4 replies to this topic

[SirSoggyDog]

Defenders' spawn on Hellebore Springs is plagued by a number of issues, and has become one of the more notorious spots in CW.

The most commonly cited issue is the large drop-off that exists on the main route out of spawn. While the drop itself causes minimal damage to a mech, it's rather confusing and frustrating for a player to damage themselves so early in a match, particularly so for CW newbies.

The main outlets for the spawn open right into the main area of fighting. While this is not gravely problematic, it makes it very easy for defenders to reinforce (a double edged sword as new pilots tend to die very rapidly on this map). Whether or not this needs to be altered is debatable, but it certainly should be subject to some discussion.

However, the granddaddy of all gameplay related map issues resides here in the form of a spawn that's, bar none, the worst area in the game for dropship camping. The same drop that damages so many legs also makes it very difficult for a team to deal with dropship campers, particularly if the attackers have no JJs. In the all too common event that the attackers do not have JJs, the only avenue left to assault the spawn is a very dangerous chokepoint that's difficult to move up even when not under fire. The resultant killzone spoils many counterattack games. Yes dropship camping is technically a violation of the TOS, but it's common enough that a map needs to be allow for it to be dealt with by an organized team.

[Jables McBarty]

SirSoggyDog, on 27 July 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

Defenders' spawn on Hellebore Springs is plagued by a number of issues, and has become one of the more notorious spots in CW.

The most commonly cited issue is the large drop-off that exists on the main route out of spawn. While the drop itself causes minimal damage to a mech, it's rather confusing and frustrating for a player to damage themselves so early in a match, particularly so for CW newbies.

Agreed, that is bad base design.

Quote

The main outlets for the spawn open right into the main area of fighting. While this is not gravely problematic, it makes it very easy for defenders to reinforce (a double edged sword as new pilots tend to die very rapidly on this map). Whether or not this needs to be altered is debatable, but it certainly should be subject to some discussion.

However, the granddaddy of all gameplay related map issues resides here in the form of a spawn that's, bar none, the worst area in the game for dropship camping. The same drop that damages so many legs also makes it very difficult for a team to deal with dropship campers, particularly if the attackers have no JJs. In the all too common event that the attackers do not have JJs, the only avenue left to assault the spawn is a very dangerous chokepoint that's difficult to move up even when not under fire. The resultant killzone spoils many counterattack games. Yes dropship camping is technically a violation of the TOS, but it's common enough that a map needs to be allow for it to be dealt with by an organized team.

I'm not sure if I follow. Are you saying it needs to be easier to spawncamp, or harder?

Regardless, I have to take issue with the concept that on all maps should be equally easy/hard to do X. As long as it is balanced within the map, I'm happy.

[Teksorbkyva]

I've always lost defense on Hellebore Springs (but then again, I've always lost Invasion anyways, but that's for another time!). The fact that the enemy team can push through either gate (Usually Alpha) and hold your team's spawn for so long is ridiculous and overpowered. It shouldn't matter now well organized or equipped a team is: spawn should be safe, or at least offer some advantage in terms of cover or altitude so that they aren't immediately in the firing line once they dropped.

Last night was a particularly good example of this. IS defense against Clanners on Hellebore. Although our team was horrible at communication and sharing everything from armor to simple information, the enemy was able to push into our spawn and camp us for easy kills THREE times. It only ended when we ran out of mechs, and only then did they start attacking the base. I wasn't mad at the Unit that primarily comprised the Clan team (228 I believe. They were nice in Match Chat.), but the fact that what they did was possible and so hard to counter.

On another note, do defense turrets even do anything? I don't think I've ever seen a turret fire upon an enemy. If they do actually work,I don't think they don't really serve their purpose.

Edited by Teksorbkyva, 03 August 2016 - 01:05 PM.

[SirSoggyDog]

What I mean to reference by "dropship-camping" is the all to common counter-attack tactic of all the defenders pulling back to their spawn (here they're aided by dropships, rapid reinforcement, etc). While this provides a considerable, albeit beatable, advantage to the defenders on most maps, dropship-camping on Hellebore grants an enormous boost to the defending team that lacks a good counter.

In other words, entire defending team sits in spawn for counter-attack, attackers have to come to them due to gamemode design, the narrow paths and one-way drops at Hellebore's def. spawn force the attackers to walk into the enemy spawn one-by-one on a singular, predictable path, which usually results in the attackers getting annihilated without the chance to fight on a remotely level playing field.

[Imigo Montoya]

it should not be easy to spawncamp anyone, the spawncamping on this map is not very easy but a tactic used, good teams could counter it, so i see no problem.

the option to sit in the spawn and don't get attacked is sad and we used it sometimes after we get a killlead but we also lost one time because the enemy was hard enough to push our spawn and killed more mechs, after that they left and give us the same to swallow, the stayed in the attacker dropzone.