24 replies to this topic

[DovisKhan]

Every KDK variant costs more than the full pack, I mean how long does it really take to change several values in an admin panel, you could get an intern to do that, normalizing prices accross the board.


Can't you get an intern to do that...

Edited by DovisKhan, 03 August 2016 - 09:59 PM.

[Dino Might]

By making the MC individual purchases exorbitantly expensive, they lure you into thinking the packs are a bargain. It's actually clever marketing.

[Snowbluff]

We knew it would be stupidly expensive. The MC costs scale with the CBill cost. Any assault is expensive and getting 3 in a $20 mechpack is a deal, and the Kodiak is just more so with the maxed out high tech engine.

[DovisKhan]

Dino Might, on 03 August 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

By making the MC individual purchases exorbitantly expensive, they lure you into thinking the packs are a bargain. It's actually clever marketing.

Bargain or not is debatable,however 20 for multiple variants of a character (mech in this case) is completely ordinary


~30 USD for a character (mech for MC) is outright ludicrous because that's a price of a big expansion pack, a founders bonus, season pack or any other substantial thing of the sort

Snowbluff, on 03 August 2016 - 10:01 PM, said:

We knew it would be stupidly expensive. The MC costs scale with the CBill cost. Any assault is expensive and getting 3 in a $20 mechpack is a deal, and the Kodiak is just more so with the maxed out high tech engine.

The fact that it's an assault with better engines and that's why it's a deal compared to other mechs is just an indication of a bigger problem - not normalized/balanced pricing/mechs across the bioard.


Buying and playing a Locst should be no less rewarding and hence priced the same as a Kodiak

[Revis Volek]

Dino Might, on 03 August 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

By making the MC individual purchases exorbitantly expensive, they lure you into thinking the packs are a bargain. It's actually clever marketing.

Maybe, But they also have made their own "premium" currency less of a value by doing so. It may sell a few more mech packs but it also turns off many off. I would rather buy chassis' that have proven to ne worth the money with MC then buy packs all the time. I dont always want all the mechs or maybe i just want a hero of a variant I already own. If its an assault i wouldn't dare buy it at all because its not worth it. I have bought some lights and medium heroes during half price sales.

I dont think it really sells that many more and PGI and Clever are rarely seen in the same sentence.

[DovisKhan]

Revis Volek, on 03 August 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

Maybe, But they also have made their own "premium" currency less of a value by doing so. It may sell a few more mech packs but it also turns off many off. I would rather buy chassis' that have proven to ne worth the money with MC then buy packs all the time. I dont always want all the mechs or maybe i just want a hero of a variant I already own. If its an assault i wouldn't dare buy it at all because its not worth it. I have bought some lights and medium heroes during half price sales.

I dont think it really sells that many more and PGI and Clever are rarely seen in the same sentence.

^This


Also the inconsistency comes off very unprofessional, It's like they don't even know what they're doing


Someone in the company must have a huge ego that clouds better judgement, I mean there's plenty really successful companies with superb payment models, when you have so many good examples, copying should be an option, now MWO has a very unique payment model and not really in a good way, If Kodiaks would be 6.57 USD a piece, I am willing to bet most people that spent any money would have bought them to try and would buy them many times over when they wanted so sell them and get Cbills

Edited by DovisKhan, 03 August 2016 - 10:47 PM.

[Dino Might]

Revis Volek, on 03 August 2016 - 10:26 PM, said:

Maybe, But they also have made their own "premium" currency less of a value by doing so. It may sell a few more mech packs but it also turns off many off. I would rather buy chassis' that have proven to ne worth the money with MC then buy packs all the time. I dont always want all the mechs or maybe i just want a hero of a variant I already own. If its an assault i wouldn't dare buy it at all because its not worth it. I have bought some lights and medium heroes during half price sales.

I dont think it really sells that many more and PGI and Clever are rarely seen in the same sentence.

The concept is clever. Their implementation? That's up for debate. I, personally, think they could restructure pricing and get a larger and more consistent profit. But I have no data and only hunches to support this line of thinking.

All I know is how much I have spent on this game and how much I regret spending on it. I recognize that a fair portion of what I spent was in part due to the above sales strategy in combination with my nostalgia for particular chassis. Water under the bridge. But I can say with a clear head now that I think (again, personally) that $20 for a mechpack is not worth it. By extension, it is obvious the MC prices are not worth it. But again, they let the MC prices remain high and don't bother making them competitive to drive more pack sales. It seems to be working quite well...

Edited by Dino Might, 03 August 2016 - 10:50 PM.

[lazytopaz]

Just vote on their decision with smart choices and your wallet. Don't buy it. When they see no one in their right state of mind is buying the overpriced mechs, then maybe at some point some of those ppl will start to actually use their heads for more than carrying around their hair.

[SmokeGuar]

Kodiak MC price does not differ from other Clan mechs, they have been absurdly high all along.

High cbill price, high MC price is norm, and accordingly IS players its just fine.

Thing is: if you buy IS mech with MC, everything else, engine and weapons can be bought with cbills. On Clan mechs engine is locked and main basis for high price tag.

All of this prevents introducing Clan hero and champion mechs.

Results? People flocking IS side or quitting game.

[PyckenZot]

DovisKhan, on 03 August 2016 - 09:58 PM, said:

Every KDK variant costs more than the full pack, I mean how long does it really take to change several values in an admin panel, you could get an intern to do that, normalizing prices accross the board.

DovisKhan, on 03 August 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

~30 USD for a character (mech for MC) is outright ludicrous because that's a price of a big expansion pack, a founders bonus, season pack or any other substantial thing of the sort

Having a pre-order cost way less than the actual mech is very normal marketing.

Having single mechs cost more than packages is very normal marketing.

Having a top tier vehicle cost somewhere in the 30 euros is actually fairly cheap when compared to prices on other similar games*.

*EDIT - especially seen the fact that you can get it for free if you show patience. Try that with premium vehicles in the "World of" series,...

There is no issue.

Edited by PyckenZot, 04 August 2016 - 04:09 AM.

[Paigan]

DovisKhan, on 03 August 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bargain or not is debatable,however 20 for multiple variants of a character (mech in this case) is completely ordinary


~30 USD for a character (mech for MC) is outright ludicrous because that's a price of a big expansion pack, a founders bonus, season pack or any other substantial thing of the sort



The fact that it's an assault with better engines and that's why it's a deal compared to other mechs is just an indication of a bigger problem - not normalized/balanced pricing/mechs across the bioard.


Buying and playing a Locst should be no less rewarding and hence priced the same as a Kodiak

The difference really is that a Mech is not a character.

Consider this:

Classical "Characters" in games are more less equal regarding their "substance". So no matter if it's a 50kg girl or a 150kg hulk, it's "one person".

Mechs, on the other hand, are vehicles comprised of parts. Every part can be bought with C-Bills.
Heavier Mechs contain more parts. E.g. more weapons. More substance.
Therefore, heavier Mechs MUST cost more C-Bills to be BALANCED.

SO:
- Mech can be bought for C-Bills
- C-Bills can be bought for MCs
- Logical conclusion (in order to get BALANCE): heavier / techier Mechs MUST cost more MC.

Because they are NOT equally worthy characters. They are equipment.

It saddens me from time to time that because of this relation, a small Mech, that takes roughly the same amount of time to create, yields less income.

Maybe the solution would be to sell "Mech chassis piloting licences" or "~ trainings" for MC and those could have a flat price because they do not depend on the amount of equipment.


tl;dr:
Understand basic math and the meaning of the word "balance".

[DovisKhan]

Paigan, on 04 August 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

The difference really is that a Mech is not a character.

Consider this:

Classical "Characters" in games are more less equal regarding their "substance". So no matter if it's a 50kg girl or a 150kg hulk, it's "one person".

Mechs, on the other hand, are vehicles comprised of parts. Every part can be bought with C-Bills.
Heavier Mechs contain more parts. E.g. more weapons. More substance.
Therefore, heavier Mechs MUST cost more C-Bills to be BALANCED.

SO:
- Mech can be bought for C-Bills
- C-Bills can be bought for MCs
- Logical conclusion (in order to get BALANCE): heavier / techier Mechs MUST cost more MC.

Because they are NOT equally worthy characters. They are equipment.

It saddens me from time to time that because of this relation, a small Mech, that takes roughly the same amount of time to create, yields less income.

Maybe the solution would be to sell "Mech chassis piloting licences" or "~ trainings" for MC and those could have a flat price because they do not depend on the amount of equipment.


tl;dr:
Understand basic math and the meaning of the word "balance".

You can't lawyer your way out of the fact, that this game doesn't exist in a vacuum and will be compared to others


For comparisons to make at least some sense, approximations will be made


So yes in a sense a 100 ton Atlas in MWO is equal to an anime looking girl in school outfit in some Korean MMO


You play them both and do stuff in the world they inhabit and it costs money to dress and equip them. Hour wise it also costs similarly to develop either, because the process of development is the same.




Now you touched two subject that I mentioned as well

1) balance or lack of it

2) MC/Cbill price


1) In a PvP multiplayer shooter, characters should be balanced, otherwise why gimp yourself picking the obviously inferior one and how can it be taken seriously as an E-sport


2) MC/Cbill prices are unstable, meaning that you can get a 20 USD pack or 30 USD pack and get less from the 30 USD one, that's plain ****** accounting and distorts demand because you are much likelier to gravitate a better deal money wise, because why not

[DovisKhan]

PyckenZot, on 04 August 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

Having a pre-order cost way less than the actual mech is very normal marketing.

Having single mechs cost more than packages is very normal marketing.

Having a top tier vehicle cost somewhere in the 30 euros is actually fairly cheap when compared to prices on other similar games*.

*EDIT - especially seen the fact that you can get it for free if you show patience. Try that with premium vehicles in the "World of" series,...

There is no issue.

There is no preorder cost difference, because you can buy the pack now as well


So you can pay 20 or 90 USD for the same 3 Kodiaks RIGHT NOW



30 EUR is still a heck of a lot by comparison, you can get multiple AAA games on steam sale for that for example, again this game doesn't exist in a vacuum, I do get my moneys worth out of it and I don't regret spending 20 EUR for mechpacks ~every month and some more for skins/colors/decals, but price inconsistency irks me, like wtf with that

[PyckenZot]

DovisKhan, on 04 August 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

So you can pay 20 or 90 USD for the same 3 Kodiaks RIGHT NOW

Pay 20 then,... what problem do you have with PGI still offering a cheaper pack?

DovisKhan, on 04 August 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

30 EUR is still a heck of a lot by comparison, you can get multiple AAA games on steam sale for that for example, again this game doesn't exist in a vacuum, I do get my moneys worth out of it and I don't regret spending 20 EUR for mechpacks ~every month and some more for skins/colors/decals, but price inconsistency irks me, like wtf with that

Who cares about triple A titles in this discussion. One needs to compare apples to apples,...
Quick check on World of Warships as an example showed me 45 euro and 40 euro for the 2 most expensive tier VIII premium ships. These are ships you cannot, ever, buy for free.

The KDK-SB, the MWO equivalent of a Tier X premium costs 10 euro less.

*I buy the packs that I want as well and like most of them. As such price inconsistencies don't apply to me.

Edited by PyckenZot, 04 August 2016 - 05:32 AM.

[Flitzomat]

It is math.
Fact one: There is a defined model how much a ton costs on clan and IS side (you can find it somewhere on the forums).
Fact two: The Packages were always cheaper
Fact three: If people ar not able to do the math they deserve to pay the MC bill

[mailin]

This is a funny thread. If you don't like the prices, don't buy it. They will be available for C-bills, so in the mean time, just move along.

[Ghogiel]

IIRC the MC cost is derived from the cbill cost of the variant and thus are already normalized.

They only way to normalize the prices is to change the flat fee of the mech packs.

OP is asking for the basic KDK mechpack to be like $80+ because locusts cost $20. Just stop.

Edited by Ghogiel, 04 August 2016 - 05:25 AM.

[Requiemking]

Unfortunately, the Cbill price will equally outrageous. MWO's pricing system is annoying because it adds the equipment cost to the base cost of every chassis. That why mechs like the Centurion D are insanely expensive compared to other variants, they have fancy toys and you need to pay for them. Sadly, PGI is on record saying that they will not lower the prices on clan mechs.

[DovisKhan]

mailin, on 04 August 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

This is a funny thread. If you don't like the prices, don't buy it. They will be available for C-bills, so in the mean time, just move along.

I don't like the fact you can buy the same thing for either 20 or 90, i don't like the inconsistency, read before you write

[Mawai]

As someone pointed out ... the pricing that PGI uses has been the same for years.

Mech MC cost scales with cbill costs ... so clans cost more because they are more expensive and have more expensive gear. Individual mechs have always been more expensive than packs of mechs.

However, the issue you are pointing out is that instead of scaling the pack pricing to cbill values as they had in the past ... they introduced a new pricing model for the individual pack mechs. $20 base, $40 collector, +$15 for hero. Nice simple system but completely unrelated to the cbill value of the mech. This discrepancy has been present for EVERY other individual mech pack released ... however, the Kodiak is the most expensive cbill mech in the game ... 100 tons with a large XL engine ... so its individual MC price is the highest. The result is that the pack price is then extremely low compared to the individual MC sale prices for the individual mechs in the pack. So much so that the entire pack costs substantially less than an individual variant purchased separately for MC.

The entire reason for this is the two contradictory pricing models in use ... $20 fixed pack pricing for 3 mechs with mechbays and extras vs the cbill to MC scaled pricing model.

I've seen some people complain that the $20 price point was too HIGH for the cheaper mechs ... whereas it is an extreme bargain for assaults.

The system is not consistent but I don't expect PGI to change things up at this point since too many people have purchased individual mechs and packs under both systems ... so if they make a big change in pricing structure they will invariably irritate some fraction of the player base. As a result, they will likely stick with periodic sales as the main driver for revenues.