30 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

I try not to go past 3065, that's when you get into Wizkidz territory and "27 meter tall assault mechs carrying hand-held Gatling Guns sporting Modular Armor.

Hand-held, sure. Gatling Guns (rotary cannons), alright. Modular Armor, surprised it wasn't a thing sooner.

27 meters tall, 100 tons and sporting a goddamn brand name Queen-sized fold-out mattress in the torso just under the cockpit with a ******* kitchen!?!?!? In "Dark Ages"?!?!

A ******* kitchen!!!

No! No! NOOOOO!!!!

Or that damn pistol I keep sharing where it has an extended mag in the grip, plus a side mounted magazine injecting in front of the chamber, ejecting shells larger than either magazine can handle and worst off, it is a left hand mag feed being used in a right hand, ejecting shells at the user!!! Wizkidz had about as much "sense" in weapons of war as PGI has in solving time to kill by giving everyone faster firing quirks.

[Spike Brave]

Justing posting an update on -Q SLDF/TH mechs. Found several examples(Longbow, Spartan, Jackrabbit) where the direct fire weapons where replaced by LRMs. Seems to be an indicator of a modification for LRM support.

[Koniving]

Koniving, on 15 August 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

27 meters tall, 100 tons and sporting a goddamn brand name Queen-sized fold-out mattress in the torso just under the cockpit with a ******* kitchen!?!?!? In "Dark Ages"?!?!

A ******* kitchen!!!
.

(Note will edit this shortly). Back! Sorry Android memory issues.
I'd like to explain the absurdity of this for a moment.

First, in Battletech even the Dire Whale is only 12.3 meters tall, the Atlas depending on which author, between high 12s to 15 meters on the most unlikely extreme end. So 27 is insane.

This first one has the following mechs compared:

Blue purple red tan green cyan
Blue = canonical battletech height of a Dire Wolf (12.3 meters)
Purple = my personally accepted height of the Atlas as a good middle range, also the original height of MWO's Hunchback. (13.6 meters)
Red = the most extreme height Battletech ever described an Atlas during FASA (BT's original creators) owning the franchise. (15 meters, exact wording "Towering some 15 meters over me" which leaves room to believe it is an exaggeration or flavoring to enhance the pilot's tale of taking on an Atlas.)
Tan = The height of the Atlas in MWO (17.6 meters)
Red = the most extreme height Battletech ever described an Atlas during FASA (BT's original creators) owning the franchise. (15 meters, exact wording "Towering some 15 meters over me" which leaves room to believe it is an exaggeration or flavoring to enhance the pilot's tale of taking on an Atlas.)
Green = the Executioner 'Mech and its canonical height as the tallest 'mech to exist until 3055/65? (14.4 meters)
Cyan = the height stated for a very specific Dark Ages Atlas with a goddamn kitchen in its chest in place of an srm launcher!! (27 meters).

This thing would be dead in the water, on top of how it magically had no weight increases despite the size? This thing towers over colossal class 'Mechs!

Then there is the kitchen.... in a mech. Why???!!!
Don't get me wrong it is very possible within the rules.



Will edit again so images won't require links later today when I get home. Done.

Edited by Koniving, 16 August 2016 - 11:29 AM.

[jss78]

Koniving, on 16 August 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

(Note will edit this shortly)
I'd like to explain the absurdity of this for a moment.

First, in Battletech even the Dire Whale is only 12.3 meters tall, the Atlas depending on which author, between high 12s to 15 meters on the most unlikely extreme end. So 27 is insane.

Then there is the kitchen.... in a mech. Why???!!!

http://assets-cloud....nal/3741605.jpg

I wonder if the concept is inspired by the specification of the Su-34 strike fighter. While it's only slightly larger than an F-15 Eagle, the Russians decided to include rudimentary galley and toilet facilities, located just behind the side-by-side dual cockpit. There's also just enough space behind the pilot seats for one of the pilots to lie down and rest.

Spoiler

The justification is exactly the same as for the advanced Sparrow 300J life support system on the Shadow Hawk: on longer missions, the more relaxed pilot is the more combat-effective pilot.

I suppose a kitchen and a matress sounds ridiculous for a 15-minute skirmish in MWO, but for a 20-hour recon mission, with a second pilot to take over, it sounds pretty sweet.

[process]

Lots of TIL in there. I feel like I need something like one of those resistor band color tables to keep track of all this stuff!

[Koniving]

jss78, on 16 August 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

I suppose a kitchen and a matress sounds ridiculous for a 15-minute skirmish in MWO, but for a 20-hour recon mission, with a second pilot to take over, it sounds pretty sweet.

Don't get me wrong it is. But there are vehicles designed for this purpose that are much cheaper and don't get shot at. Can you imagine the mess it would have after a 3 minute fight? Or just moving around? These 'Mechs walk like people, they're not as stiff as Mechwarrior games lead us to believe, they do Bob and weave, punch and kick and sometimes they even take cover and kneel. Well okay squatting is more common, but let me leave it at the Tech manual specifically references a Mech being able to do a handstand under "controlled conditions". Now picture a kitchen in an Earthquake and the house is standing on two legs.

Then the sheer size of this -- and I kid you not it is a goddamn Lyran Atlas taking the Steiner (Lyran) "more money than brains" stereotype to the extreme -- is absolutely insane. At 27 meters it is almost twice as tall as Battletech's tallest mech and yet still 100 tons? I read that and I just tossed the book and said "I'm done.". There is only so much suspension of disbelief that can be had, this thing is infeasible, impractical and to use it for combat makes about as much sense as ....there just isn't a comparison.
(Note: The Dark Age Atlas from that poorly written book is the Cyan or greenish blue one on the right. Tan is MWO's Atlas, blue (far left) is the established canonical height of the Dire Wolf. And yet this giant is still "100 tons"?)


Do remember that of the 80,000 known planets in the IS, there is less than 250,000 'Mechs, so that is barely more than 3 mechs per planet if every single planet had a mech (3025). The waste it would be, on top of the size making it a truly unique mech rather than just the refit it claims to be (so the size is a fluke of the author not doing research on scale). (Note that is the "end" of the estimate for total planets in the IS, not populated planets.)

Edited by Koniving, 16 August 2016 - 11:32 AM.

[Gibson Ibanez]

I put a little beer fridge next to the chair in my Atlas.

[Koniving]

jss78, on 16 August 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

I wonder if the concept is inspired by the specification of the Su-34 strike fighter. While it's only slightly larger than an F-15 Eagle, the Russians decided to include rudimentary galley and toilet facilities, located just behind the side-by-side dual cockpit. There's also just enough space behind the pilot seats for one of the pilots to lie down and rest.

Spoiler

The justification is exactly the same as for the advanced Sparrow 300J life support system on the Shadow Hawk: on longer missions, the more relaxed pilot is the more combat-effective pilot.

Side note: supposedly most if not all Inner Sphere mechs offer a toilet and a cot of some sort to sleep in, and a food station that contains M.R.E. style food packs that can be heated by adding water or by firing some lasers and letting things "toast" for a moment on a non-insulated surface. These are given.

The size plus a kitchen that according to the rules adds 3 crew just to staff it, at 3 tons for the space, appliances, equipment and supplies to keep it stocked... that is the lunacy I'm referring to in case if anyone is confused.

(Even if we assume the "27 meter" height is a typo that made it to official print and it was meant to be, say, "17 meters"... far more acceptable... then the field kitchen is that much harder to believe. Even in removing the SRM rack for this kitchen, we still have another issue.)

Quote

The Atlas is armed with a multitude of weapons for both long and short range combat, all designed specifically to be as visible as possible so as to strike fear in the hearts of its enemies. For long ranges, the 'Mech carries a FarFire Maxi-Rack LRM-20 in the left torso that allows it to both fire directly at an enemy target at long range, and to give indirect fire support when needed. Unable to fit a full twenty-tube system on the 'Mech, the FarFire instead launches the missiles in waves of five over the course of ten seconds and carries two tons of reloads for twelve such salvos. For close range combat the 'Mech is armed with a Defiance 'Mech Hunter Autocannon/20 in the right torso with two tons of ammo. Although lacking a cooling jacket and liable to overheat, the massive autocannon gives the Atlas the firepower to take on an entire 'Mech company.^[7][8]

In other words: The Atlas has the issue of NOT being big and having really limited internal space (not in tabletop rules but in 'fluff'), and as such its LRM-20 is limited to a hip-mounted 5 pack (except on the Atlases K and C where the SRM launchers removed in order to put a proper LRM-20 rack in the LT, or if you go by the art what they really did was put it the launchers in the front CT [the CT lasers are rear facing] and the loading mechanisms/guts are in the LT.)

Edited by Koniving, 16 August 2016 - 11:44 AM.

[jss78]

Koniving, on 16 August 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

Side note: supposedly most if not all Inner Sphere mechs offer a toilet and a cot of some sort to sleep in, and a food station that contains M.R.E. style food packs that can be heated by adding water or by firing some lasers and letting things "toast" for a moment on a non-insulated surface. These are given. The size plus a kitchen that according to the rules adds 3 crew just to staff it, at 3 tons for the space, appliances, equipment and supplies to keep it stocked... that is the lunacy I'm referring to.

OK, I see the difference there Maybe the mechwarriors can use this full-size KitchenMech to sell hot dogs between combat missions. It does sound weird.

[Metus regem]

jss78, on 16 August 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

OK, I see the difference there Maybe the mechwarriors can use this full-size KitchenMech to sell hot dogs between combat missions. It does sound weird.

I'm sure they could sell Pizza... they could likely cook it in 3 to 4 seconds, just by putting it on the housing of small laser...

[Gibson Ibanez]

Well put together information Koniving. Thanks. Sometime people (writers) should have thier creative license revoked.

You are definitely putting that app to great use. Nice.

Edited by Jack McKnight, 16 August 2016 - 03:05 PM.