39 replies to this topic

[Der Zivilist]

An Urbie of my own? Sweet!

[Bluey]

The Charger is seen by many as an example of abject failure in BattleMech design.

[Nazraith]

The Zeus is a far superior mech imho too.

Naz

Edited by Nazraith, 17 July 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[DocBach]

I love the VTR-9A Victor that decides five tons of armor and a buttload of flamers is the optimal loadout for an 80 ton 'Mech.

[Jormungaund]

Hah! does anyone else find it amusing that the variant of the Charger is called the Challenger?

[VanillaG]

Sidra, on 17 July 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

I still cant believe they are putting the charger in and not the Zues o.e

I think the reason that the devs are putting it in is free up the Atlas from scouting duty in Lyran scout lances

[Sidra]

VanillaG, on 17 July 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

I think the reason that the devs are putting it in is free up the Atlas from scouting duty in Lyran scout lances

Well as Der said earlier, they might just be putting that in as RP flavor, and not really in the game *crosses fingers*

[buckaroo]

Without Melee, Chargers are kinda pointless.

Let a Charger get close and it will just tear your weapons off and beat you with them.

[Squigles]

Captain Fabulous, on 17 July 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Oh I dunno, a 17-point kick to the leg will break a lot of stuff.

To hell with a 17 point kick, give me the 56 point charge instead. Who cares that it's only got 5 small lasers, that's like ripping into something with 11 medium lasers and change.

[trycksh0t]

If we're talking about hilarious departure from the stock chassis, I nominate the TBT-7K Trebuchet. PPC, AC/5, SRM2. Don't get me wrong, it's actually quite good...but what happened to the missiles?

Then, there's the ridiculous stock 'Mechs, such as the Excalibur or Hoplite....what were the engineers on when they thought those were a good idea?

Excalibur - Gauss and LRM-20, OK, I can get behind that. 7.5 tons of armor? 2 tons of ammo for each weapon...not so good. Being entirely ammo dependent only works if you've actually got the ammo to depend on.

Hoplite - AC/10 (or LB-10X depending on the year), LRM-5....16 heatsinks. Why in the name of all things unholy does that need 16 heatsinks? Drop 2 or 3 and put a couple medium lasers in it. Actually, that wouldn't be a bad 'Mech now that I'm thinking about it...

[Sidra]

Hmm I would say the HawkWolf, seriously if you want a missile support go a catapult (or a blood kite), at least they had some close range weapons, this thing is pure missiles and once you get close it's done for o.e

[Jiri Starrider]

Don't forget. Wasn't really mech engineers that thought this stuff up. It was geeks like us with nothing better to do. Sometimes a bit too insulated, but they didn't have the benefit of vetting things like this on a large audience before it was put to paper and published.

I like that OP Challenger variant on the Charger, and given the hardpoint system should be doable in lab from what I've seen of the vids. Unlike the Swayback for instance.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

i loved reading the chargers story and history in the TRO. they wanted a scout that could survive longer but gave only 5 small lasers so the pilots wouldn't try going stupid and fight their way through the enemy instead of scouting.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Thorgar Wulfson, on 17 July 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

i loved reading the chargers story and history in the TRO. they wanted a scout that could survive longer but gave only 5 small lasers so the pilots wouldn't try going stupid and fight their way through the enemy instead of scouting.

When in reality, a cheap 10 ton Helicopter would have been much better at that mission.

But this is BATTLETECH, we must use Mechs for everything dang it!

[Sidra]

ScrapIron Prime, on 17 July 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

When in reality, a cheap 10 ton Helicopter would have been much better at that mission.

But this is BATTLETECH, we must use Mechs for everything dang it!

Sammich making mech is a go!

[Comguard]

My theory:

Those "extreme" designs often originate from the 3025 readout and the pre-Clan sourcebooks. The reason given was often "field modification" or "some mercenary unit".

My theory on why they did it: because they didn't have that many chassis at that time.

Now, a dozen sourcebooks and field manuals later, you can say: "If you want a medium mech with a PPC, JumpJets and 5/8 movement, go and buy one."
In the past: You had to modify one. Because there were not enough Mech models to cover every possible weapons configuration.

Newer mech designs were guilty of the same fault, but never to a degree that rivals the "ancient" times of BT-variants (Swayback-Hunchback, does not even remotely resemble a Hunchback).

[Bodha]

Major Tom, on 17 July 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'd take a Jenner any day of the week.

but the Charger isn't meant to be a scout. Its meant to be the scouts backup or big brother. While those small lasers dont seem handy, they melee attacks you can pull off with an 80 ton mech that moves fairly quick is useful. Combine that with a complete lack of ammo needs and you got a mech that can stay in the field for extended periods of time.

I know for one thing I used these in TT during campaigns where managing resupply and repairs were a fairly big issue. A damaged light mech is pretty quickly useless since you will lose it in the next fight. A charger on the other hand can take a fair amount of damage before you really need to pull it back for repairs. Can it stand against other assault mechs? No. Can it run from them? Yes. Can it avoid heavies? Yes. Can it run down a light? No, but it can keep them from running down a friendly light.


Just food for thought. Consider a lance of 1 Charger, 2 Phoenix Hawks, and 1 Hermes. The Hermes does the real scouting, the Phoenix Hawks can provide decent energy based long range firepower and the Charger hangs back to cover them when they start getting chased by someone. I used this setup quite successfully on TT. Smart people tended to fall back from the Phoenix Hawks, not so smart people chased them or the Hermes and then found themselves in a melee with a Charger once they had gotten their forces strung out a little bit. Only works well though if your TT group is using a lot of mapsheets. Small mapsheet setups made this kind of tactic a bit harder to accomplish. Since slow mechs could still get across the map in a relatively short amount of time.

[IcePho3nix]

Frankly, I'd probably replace all the small lasers with flamers. Run up to an Atlas, BARBECUE, knock him over, curbstomp the face in, scrape foot on nearby rock, rinse, repeat. All the while running faster than they can track and still being able to take the hits they manage to get in.

Edited by IcePho3nix, 17 July 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[light487]

The Charger tries to be more than it needs to be.. it's neither an Assault mech, nor a Scout mech.. it's halfway in between.. and therein lies the problem with the mech. Essentially the designers of the mech had very clear but RIGID goals. As per the OP, this ended up with a silly mech because the designers, like many real world designers, don't always have the real-world experience to know what is actually good in practical terms... so they stuck to their specific and rigid design goals and the Charger is the result.. a big hulking fridge magnet.

[Kraven Kor]

Less discussion of the ins and outs of the Charger's design philosophy and its tactical or strategic value, more hilarious mech variants, please.

For instance, the Shadowhawk SHD-2D, which tries "to increase the close range capabilities of the Shadow Hawk at great cost to its armor."

Yes, lets take a 55 ton mech, strip off half its armor (5 tons of it), and add some short range weapons...