27 replies to this topic

[Noey Bunny]

I just thought i'd post up on this little oddity and provide my personal experience with it.

After getting every variant of this mech and having attempted to run it in just about every way, ((ERSL Scalpel build, SPL 6-8, SPL+SRM4, MPLx4/5, SPL+MG, ERLL and ERML+LPL) I've found that this is an absolute joy to pilot and play with. Except for two massive draw backs.

A. it's absolutely incapable of taking ANY hit what so-ever, the idea that it's mobility is it's strongest defense is a quixotic notion at best. I'm PSR3 and the reality of it, is no amount of peeking or dodging in ANY mech can often time sway the aim of high skill players. MUCH LESS when the target is a medium sized mech. Not all of this is the mechs fault, I understand sometimes I'm out of position and peek the wrong corner, or simply unlucky and wind up looking down the barrel of well.. any mech really. Which is the biggest primary problem, Any pilot, in any mech that can remotely aim, and alpha, (aiming isn't too hard either, it's not a small target) will gib a viper into oblivion. the 6x SPL ach can strip all the armor off through front CT with a single barrage or nearly remove an arm and ST from the front. without structure or armor quirks, I'm left wondering why I would want to pilot the viper over literally any other light or medium mech?

B. Another large problem is it's complete inability to utilize it's large amount of hardpoints efficiently. with plenty of podspace it feels nice to be able to strap on 8 SPL, or 11 ERSL. but with the largest effective majority of that coming from quirkless components, the omnimech value of the viper begins to rapidly fall apart. Do I abandon it's core attributes of agility and speed? (An already frightening concept given it's aforementioned lack of armor or structure, meaning the first time an enemy player looks at you sternly your arms will almost indefinitely pop off like some kind of crude childs toy.) so then I stick to the side torso mounts, and use the arms as best as i can as shields, which they are rather poor at, while I mount a few MPL's or what not and try to make due with what I've got, sacrificing my ability to deal with immediate threats like medium or lights that want to brawl with me, an almost guaranteed losing battle with my slow refiring weapons and paper mache armor.

All in all, this mech has lots of potential, but sorely misses the point. having quirks locked behind an 8 piece bonus hurts, and completely defeats the purpose of the omnimech parts. and lacking any structure, or armor quirks puts the nail in the coffin for it's survivability, it's speed is nice, but it's simply too large, and too squishy of a target to be very viable in any situation where the enemy isn't literally a carp. Because of these two huge glaring issues, it lacks any real value in gameplay, and feels mostly just very frustrating. having a rifleman pop me around a corner with 2x ac20's after a couple laser sweeps in general combat feels very awful, and it's not an experience anyone wants to have, yet it's a very common experience in the viper.

I'm not YET disappointed with my 50$ purchase, as like i previously said, the mech feels like it has great potential. I would rather it be introduced underpowered, than overpowered, I'm not interested in pay to win. However, this mech DOES need some attention. other mechs of it's class have massive bonuses in quirks and many other ways. whether it's ECM, better armor and structure, better hit boxes, or in some cases, all of the above. I find myself having to put this away for now in hopes that it will at some point become a mech that I can master without the inevitable death to any opponent that has hands.

((sorry for the wall of text, I just felt this needed to be addressed, thanks for the read! I'm interested to hear other peoples thoughts and experiences too!))

[Andi Nagasia]

its ok, but the ACH is better in almost every way,
and with Structure Quirks only 10Hp separates them,
the Catch is the ACH is also much Smaller as well,

Also its Full-Set Quirk Bonuses Penalize it for Being an OmniMech,
something i hope they dont continue doing, some Full-Set Bonuses are Fine,
but dont hide all its Ability to Fight behind Making it an over Locked BattleMech,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 10 August 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[Noey Bunny]

Andi Nagasia, on 10 August 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

its ok, but the ACH is better in almost every way,
and with Structure Quirks only 10Hp separates them,
the Catch is the ACH is also much Smaller as well,

Also its Full-Set Quirk Bonuses Penalize it for Being an OmniMech,
something i hope they dont continue doing, some Full-Set Bonuses are Fine,
but dont hide all its Ability to Fight behind Making it an over Locked BattleMech,
Edit- Spelling

Yes, I generally agree, the 8piece bonus should be the 'icing on the cake' like it is with practically any other omnimech. it's very much a lose lose situation to lock the only quirk bonuses the mech gets behind what is essentially turning it into a standard battlemech.

As far as the ACH is concerned, it's a very strong contender and functions in the same ways that the viper does. while the ACH has minutely less HP, it's significantly tankier because of it's ECM and small stature, plus it's capable of spreading damage much more effectively with torso twisting than I've found the viper to be capable of because of the strangely large hitboxes on the very squishy side torso, and tiny t-rex arms that don't block any of the hitbox very well.

[Andi Nagasia]

Mapped the HitBoxes,

this Explains the Easy ST Loss, but they are good HitBoxes,
it just needs some ST and Leg Structure love, to help it out,

[Noey Bunny]

Andi Nagasia, on 10 August 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

Mapped the HitBoxes,

this Explains the Easy ST Loss, but they are good HitBoxes,
it just needs some ST and Leg Structure love, to help it out,

yeah, I've seen the image of the hitbox map, it's kind of deceptive, there's very little chance that shots will land on your CT from the front, in practice, I almost exclusively get hit in the ST.

[Pyrocolonic]

I feel very much the same way. It's an interesting mech, but requires much more finesse that I bargained for. My biggest gripe is the Viper Superjump bug/feature. I am usually very good at timing my jumps to provide ample fuel for a safe landing. The Viper, for what ever reason, just decides to keep soaring, to hell with reserve fuel.

Does the fact it has 8 jump jets cause issue with the game engine? I don't have this issue on my other high jumping mechs, but I tend to keep them around 5 to 6 JJ. Perhaps reducing the JJ from 8 to 5/6 would be worth looking into. Maybe cut down on superjumps and also free up 1/1.5 extremely valuable tons.

[eminus]

nerf the jump distance its like UAV with guns!

[James Warren]

Pyrocolonic, on 10 August 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

Does the fact it has 8 jump jets cause issue with the game engine? I don't have this issue on my other high jumping mechs, but I tend to keep them around 5 to 6 JJ. Perhaps reducing the JJ from 8 to 5/6 would be worth looking into. Maybe cut down on superjumps and also free up 1/1.5 extremely valuable tons.

I suspect its something to do with collision boxes (either other players or terrain). I used to get the same issue when the Shadowcat first arrived, especially because I was so used to 'sliding' up the front of a vertical obstacle with other mechs.

I would agree with every point made in the OP. Most light mechs have better durability in practice and can mount the same amount of weaponry. I want to love the Viper, it's just more frustrating than fun when you're at such a disadvantage. Honestly get more satisfaction from the MLX.

[PyckenZot]

In essence the VPR is such a good mech imho. I had so much fun in it that it incited me into continue buying mech packs. It's a flying BFG2000

[RestosIII]

I've lost all ability to judge if a mech is good or not, due to how often I'm running super stock builds. With that said, I despise fighting Vipers. Their surgical ability with heat efficiency.akes my Warhawk Prime weep. I also envy it a great deal as a sad at pilot. Tons of hardpoints and can still jump wonderfully.

[Alistair Winter]

I think you're crazy. To me, the Viper feels tanky as hell, except that it keeps losing its arms. This is why I love the 8cSPL build, because it has slightly more guns than you need, and losing an arm doesn't really mean too much. 8cSPL is definitely better than 6cSPL, just as long as you don't alpha all the time. But losing 2 of them is not a problem.

I think the 8-pod bonuses need to be significantly increased in order to make them worthwhile, I agree.

I would welcome some structure bonuses, especially to the arms, but this is a very good mech. Relatively few people complained that it was underpowered, and practically no one complained that it was OP. That's right where you want new mechs, in my opinion.

My favourite builds:

• 8cSPL
  
• 6cERSL + 2cSRM4
  
• 6cSPL + 4cMG

Unfortunately, since I only have 1 Medusa and no Reinforcement pack, I can't experiment too much with missile builds. I tried 3cSRM4 + 2cERSL, but it wasn't for me. Feels like it needs to be 4cSRM4 or 3cSRM6+Artemis in order to really have enough oomph.

[Noey Bunny]

Alistair Winter, on 11 August 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

I think you're crazy. To me, the Viper feels tanky as hell, except that it keeps losing its arms. This is why I love the 8cSPL build, because it has slightly more guns than you need, and losing an arm doesn't really mean too much. 8cSPL is definitely better than 6cSPL, just as long as you don't alpha all the time. But losing 2 of them is not a problem.

I think the 8-pod bonuses need to be significantly increased in order to make them worthwhile, I agree.

I would welcome some structure bonuses, especially to the arms, but this is a very good mech. Relatively few people complained that it was underpowered, and practically no one complained that it was OP. That's right where you want new mechs, in my opinion.

My favourite builds:

• 8cSPL
  
• 6cERSL + 2cSRM4
  
• 6cSPL + 4cMG

Unfortunately, since I only have 1 Medusa and no Reinforcement pack, I can't experiment too much with missile builds. I tried 3cSRM4 + 2cERSL, but it wasn't for me. Feels like it needs to be 4cSRM4 or 3cSRM6+Artemis in order to really have enough oomph.

I liked it with 6cSPL + 4cSRM4, it had nice punch to it, but I found people are much more apt to respond to taking missiles in the back than a couple of pew pews. that being said, you're the first person i've ever seen to say it's 'tanky', lol. Most of the reviews and posts I've seen about it have been more in line with debate about their choice to lock the quirks behind 8pc bonus, or ST variants that have less/no hardpoints. while I have a hard time addressing that, since by preference I can say I can't stand that decision, I don't really have a way to consider it's actual game balance because I don't have any hard variables or statistics.

I don't feel that 'tankiness' is there, even with it's mobility. it's simply a squishy mech with some awkward hitboxes that cause ST to melt when you get shot up. and I feel like balancing should be made to skill cap. so while it's suggested to be a high skill ceiling mech given it's 'squirrely' nature. I can't see under many circumstances that an equally skilled shooter would miss against this, any more than they miss against a cicada, which gets structure quirks, even it's arms, which are literally just armor for it's ST for profile shots.

(edit- I should also add that the trade off between the cicada and the viper is negotiable too, cicada getting a ton or so of pod space over the viper if you use the largest engine and taking the "Mandatory ECM" which i feel is the trade off for the locked JJ's, where the viper gets more hard points/weapon combinations, for so as long as you don't mind losing your battlemech 8piece bonuses)

Edited by Kittenkawa11, 11 August 2016 - 06:47 AM.

[KodiakGW]

8 locked Jump Jets.

[Noey Bunny]

KodiakGW, on 11 August 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

8 locked Jump Jets.

LOL yeah, because I want 1/10th of my total tonnage or what is potentially a 3rd of available weapon tonnage dedicated to 8 jump jets.

[Rock Roller]

I purchased the ultimate pack. Barely played it a couple of days and parked it. It feels like a jumping locust. Cheetahs are far better. Another bad purchase. I do know that they gave the Phoenix just enough love on the next patch to make it much more rewarding to pilot. Maybe some hope for the Viper yet.

[Mystere]

eminus, on 10 August 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

nerf the jump distance ...

No way in hell! It allows me to fly into places that were never possible to get to before.

Edited by Mystere, 13 August 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[KHETTI]

Hey kitten there's one variant that gets erppc quirks, stick a single peep on it and jump snipe all day long!.

[Carlieth]

I thought the Viper was a horrible mech after I played it. But after experimenting with builds and such I have found a build I like and mastered the chassis. I found 5 x Ersml and an ERPPC has made this a fantastic sniping mech. Couple that with the sniping spot I found that only the phoenix hawk or tweeked Viper can reach and you pretty much can snipe with impunity as long as you know how to keep you head down

This mech is a joy to pilot and requires waaaay more skill to survive than in any ACH. I am a converted MechWarrior.

[Navid A1]

Alistair Winter, on 11 August 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

I think you're crazy. To me, the Viper feels tanky as hell, except that it keeps losing its arms. This is why I love the 8cSPL build, because it has slightly more guns than you need, and losing an arm doesn't really mean too much. 8cSPL is definitely better than 6cSPL, just as long as you don't alpha all the time. But losing 2 of them is not a problem.

I think the 8-pod bonuses need to be significantly increased in order to make them worthwhile, I agree.

I would welcome some structure bonuses, especially to the arms, but this is a very good mech. Relatively few people complained that it was underpowered, and practically no one complained that it was OP. That's right where you want new mechs, in my opinion.

My favourite builds:

• 8cSPL
  
• 6cERSL + 2cSRM4
  
• 6cSPL + 4cMG

Unfortunately, since I only have 1 Medusa and no Reinforcement pack, I can't experiment too much with missile builds. I tried 3cSRM4 + 2cERSL, but it wasn't for me. Feels like it needs to be 4cSRM4 or 3cSRM6+Artemis in order to really have enough oomph.

How can you have 4xMG and 3xSRM builds if you don't have the reinforcement pack?

[DrSaphron]

I've found the Viper to be horrifically fragile as well and locking ALL the quirks to the 8 piece set absolutely kills it. I only got the basic pack but I honestly feel like the $20 I spent on it would have been better spent if it'd been doused in lighter fluid and set ablaze.