules.

Not every release is "pay to win". The Kodiak and Arctic Cheetah went straight to the top of their weight classes as mechs to have upon release. But the BlackKnight, Executioner and Archer were kind of bad, at least till hitbox changes.

Keep in mind, if any one mech is so awesome you have to ask yourself, "why anyone would use a different mech?" then the Nerf Hammer will be dropping very soon.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 18 July 2016 - 08:20 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 July 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

Also, laser vomit builds haven't been the strongest ones going on 6 months now.

I think BlackJack leaderboard strongly disagrees.