156 replies to this topic

[HauptmanT]

Just to add more anectodal evidence...

When I play the Locust PB, I can tell pretty quick if the match is gonna be a win, loss or roll.

When I get into the enemies rear, and light up that atlas with my tag laser, if absolutely nothing happens, we are going to lose. If LRMs come out of the woodwork and my c-bills start flying in, we're going to roll these chumps.

[MW222]

El Bandito, on 12 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

That's understandable. Due to the skill tree system, fresh mechs perform less than they could, affecting your overall contribution to the team's victory. You can try to mitigate that by purchasing few inexpensive but important skills with GXP, such as cool run, heat capacity, and accel/decel, when you pilot a brand new mech.

To add my two cents to 'El Bandito' quite correct points.

I have about 675 hours in assaults (Atlas's) mostly and if I switch to a different class / weight I get wracked in the first three minutes of the first few (more then a few sometimes) matches. You have to re learn your moves, the faster travel or lack of speed, the lack of armor and so on. When you would get stuck on a tree or rock before, now in a different mech can run up a wall, jump over a tree. Your play style while an over all modifier of your play has to be changed by the class of mech you drop in. Leveling up, mastering a new mech can be a real pain in the pelvic plate.

Edited by MW222, 13 September 2016 - 04:28 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

^ aye. I went from piloting Atlas brawlers to ERPPC Poptarting with SHC's.

Totally different way of battle, use of the mech. Glad I spent 2-3 months in a SHC learning how to play that style. It's added a great dynamic and can regularly do some very decent damage while turning a lot of bigger mechs around and causing general mayhem when a battle breaks out... Plus information is power so using comms to report in what is going on around the place, more wins than losses ensue.

HauptmanT, on 13 September 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Just to add more anectodal evidence...

When I play the Locust PB, I can tell pretty quick if the match is gonna be a win, loss or roll.

When I get into the enemies rear, and light up that atlas with my tag laser, if absolutely nothing happens, we are going to lose. If LRMs come out of the woodwork and my c-bills start flying in, we're going to roll these chumps.

PMSL! Made my day @ cbills flying in.

You always know there are LRMs in solo queue

Edited by justcallme A S H, 13 September 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[MrMadguy]

I think, it's pointless waste of time to ask such questions here - cuz we all don't know the answer and wonder, why it happens. You're actually lucky, cuz it started to happen with you just recently. Cuz for me this crap started to happen long ago - around implementation of 12vs12, 3/3/3/3 and Clans. Simple answer - MM is terribly broken and there is nothing, you can do about it. *Sorry for conspiracy theories* May be it's black list, may be it's some sort of hidden ratings - we don't know. But system is simple - no matter, what rating you have, longer you play, more terrible your matches are, like PGI want your to quit this game after investing enough money into it, so you won't put extra load on their servers. I had been normally playing this game since Open Beta till release of Clans. How much time is it? I guess, it's the same 2 years. So 2 years of playing - and you're forced to quit. And PGI completely ignore this problem. So may be system is working as intended? Make alt accounts to reset your rating or quit. Don't forget, that while you have cadet bonus - rating is being boosted much faster - try to be as terrible in your first ~30 matches, as possible. As I've already said, I would make alt account, if I wouldn't have invested too much into this account.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 September 2016 - 02:58 AM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

PORONOPAPOS, on 14 September 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

1. this idea is totally wrong, cause basically says that one player's act decides the outcome more than the acts of the rest of 23 players. If that was true then every team that has one disco/afk would lose 100% of times.

2. my data says that despite seeing same players in both accounts (T1 and T2) stomps mainly happen in my T1 account. See my last post : 3 players of the enemy team were so totally unaware that never saw my Mad Dog shooting their back from 50m away, this happened in my T1 account. How this makes them skilled T1 players ?

3. from my experience snowball happens for 3 reasons :
1. 2-3 players die very early either by get left behind or because they charge one by one to the enemy position. I've never done the latter, I many times died in an assault after left alone behind (but that's team fault not mine)
2. team stays static and/or in a bad position. As I wrote above the moment I see this I run away and usually I'm not the first to die by doing this.
3. MM didn't create even skilled teams so one or both the above will happen, resulting in another stomp.

3. I played for a long time both your mechs, Mad Dog (97 alpha LOL), Warhawk (91 alpha), their success is very situational, you can do better if you focus on mechs that already have lost some armor.

1. Yes a player's action affects the battle. Tiers play together, and from my experience, T1 players are weighted much higher on the MM. At T1 you are expected to know how to play MWO and play it well. Also the MM nicely gives you a team of lower Tier Players to carry. If your team's T1 players does not carry and the opposition teams does. Your team automatically is at a disadvantage. If everyone In you team is just that little bad it adds up to a huge problem.

2. Stomps happen when your team melts (aka scatter) or is not together in the first place. If you are already no longer with the team, you cannot do anything to stop a Stomp. And again in MWO, you cannot trust the other guys to do anything properly (save you alot of rage). At any Tier, it starts with you. At T1, even MWO expects it to start with you.

3. People that die early usually screwed up. Which already put your team at a disadvantage. Seriously as the Tier system is based on experience and maybe skill. You cannot expect anyone else to be good. And since MWO expects higher Tier players to compensate for lower Tier players... All I got to say is that "Crap hits the fan" alot in this game.

From my view, the Tier system is there not really to match everyone at the same skill level and same tonnage together. There is really just not enough players (at one time) to do that.

It is there to try to find roughly 24 players in which their scored add up to roughly the same total score in 2 teams and roughly the same tonnage from a small pool of players with hugely different skill levels and mechs into a game in as short a time as possible.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 14 September 2016 - 03:44 AM.

[MrMadguy]

I don't know. Snowball effect is somehow connected with the fact, that more skilled players prefer to use "Rush'n'Smash" tactic instead of positional one - i.e. when you don't care about dmg, you take, cuz your firepower is enough to blow enemies faster, than they deal enough dmg to you. This "Rush'n'Smash" tactic requires some degree of coordination, i.e. several 'Mechs have to attack enemies in organized group. Less skilled players prefer to be more careful, passive and have much less organization, experience and situational awareness. So more skilled players on one team -> more organization -> they use "Rush'n'Smash" tactic, while other team being quite passive and disorganized. But this initial "more skilled players on one team" - is purely MM's fault.

I think, I'm the best example, that all "Snowball effect" theories are wrong. Simply because most of the time my contribution towards victory is close to zero. But all of a sudden my average W/L is very close to 1.

I don't even understand, what happens with this crappy MM. Yeah, I'm very experienced - I know all maps, modes, know, how to build 'Mechs, how to use weapons. But I just don't have enough twitch skills. My aiming is bad. I need time to react. Also I'm bad team player. In most cases I play on my own. Back in time, when I was playing in Open Beta, enemies were fleeing as soon, as they were staring to take damage. Enemies weren't such accurate - they were spreading their shots too, so they couldn't instantly kill you from any distance, as it happens now. That's where I was playing normally. But not now.

So. I'm just BAD PLAYER. What am I doing in teams, where players can instantly two-shot you from 1k meters distance? Why it takes month to drop rating from 90% Tier 3 to 50% only to all of a sudden start winning and having decent matches, only to boost my rating back to 90% within just 2-3 days and to start losing again? Why such swings are happening? Why can't I just constantly play against players with skill level, similar to my own? Why can't we have balanced teams? Why can't we have at least 50/50 good/bad match ratio? Why should we constantly lose for ages? I don't understand. PSR is simply broken and works completely inadequately.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 September 2016 - 04:39 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Ahahahahahahaha. That was epic. Hello from Tier 3, man. Now you see the problem? I was 2nd Assault, who died on my team (Grunker died first, DiePax was badly damaged and was hiding around D3-D4-E3-E4 cross instead of supporting team at center), i.e. it was 0:2 right at the beginning of the match with -2 Assaults on my team. Yet my team carried me.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 September 2016 - 04:59 AM.

[MrMadguy]

PORONOPAPOS, on 14 September 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

great match MrMadguy....my team folded the moment 3 of your team came to flank us....no matter that I stayed close to my teammates this time...

Your team was doing everything right at the beginning - holding C4-D4 line (I was killed at D3, seen 3-4 players there). But looks like half of your team (may be even including you), was cowardly and stayed at B4-C5 line or even fell back to there (you were killed at B4-B5-C4-C5 cross) + there were 1-2 players at C4 (biggest mistake, when playing Skirmish at this map - you're isolated there, unless you have JJs) - and simply allowed my team to get D4 hill and snipe-stomp 2nd half of your team, that was doing everything right. All, that happened next - was just a technical thing. Trying to snipe from B4-C5 line, while leaving your brawlers near D4 hill alone - is most terrible mistake, noobs can make. Trying to attack through C4, unless it's Assault or Domination, where spawns are different - is even bigger mistake.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 September 2016 - 06:10 AM.

[Davegt27]

I can show you how to stay bad if your asking

I am almost always at the front

when I have a red CT I am still fighting

also get a Jager that's a good Mech if you like to die a lot

the Hunchback IIC was another soft Mech

[MrMadguy]

I don't know. How about Occam's Razor? May be explanation is very simple. Population of this game is so low, that matchmaking isn't even possible? I.e. queues are instant, but MM mixes Tier 1, 2 and 3 players in the same match, which means...it doesn't even try to find players with close enough ratings.

[Too Much Love]

"It's all your fault, Poronopapos...." hehe

Do you mainly play in single or group queue ? Or you mix them?

[Novakaine]

It's dem hits man I'm telling ya.

[Tombs Clawtooth]

Mister Blastman, on 12 August 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

That's a pretty bad win/loss ratio on your main account. If you are below 1.0 win/loss then you need to be trying significantly harder to help your team. The way the matchmaker is structured, it aims to put all players at 1/1 win/loss. To go below 1/1 means you're doing things that hurt your team.

I've had a large number of matches in a row where I've scored something of 8+ assists and 1000-1200 damage per match and still wound up in a huge losing streak.

I don't buy for a second that this is any more than luck of the draw, when I end up dead and go to spectate to find that half of my team was sitting back near spawn with only LRMs trying to shoot at targets outside of their maximum range.

Look at your team's damage output, I think that really tells the story on their performance unless they're on voice and actively guiding the team towards objectives and to focus specific targets.

As for trying to guide your team on VOIP, hats off to you guys who manage to do it, for me it feels like trying to corral a pack of deaf cats.

Edited by Tombs Clawtooth, 14 September 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[MrMadguy]

See? We've met again. Also, as I remember, I've seen you many times already. I remember this, cuz your nick...emmm...is a little bit specific. If you understand, what I'm talking about. Last one on Mining was nice. See, what happens, when Tier 1 capable player is being matched with dumb team, but against player, who struggles with dropping back to Tier 4? The fact, that we meet so often, just shows, how tiny MWO's population really is.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 September 2016 - 11:46 AM.

[Revis Volek]

MrMadguy, on 14 September 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

I don't know. Snowball effect is somehow connected with the fact, that more skilled players prefer to use "Rush'n'Smash" tactic instead of positional one - i.e. when you don't care about dmg, you take, cuz your firepower is enough to blow enemies faster, than they deal enough dmg to you. This "Rush'n'Smash" tactic requires some degree of coordination, i.e. several 'Mechs have to attack enemies in organized group. Less skilled players prefer to be more careful, passive and have much less organization, experience and situational awareness. So more skilled players on one team -> more organization -> they use "Rush'n'Smash" tactic, while other team being quite passive and disorganized. But this initial "more skilled players on one team" - is purely MM's fault.

I think, I'm the best example, that all "Snowball effect" theories are wrong. Simply because most of the time my contribution towards victory is close to zero. But all of a sudden my average W/L is very close to 1.

I don't even understand, what happens with this crappy MM. Yeah, I'm very experienced - I know all maps, modes, know, how to build 'Mechs, how to use weapons. But I just don't have enough twitch skills. My aiming is bad. I need time to react. Also I'm bad team player. In most cases I play on my own. Back in time, when I was playing in Open Beta, enemies were fleeing as soon, as they were staring to take damage. Enemies weren't such accurate - they were spreading their shots too, so they couldn't instantly kill you from any distance, as it happens now. That's where I was playing normally. But not now.

So. I'm just BAD PLAYER. What am I doing in teams, where players can instantly two-shot you from 1k meters distance? Why it takes month to drop rating from 90% Tier 3 to 50% only to all of a sudden start winning and having decent matches, only to boost my rating back to 90% within just 2-3 days and to start losing again? Why such swings are happening? Why can't I just constantly play against players with skill level, similar to my own? Why can't we have balanced teams? Why can't we have at least 50/50 good/bad match ratio? Why should we constantly lose for ages? I don't understand. PSR is simply broken and works completely inadequately.

Having less then or equal to a 1:1 W/L ratio equates to being pretty bad at this game unfortunately. Why not shadow some better players do that you can mirror what they do and L2p?


You dont need Twitch skill in this game because it really is not a twitch shooter, not even close. Lacking twitch skills doesnt mean you are bad at this game but lacking a tactical mind and the ability to plan ahead and even foresee outcomes if you ran that way or exposed yourself around this hill.

Having situational awareness and a good tactical plan and executing it is the main points of this game. Hence why more say Teamwork is OP as F*$K because a sound plan usually beats standing around bumping into each other.

Edited by Revis Volek, 14 September 2016 - 03:53 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

My Tier kept on increase rapidly till I started playing Group Play. Now my Tier increase extremely slow.

Thus my solution:
Play Group Play and die like no tomorrow. Group Play not only drops your Tier constantly, it also makes you a better MechWarrior via everyone scolding you till you play better.

Also expecting 1:1 MM in Group Play is way more of a myth then Solo Queue. So you strip yourself of any delusions you might have of proper Matching Making and stuff. And learn the power of a Single Player.

Like, .... MonPax... ... ... Why you no DIE... DIE DIE DIE !!!

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 14 September 2016 - 06:16 PM.

[El Bandito]

PORONOPAPOS, on 14 September 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

I would choose to get to T5 if I could. In fact the reason I opened the alt account to be in my actual lower tier. saddly this didn't work out, I went to T3 after playing 4-5 matches (all with trial mechs) and then I went to T2 in less than a month (half way still playing with trials Cheatah and Battlemaster). Please tell me a way to stay permanently in T4 or T3 T5 and I will do it.

If you are reaching T2 in less than a month with trial Cheetahs and trial Battlemaster, then you deserve to be in T2 in the first place. Don't try to boost your ego/stat by intentionally trying to play with people who are worse than you. T4 and T5 belong to players who can't get out of it--and I know a lot of people who are actually stuck in it, despite their efforts.

[MrMadguy]

El Bandito, on 14 September 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

If you are reaching T2 in less than a month with trial Cheetahs and trial Battlemaster, then you deserve to be in T2 in the first place. Don't try to boost your ego/stat by intentionally trying to play with people who are worse than you. T4 and T5 belong to players who can't get out of it--and I know a lot of people who are actually stuck in it, despite their efforts.

Wrong. I don't belong to Tier 3, but all of a sudden I play there. May be he deson't belong to Tier 4, yeah, but it doesn't mean he belongs to Tier 1, simply cuz same thing happens with him in Tier 1, as happens with me in Tier 3 - constant loses and stomps due to MM, expecting too much from me.

Week ago:




Today:




And his stats are:



See? I have to drop my rating. It's extremely slow and painful process. And biggest question is - how do I manage to constantly rise my rating to such high levels, if I play almost the same 'Mechs - almost stock not mastered Maulers and Battlemasters? It really looks, like PSR rating doesn't even matter anything. There is hidden system, that simply tries to keep my W/L = 1, no matter how high my rating is. So, after having 100500 loses in row this system just have to provide wins to me. But as gaining rating is much easier, than losing it, same amount of wins boosts me higher and higher - were enemies are more and more skilled. I.e. where game is more and more unplayable for me.

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 September 2016 - 01:00 AM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

2109 Gaden Phoenix 89 75 1.19 120 117 1.03 164 255
Show and Tell.

Mr Poronopapas, if you ranked 410 with a KD of 2.45... err how your team losing?

Unless as mentioned, they rank you so high in MM, that you are expected to carry and carry hard. If it is so ... gg... Can you carry me too? I promise I not that bad

Also your win/loss ratio is near 1 what... MM works!!! at making you suffer to ensure the all mighty 1!

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 15 September 2016 - 01:28 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Gaden Phoenix, on 15 September 2016 - 01:27 AM, said:

2109 Gaden Phoenix 89 75 1.19 120 117 1.03 164 255
Show and Tell.

Mr Poronopapas, if you ranked 410 with a KD of 2.45... err how your team losing?

Unless as mentioned, they rank you so high in MM, that you are expected to carry and carry hard. If it is so ... gg... Can you carry me too? I promise I not that bad

Also your win/loss ratio is near 1 what... MM works!!! at making you suffer to ensure the all mighty 1!

#410 doesn't mean anything, simply cuz by default ratings are sorted by number of wins, that is simply proportional to number of matches played. It's better to use other sorting, such as by K/D or average match score.

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 September 2016 - 02:08 AM.