137 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 28 July 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

Loyality as a currency for faction related bling bling camo decal whatever stuff to draw in players.

You know when we went into it yesterday we were looking for very simple stuff that PGI could do right now. Russ made it clear he's game with bigger stuff, so this? This is a great idea I'll make certain it gets into the conversation. We've got a month before the next one.

[Deathlike]

Did I miss the part where the maps were the actual problem, followed by how the gamemodes need actual improvement (specifically Invasion)?

If not, this is a lost cause.

[MischiefSC]

Deathlike, on 28 July 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

Did I miss the part where the maps were the actual problem, followed by how the gamemodes need actual improvement (specifically Invasion)?

If not, this is a lost cause.

Only had 3 hours, which for Russ and co was only time for about 1.5 topics. We all know those are an issue but he wanted to cover compressing population and fixing LT for today.

There's going to be another one next month.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 28 July 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

Only had 3 hours, which for Russ and co was only time for about 1.5 topics. We all know those are an issue but he wanted to cover compressing population and fixing LT for today.

There's going to be another one next month.

Compressing population doesn't fix core interest. What that would actually do long term is annoy whoever's left doing FW, and amplify this when an FW event comes around... reminding people that "this is what you're going to get, and you're going to like it".

That would kill FW far faster than anything else PGI could bandaid with. The patient is dead.

[p4r4g0n]

Based on Russ' response to what Blue Duck had to say about the Loyalist penalty, I got the feeling that he missed the entire point of what the Loyalist penalty is.

Just to be clear, my understanding of the Loyalist penalty is the fact that under previous phases, Loyalist could only earn the FP rewards from their faction. Mercenaries on the other hand could earn FP rewards from all factions.

In Phase 3, Loyalist who have maxed their Loyalty points earn no further rewards, Mercs who maxed out Loyalist FP rewards can now earn Reputation Points.

This demotivates Loyalists and constitutes a penalty. Couple this with the inability to play their Clan mechs, if any, makes being a Loyalist seem pretty pointless unless you are into the whole Lore aspect which in turn is conspicuous by its absence.

Having said that, I thought they did a pretty good job prioritizing what was critical in the time they had. However, I hope that they are cognizant that any boost in FP population through events even after they implement some of the ideas to reduce queue waiting times and decreasing the 12 man vs solo pug stomps is going to be temporary.

In other words, what was discussed this round was far from being a complete solution to the problems with FP. Hope they do a follow up Round Table to address the need to give all players (unit or solo) a vested interest in what happens in FP or this will be another band aid initiative that is not going to last.

[N0MAD]

Deathlike, on 28 July 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

Compressing population doesn't fix core interest. What that would actually do long term is annoy whoever's left doing FW, and amplify this when an FW event comes around... reminding people that "this is what you're going to get, and you're going to like it".

That would kill FW far faster than anything else PGI could bandaid with. The patient is dead.

Totally agree told you days ago that all will come of this is very restricted buckets that will make it seem to those playing they have more people to play with, band aid while they amuse and distract you for countless months with these, "ohh Russ i love youre game sessions" ahhh geezzz.
Ready now for next Mechpack??.
Red vs Blue for CW without even split group/solo q.

[Deathlike]

N0MAD, on 28 July 2016 - 09:46 PM, said:

Totally agree told you days ago that all will come of this is very restricted buckets that will make it seem to those playing they have more people to play with, band aid while they amuse and distract you for countless months with these, "ohh Russ i love youre game sessions" ahhh geezzz.
Ready now for next Mechpack??.
Red vs Blue for CW without even split group/solo q.

See the thing was, the population wasn't a problem in CW/FW Phase 1. Queues were filled, games were had. Alliances and wars were made. It was great in its own weird way. What really killed CW/FW Phase 2 was um... "nothing of consequence" really changed. That started the beginning of the end.

It wasn't that the gameplay was good. People were "tolerating" it, knowing full well it was a beta. The problem however was that PGI didn't even bother to capitalize on that... and that's where everything went horribly wrong.


It isn't even obvious enough to PGI, but if you are getting the proper vibe from the community (aka not getting NGNG to feed you hugs and kisses), then you'd know this. That didn't occur somewhere along the line.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 July 2016 - 09:53 PM.

[AnTi90d]

p4r4g0n, on 28 July 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

Based on Russ' response to what Blue Duck had to say about the Loyalist penalty, I got the feeling that he missed the entire point of what the Loyalist penalty is.

Just to be clear, my understanding of the Loyalist penalty is the fact that under previous phases, Loyalist could only earn the FP rewards from their faction. Mercenaries on the other hand could earn FP rewards from all factions.

In Phase 3, Loyalist who have maxed their Loyalty points earn no further rewards, Mercs who maxed out Loyalist FP rewards can now earn Reputation Points.

The last roundtable was full of MerSenaries. This roundtable was full of MerSenaries. If you listen to MerSenaries more than anyone else, you come out with ideas that benefit MerSenaries.

Benjamin Franklin said:

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

[MischiefSC]

Deathlike, on 28 July 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

Compressing population doesn't fix core interest. What that would actually do long term is annoy whoever's left doing FW, and amplify this when an FW event comes around... reminding people that "this is what you're going to get, and you're going to like it".

That would kill FW far faster than anything else PGI could bandaid with. The patient is dead.

That's why you have vote for alliances, vote for attack planet and combining attack/defend queues. That way you still have total control of your faction and faction identity while being able to shift to where the action is.

Absolutely gameplay needs fixed. No question. A ton of gameplay issues. However those will generally take longer; map fixes for example. That's changing how FW is played and ideally that's something that'll get some testing. In the interim we need to keep the people who are playing able to play with each other. Those fixes, alliance, vote for attack planet, combined attack/defend have a very easy to predict impact and are fast and easy with existing mechanics.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 28 July 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

That's why you have vote for alliances, vote for attack planet and combining attack/defend queues. That way you still have total control of your faction and faction identity while being able to shift to where the action is.

Absolutely gameplay needs fixed. No question. A ton of gameplay issues. However those will generally take longer; map fixes for example. That's changing how FW is played and ideally that's something that'll get some testing. In the interim we need to keep the people who are playing able to play with each other. Those fixes, alliance, vote for attack planet, combined attack/defend have a very easy to predict impact and are fast and easy with existing mechanics.

I would have no problem wanting an alliance with Clan Davion ( ). We'll just keep talking about Kentares IV like it was our business ( ). Seriously though, faction alliances SHOULD be a thing anyways... otherwise there's no point to having Liao or Marik that has never had a Clan intervention (unless they like being invaded by Clanners, which is just as well). I thought lorewise that there were alliances made, and that was to drive the Clans back. I don't even understand how voluntarily allying with other factions is a detriment to the game while increasing the pool of players to work with.

Strength in numbers, or failure in Russ's "vision".... I guess I know what I want.

[Deathlike]

You know, something like natural division of Clan vs IS could work...

We would have "4 groups":
Clans West: Jade Falcon and Wolf
Clans East: Ghost Bear and Smoke Jaguar
IS "Federated Combine": Kurita, Davion, Steiner
IS "*insert clever name here*": FRR, Liao, Marik - maybe "Animal Kingdom"?

You would still be able to do Clan vs IS, Clan vs Clan, and IS vs IS, with a much larger pool, and be able to be somewhat creative in how the "marching plans" go.

Ideally it would be a natural alliance or something, but that's what I would've like to have seen as a population distribution with some variation in a season (if we even still wanted though) and it would've made for interesting bedfellows.

It's just the idea, and it's just sad that we have to do only Clan vs IS... w/o as so much as using a brain to even consider or attempt these things.
You know, something like natural division of Clan vs IS could work...

We would have "4 groups":
Clans West: Jade Falcon and Wolf
Clans East: Ghost Bear and Smoke Jaguar
IS "Federated Combine": Kurita, Davion, Steiner
IS "*insert clever name here*": FRR, Liao, Marik

You would still be able to do Clan vs IS, Clan vs Clan, and IS vs IS, with a much larger pool, and be able to be somewhat creative in how the "marching plans" go.

Ideally it would be a natural alliance or something, but that's what I would've like to have seen as a population distribution with some variation in a season (if we even still wanted though) and it would've made for interesting bedfellows.

It's just the idea, and it's just sad that we have to do only Clan vs IS... w/o as so much as using a brain to even consider or attempt these things.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 July 2016 - 10:13 PM.

[50 50]

Stormbringer13, on 28 July 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

How are any of these going to attract new players to the format? all this does is pay off the few that have remained. Or are we just trying to make ourselves happy while the game slowly circles the drain?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new stuff , especially for Loyalty-based incentives- I'd like camo/color schemes that are house related instead of cockpit stuff in the Loyalty Rewards. My favorite item was the Liao Banner, but that was my only House item.

No, it was line of thought aimed at Sader's comments about a quick 'this month' solution that might entice small units such as VVonkas' back to play. The suggestion being that maybe it is not difficult to implement, gives existing FP players something to do with their LP and may also entice new players to earn the points while also considering longer term option that could be built into it.

Many of the posts I've read like the idea of a big carrot/reward for playing with little regard for much else. The greed factor.
Whether these are old or new players is hard to tell really, but aside from simply increasing the payouts, what other reward based incentives do we currently have that could be tweaked? The loyalty rewards is one option that could be reviewed. If it was better, maybe it would attract players.

Does it actually make the game play any more attractive? No.

Reckon I have shared my thoughts in a variety of posts about what I feel would make the game play both me more appealing to new and old players as well as resolve wait times, add depth and cater for anything from single player to full 12 player drops.... but it's a change that would take more time even though we have many of the elements of it already available throughout MWO.

[MischiefSC]

50 50, on 28 July 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

No, it was line of thought aimed at Sader's comments about a quick 'this month' solution that might entice small units such as VVonkas' back to play. The suggestion being that maybe it is not difficult to implement, gives existing FP players something to do with their LP and may also entice new players to earn the points while also considering longer term option that could be built into it.

Many of the posts I've read like the idea of a big carrot/reward for playing with little regard for much else. The greed factor.
Whether these are old or new players is hard to tell really, but aside from simply increasing the payouts, what other reward based incentives do we currently have that could be tweaked? The loyalty rewards is one option that could be reviewed. If it was better, maybe it would attract players.

Does it actually make the game play any more attractive? No.

Reckon I have shared my thoughts in a variety of posts about what I feel would make the game play both me more appealing to new and old players as well as resolve wait times, add depth and cater for anything from single player to full 12 player drops.... but it's a change that would take more time even though we have many of the elements of it already available throughout MWO.

What's important to understand is we need ALL these options. We need some changes right now. Immediately, to queue formats to compress population and also to LT to preserve what we can population wise and maybe even stabilize a bit. Then we can buy the time to do the bigger, more involved content changes.

THe problem with big content changes is the time involved. If nothing changes in FW for another 2 months there won't be anyone playing.

[MadcatX]

AnTi90d, on 28 July 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

The last roundtable was full of MerSenaries. This roundtable was full of MerSenaries. If you listen to MerSenaries more than anyone else, you come out with ideas that benefit MerSenaries.

As someone who stopped playing CW in both my unit (Golden Foxes) as well as PuG's, I felt that the panel addressed my interests at least the quick fix for some of my gripes (long wait times). I never felt that the panelists from the units were really saying anything that would solely benefit the current active units, just things that would benefit all of us in general. It won't fix CW, but it's a start so there's that. On the contrary to my own expectaions I was pleasantly surprised by the panelists. Other then one of them, and in large part thanks to the preperations of the pre-round table stream, they were generally very upfront and concise about the subjects being discussed.

Edited by MadcatX, 29 July 2016 - 03:19 AM.

[WANTED]

I never understood why they didn't use what was already there? Succession Wars board game from way back would have been a great starting point for economy and grand scale faction warfare. It didn't have the clans but it would have been a good starting point to design from.

https://boardgamegee...succession-wars

[TWIAFU]

Deathlike, on 28 July 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

How would you realistically achieve that?

This is a far more reaching and complicated question to actually answer... because it's easily subjected open to abuse or at least an issue by reducing effective population due to filtering (aka using some form of MM).

We have three queues now and only CW allows for a mix; solo/casual with groups.

Remove and enforce no solo play in CW. Remove and enforce no Trials in CW.

Allowing for solo/casual to play in the deep end of the pool before they can even swim has brought us to this divide.

It must end and end now. Sorry for the talented solo pilots that play in CW, you are an asset to CW, however your contributions are sadly overshadowed by those playing CW when not ready for it in any way, shape, or form.

Unless the goal here is to turn CW into QP with respawn, this must stop. IF the goal here is QP with respawn so pugtards can feel special, we must know and know now. That way all of us that want CW to end game can move on to something else.

[WANTED]

I do think there needs to be some sort of barrier. Not a big one, but experience barrier of some sort before new players can experience FW. That little note before hand does nothing really and they still just jump in.
The problem I see is FW is not FW but really Highly Competitive Team combat. PGI set this up with a dream, as we did too, of what the Succession and Clan Wars could be in Battletech. I remember hearing Russ and his excitement when it launched. What has happened is I think they originally designed for Quick Play, threw some map with some minimal design for gameplay in FW and we ended up here. Nevermind the fact they seem to be all about eSports now as well. That's 3 games in one essentially.
FW took off from Faction Warfare to ultra hardcore mode once the units really began to take part. Now poor pugs and even people such as myself(yes I've been in a very active unit ) have no role there other than to be victims. Maybe they should just rename FW to Hardcore Unit Combat or such. Cause there is no training for pug/new players enterering this area yet and teams that are comprised of half pugs and half units are essentially eliminated just as easily as full pug team.
I heard some of Russ last night on the Round Table. He sounded a bit frustrated. I feel like his heart was in the right place but the design was not. At this point, I think it's best to put up Small Events in FW for rewards as even new players can earn something while getting stomped. Then keep reworking the system based on these roundtable discussions in the background. It might be a year or more before we ever see any of this work but in the end it will be best. That's only if PGI really is serious about FW which sometimes I wonder with their ADHD ways ( Quick Play, now FW, now Esports, etc )

[Commander A9]

This was an outstanding pre-meeting, and it was awesome to sit in and listen in on everyone's ideas.

I hope more people join us for meetings and discussions like this.

And to those who dismissed the invites for these meetings, with excuses like "why would I want to waste my time listening to a bunch of people who ********* everyone in CW," well, hell, wouldn't you WANT to discuss how to improve CW with the people who specialize in playing it to the best of their abilities?

[ScarecrowES]

I'm embarrassed to say, after my unit founder stood up and championed the plight of the Loyalist cause last night, my unit decided to cut ties with Wolf this morning and go Merc. Makes that wonderful moral high ground we stood on last night seem more like a giant pile of bull**** if you ask me. I guess if you can't beat the Mercs, you should join them.

Let the Great Mechbay Hunt begin.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 29 July 2016 - 02:55 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Lol.

You sadly don't get many mechbays as a Merc. A few, but not heaps.


That's the point that was not clearly explained though (I can't remember who was speaking, but it was a poor explanation). It needed to be highlighted the 'mechbay tours' the mercy went on BEFORE Phase 3 launched. That was the killer for loyalists as the Merc's farmed up mechbays hard in the 2 months before Phase 3, myself included.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 29 July 2016 - 04:32 PM.