101 replies to this topic

[AWOL 01]

ScarecrowES, on 30 July 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

TL;DR Version:

Replace or augment the current Invasion mode with one patterned on the Rush gametype. Create roughly 6 new maps with 3 sequential stages - each with a different objective - and 2 separate attack scenarios each depending on which side of the map you start on.

Maps would each be designed with a unique theme built around an actual, thematically-appropriate military objective. Scenarios would be given a degree of immersion and context that makes them feel like an actual mission that might be part of an invasion. Map terrain and composition in each stage of a map will vary but stay true to theme.

Objectives will also be varied - encompassing the full variety of current objective types from both QP and FP, adapted appropriately for the new mode. The varied objectives and map/stage types will allow for more varied mech types, builds, and play styles than currently viable in FP. This will make playing every one of the 12 possible scenarios (if 6 maps created) feel like a completely unique experience, and the tone from stage to stage within the same map will feel unique as well.

More variety, more immersion, more context, better maps, compelling objectives... more FUN.

This sounds GREAT! Now what I'd like to see is:

1. Current 4v4 Scouting mode (with some polishing) with a 35-40 ton drop limit to emphasise the use of Light mechs, which were most common in Battletech lore.
2. This gamemode with 8 players on each side, with 2-4 respawns and a 110 ton drop limit to emphasise the use of Medium and Light mechs, again because they were most common.
3. A final 12v12 push to take the planet using Rebas Kradd's suggested Invasion gamemode, which would emphasise the use of Heavies and Assaults.

This way, the invasion of a planet could be done in phases. The first phase would be the initial spearhead to establish a landing zone on the planet. Once enough Scouting matches are won, the Rush matches would begin to take points of interest on the planet. Finally, when a certain number of Rush matches are won, Invasion matches take place to capture the enemy bases on the planet and, if successful, transfer control of the planet to the attacking team. Or, the attacking team could keep Scouting or Rushing to gain support (artillery, satellites, etc.) for the final push.

[SilentHawk]

This is a great idea! I would love to see this, or something like it in the game. Thanks fir taking the time to put this together.

[AWOL 01]

Jables McBarty, on 01 August 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

I'm flashing back to the Roundtable.

How about a Trigger Warning next time?

[Rhaythe]

Yay! At least SOMEONE was reading my posts when I rambled on and on about ripping off Rush from BF:BC2

[Malleus011]

It's a really great idea, and something I'd like to see attempted. The current CW implementation isn't good, and has driven most of the player base away.

However, PGI seem hell-bent on making 'their vision' of MWO, even if it's clearly not the game their customer base actually wants, or what they originally said they were going to make, and even if 'their vision' has little or nothing to do with the IP they hold the license to. Getting them to listen to feedback and actually change course is extremely challenging. (That's why a lot of older vets are salty; most of us have written our own treatise on one problem or another, only to hear the usual cricket chorus from PGI).

So, good luck, Mechwarriors. It's a good idea, but so far MWO is where good ideas go to die and mediocrity rises to the top.

Edited by Malleus011, 02 August 2016 - 07:05 AM.

[Wulfen]

Love the idea. Sad that it, including individual facets of it, will likely be ignored.

[Mystere]

I'm just dropping this here ...

We need some kind of planetary-level campaign.

Imagine the following (and shamelessly "borrowed") directed graph as a representation of a planetary campaign for "minor" planets:

• Each node is a location on a planet.
  
• Location 3 is a beachhead mission. If the invaders lose, then the invasion is cancelled.
  
• Locations 1, 4, and 5 involve skirmishes.
  
  • If the invaders lose on 1 or 5, the defenders get to counterattack 3.
    
  • If the invaders lose at 4, they are pushed back to 5.
• Nodes 2 and 6 are base assaults.
  
  • While 6 is still in defenders' hands, they get to skirmish on 4 and counterattack on 2.
• Location 7 is a recon mission which needs to be successfully completed before assaults on 2 and 8 are allowed.
  
• Node 8 is an assault on the capital city.
  
  • Invaders take the planet if they win here.
    
  • Defenders get to counterattack at 6 while they hold the capital.
    
  • Defenders get to skirmish at 7, and if successful, push the invaders back to 1.

That is just one way of configuring a campaign using the very simple graph above.

Note that by itself it already has a little more depth than the "take majority of pie slices for the planet" "campaign" "system" we have now.

The above provide the following:

• Directed graphs give players a better feeling of having campaigns and their progress because they actually do have and see them.
  
• There can be several different campaign types and sizes, depending on planet being invaded.
  
• If the CW planetary interface would allow it, small factions can decide when and where to allocate their scarce resources (e.g. send only 3 crack 12-mans to defend assets 6, 7, and 8; alternatively, have their best unit make a last stand at the capital).
  
• Factions can coordinate their units to successfully stall or even halt the enemy's invasion using less resources.
  
• Factions can divert their forces to other "campaigns" that require them.
  
• Ceasefire periods are not required (!!!).

For more ideas, go here.

[Dino Might]

I don't want to see the planet battle broken up into bite-size chunk "matches"

I want grand battle over a humongous map, where multiple fronts are shifting and moving at the same time.
Look here:

http://5.189.162.17/

If you can make something like that, FW will be tops.

[ScarecrowES]

Mystere, on 02 August 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm just dropping this here ...

We need some kind of planetary-level campaign.

Once we have a stable and full-functioning mode to play that brings people into FP and keeps them there I'd LOVE to expand on the depth of the planetary system with ideas like these. I'm not sure MWO can handle some of the complexity and scope of some of this though - sadly it might be meant for a game with a broader base - but it'd be awesome.

[ScarecrowES]

Added a request for interested players to "like" the OP if they found the game type concept interesting. Even if you don't intend to reply to the topic, please express your interest by clicking that "like" button. Hopefully "likes" will turn into "looks" from the dev staff. The more interest the topic shows, the more interest it might garner from the community and PGI.

[Dino Might]

I see the system proposed in http://mwomercs.com/...tch-style-cwfw/ being the most successful of all servers in DCS, which is a hardcore flight sim that is far more limited in user-base than MWO. It is niche to a tee. And yet, the server is always in high demand. It can not only work, but it can easily be the mainstay of MWO, with quick play taking a back seat once the bugs are ironed out. It has the opportunity to be very easy to get into (literally, easy to drop in and start fighting), but very difficult to make a lot of headway, because it actually requires team effort.

It makes everyone dropping on the same side much more involved in helping the team, rather than padding individual stats, because there is no end-of-match screen. You can have your own rewards screen when you log out, but nobody else is paying attention to it. It's all about the battle for the planet that has been going on for the past 5 days, with bases and assets being swapped back and forth in a rapid movement of shifting fronts.

[Mystere]

Dino Might, on 02 August 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't want to see the planet battle broken up into bite-size chunk "matches"

I want grand battle over a humongous map, where multiple fronts are shifting and moving at the same time.
Look here:

http://5.189.162.17/

If you can make something like that, FW will be tops.

No, each node does not necessarily have to be a "bite-sized chunk". It can be the map you described here in another thread.

Small/insignificant planets can have a single map, more important ones can have several, and capital planets can have a lot.

Edited by Mystere, 02 August 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[Deathlike]

I don't think you can solely rely on just one gamemode to provide everything for Invasion. I think that'll be problematic.

Otherwise, I think the gamemode sounds OK. My issue is really this...

Are you able to communicate this concept to Russ? It may seem too complicated to him (something this game has been lacking in general ironically - somewhat more complex gameplay). That would be your biggest hurdle, regardless of how good your idea is.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 August 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

I don't think you can solely rely on just one gamemode to provide everything for Invasion. I think that'll be problematic.

Otherwise, I think the gamemode sounds OK. My issue is really this...

Are you able to communicate this concept to Russ? It may seem too complicated to him (something this game has been lacking in general ironically - somewhat more complex gameplay). That would be your biggest hurdle, regardless of how good your idea is.

Which is why, ideally, we would have several maps and game modes, and several combinations of those would be tied together by a planetary-level campaign system.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 02 August 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

Which is why, ideally, we would have several maps and game modes, and several combinations of those would be tied together by a planetary-level campaign system.

Sure... if you can convince Russ of this.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 August 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

Sure... if you can convince Russ of this.

IRL, when I finally get tired of trying to convince people, I just let them fry in their own fat while I enjoy myself watching it happen.

Then I move on to better things where the rewards are even better.

Edited by Mystere, 02 August 2016 - 04:22 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Deathlike, on 02 August 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

I don't think you can solely rely on just one gamemode to provide everything for Invasion. I think that'll be problematic.

Otherwise, I think the gamemode sounds OK. My issue is really this...

Are you able to communicate this concept to Russ? It may seem too complicated to him (something this game has been lacking in general ironically - somewhat more complex gameplay). That would be your biggest hurdle, regardless of how good your idea is.

One game mode, ultimately, may not be enough - no. However one GOOD game mode is a fine place to start.

Having said that, if maps and objectives are design as I've described it presents a situation where a mere 6 maps presents 12 unique scenarios - each of which should play distinctly different from each other - with up to 36 unique objectives. That offers a degree of variety that simply doesn't exist in MWO currently. If the mode ends up being fun, the inherent variety in that mere 6 maps could make the mode seem much more expansive that it is.

Getting to Russ is a problem. I've emailed him a link here directly to his site account. I've also included a link on Tina's new FP Emerald Taiga update thread, suggesting time might be better spent on this instead.

If folks are interested in this idea and want it to be seen, the best place to start is by liking the OP of the thread and maybe replying with your interests in this discussion and/or expressing your interest to the dev staff in any format you think they'll listen to.

If enough people raise their hands or their voices to say "we want something like this..." well... that might get the devs attentions. The only way to have your voice heard is to speak, I think, even if you aren't sure someone will listen.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 02 August 2016 - 04:36 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

To keep this ball rolling, I'm curious what sorts of scenarios and objectives they might want to play within the scope of the mode I've described in the OP.

For maps: Remember that maps are intended to be themed to an appropriate military objective - something real militaries would likely want to fight over or destroy. I've mentioned a spaceport, mech factory, HPG facility, refinery, hydro-electric dam, etc. And stages are meant to represent different sections of that map theme that form a believable mission structure.

For objectives: These are intended to be direct ports or adaptations of existing objective types in the game. You could also include ideas for using current types of objectives in entirely new ways. An example would be using a modified version of Scouting mode's data node concept for use in my spaceport counter-attack scenario to re-establish the barracks' defenses.

[ScarecrowES]

So hard to keep these things on the front page.

It's so weird. If I were to post something controversial or provocative in any way, I'd have half of the community singing my praises and the other half burning me in effigy. But post something well-reasoned that most players will happily get behind and you can watch your topic die.

Like in politics, satisfied people feel no need to say so. Haha.

[Jack Lowe]

Your proposal is very well presented and I thought something like this would have been the best course of action for the game back when CW phase one was still in development. The dev's decided to go a different route.

That did two things one it caused me to become bored with MWO and games in general, and two got me interested in the process of game development and thereafter programming. So I don't think I've played more than two or three matches since a few months after CW phase 1 was released. That was the final disappointment, on the other hand I had more free time on my hands. You can guess how I filled it.

You mentioned that random spawn points would require little or no coding. Well you would be essentially right. I can devise a proto type for a single map with the possible spawn areas dependent on the objective location in probably two weeks tinkering on it in my spare time. It gets a little more complicated for multiple maps and depends on if all maps objectives and spawns will be created at the start of the mode or if certain completion criteria for one map will affect the potential maps for the next phase adding in differing different objective options and spawn location possibilities would add extra layers of complexity that would make it probably a good 6 month undertaking but I'm far from a ace coder still I feel confident I could bumble my way thru using with only a few exceptions the basic to intermediate knowledge I have.

That sounds like hey they should of done it already wtf, right? Well it's not quite that simple I would be developing the sub system in a vacuum. They have fully running game with no doubt hundreds of thousands of lines of code already written on top of a modified game engine. At this stage and perhaps even back when CW was in development that played a part in things. If they didn't write their code with your idea left at least as an option it could require a lot of code that will have to be dug into and perhaps rewritten in order for it to accept the new system. Then depending on how independent that code is will determine restricted the team is in implementing this idea. It's still certainly doable, and I would love to see them make the change over to your format.

It will just become a more time and resource intensive undertaking the longer it goes undone, and therefore less likely to ever get done. If this turns out to be like other MMO's that have gone before it by the time they get to a point where they need to look at the invasion game mode as an issue and go digging around and perhaps find this post looking for an answer it will probably be to late for this wonderful suggestion to be of use and you may well have moved on to another game and no longer care.