58 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Indeed they could have been, but why rush to finish something that will water down the 'buckets' even further, and cause even more game play imbalance.

[Gas Guzzler]

Cathy, on 16 August 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

Indeed they could have been, but why rush to finish something that will water down the 'buckets' even further, and cause even more game play imbalance.

Not sure about the imbalance part but yeah the buckets are an issue. Maybe Faction Play improvements would be better than either.

[operatorZ]

Solaris would be cool, if done correctly. Which could mean whatever combination of 1v1 to 12v12 or All vs. All, as long as weight classes faced the same weight class. Anything other then that would not only be unfair to lighter classes but it would be basically QP, which we already have.

Yes, I am saying that a 1v1 match of a 30 ton mech vs. 75 ton mech would, on average, be unfair to the 30 ton mech, that's reality.

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 August 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

They could have been working on Solaris for the past several months but instead spent it working on Energy Draw.

To be fair, I believe our balance overlord is tasked with Energy Draw.

Then again, he was tasked with FW after being banished from balance.

So, I'm not sure if giving him the task of Solaris would be an improvement.

[Dread Render]

if they were working on Solaris at all wouldn't we have heard something?

[Deathlike]

Dread Render, on 16 August 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

if they were working on Solaris at all wouldn't we have heard something?

I get the feeling that would be the "reveal" @ Mechcon.

[TKSax]

Dread Render, on 16 August 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

if they were working on Solaris at all wouldn't we have heard something?

Deathlike, on 16 August 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

I get the feeling that would be the "reveal" @ Mechcon.

They are not, Russ said in town hall that Solaris will not happen until after the Game Engine is upgraded or Changed.

Edited by TKSax, 16 August 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[Dread Render]

Deathlike, on 16 August 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

I get the feeling that would be the "reveal" @ Mechcon.

arrg...that's not till what, December is it?
That's a long wait for a "reveal"

[Tordin]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 August 2016 - 09:06 PM, said:

Isnt what we already HAVE solaris? I mean the quick queue. They could just rename it lol

damn I shouldnt give them ideas

No, no, no, NO!

Pug matches are at best team solaris.... bleh, what so grand about that? Not even spectator mode for some 25th, 26th players, no grand prizes for the 3 best and no betting. Not good enough, mediocre!

Solaris are at least from my perspective FREE FOR ALL! survival of the fittest kinda battle. Also pure killing, no objective hunting. Like in MW 4 mercs you would occasionaly get somone wilingly contacting you on the com to team up.
Survive together to the end and duel it out ( clanner will be pleased!).
Could be transferred to MWO kind of Solaris as well. Lets say for MWO. In the in-game team menu, you could send MAX one invite to another player for that kind of teamwork. The only teamwork there should be, thank you very much.

I imagine *grand arena, folks cheering, 24 pilots in the mixed class arena match ready for metal wrecking action!* Im in a raven. put against Atlases, Timber Wolves, Shadow hawks and you name it. Will you prevail? Do YOU have the right piloting skill for that certain mech class and mech variant of your choosing? Do you have what it takes to go asswhooping on 23 other pilots metal giants?

Now there should be a limit of certain mech classes in said mixed class arena matches though (6 of each). Also there should be separate class matches (lights, mediums) for some pure weight class action.

Edited by Tordin, 16 August 2016 - 12:55 PM.

[Kael Posavatz]

Aresye, on 15 August 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Sorry to **** on those who hope Solaris will be an immersive, lore-based experience, but let's be honest here. FW is what was supposed to be the immersive, RP mode.

It was?

Turns off irony.

Issues, of course. Moving people from that 'group queue' bucket to the 'Solaris' bucket, and all those RP'ers who should be in the FW bucket are swimming with the piranhas in the Solaris bucket. (Unless you can do some non-meching things in Solaris? There might be a few Diamond Sharks willing to run a concession stand, the Yakuza can manage the betting, and the Jade Falcons might be willing to offer loans to those who lose their mechs at the wagering tables although the rates are likely to be killer).

On the other hand a lot of people want Solaris and it may be a way to attract/keep more players which will be a thing when PGI starts looking to renew its license in summer '18.

Deathlike, on 16 August 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

I get the feeling that would be the "reveal" @ Mechcon.

Hate to disappoint, but the 'reveal' at MechCon will be the revamped skill trees.

BUT, PGI has tended to throw a big patch in December. 2015 it was Rebalance (lackluster following collapse of InfoWar), and Steam going live. In 2014 it was CW. Usually there is a party around the same time (Steam Launch, MechCon) and 'sneak peek' at what is coming in May/June (oh, and announcement of a Mech Pack, can't forget one of those, I'm going to go on a limb and say that it will be a Clan Mech this year). At the Steam Party the reveal was FW Phase III (it looked like a good idea at the time), and...the Archer I think? One of the Alpha-Lance-series of mechs anyway.

There hasn't been much chatter about a December patch. I suppose we could be looking at Energy Draw and some other ancillary things they're working on, but December seems a little late for what they've said about getting it out. Another possibility is a return of InfoWarfare, or some real heavy work on FW. I suppose Solaris has to be on the list, but it's probably a lot lower than some of the others. And, as I said, very little out of PGI staff about December patch in comparison to years past.

Now, long-range predictions are hard, but one thing to keep in mind is that none of us know how extensive of a skill revamp they are taking. It doesn't need to be overly complex, and there could be a lot of carry-over. For that matter, variants of the same mech should be identical unless it was something very different (K2, Jester compared to the rest of the catapults) and, well, missile-mechs should have missile skills, etc. (The Omnis might be a bit more of a challenge). If they can economize, then they might find themselves with time on their hands in prep for that May/June patch so...

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 16 August 2016 - 01:44 PM.

[Deathlike]

TKSax, on 16 August 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

They are not, Russ said in town hall that Solaris will not happen until after the Game Engine is upgraded or Changed.

Exactly why is that required?

There's no fundamental reason (that I would even excuse PGI with) why that is necessary.

[Mystere]

FrontGuard, on 15 August 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yes, I see your point totally... and for you guys who are fast thinkers and can make or break an alliance that quickly you deserve credit. unfortunately I have no such advanced social skill and I would be the dude you gang up on and make quick work of. just have to be honest. One thing I can say for sure is I would totally enjoy 1v1 tournaments. To me nothing is more exciting than a duel.

Hmm. I never really thought of guile and deceit as being "advanced" social skills.

[Spleenslitta]

Aresye, on 16 August 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

The problem with anything below 5v5 is there's very little depth, which makes for a very poor viewing experience, and would get very stale for the players involved (ex: do you feel scouting mode in FW offers exciting gameplay?) The problem with anything above 6v6 is there's too much depth, to the point you really have to practice in-depth strategies with the same players, making it less accessible for those who wish to drop solo.

Little depth? Poor viewing experience? Stale for players involved?

Depth. Making instant alliances with someone who will betray you at the flick of a coin sounds a lot more interresting than a team gamemode.
Anything can happen.

Poor viewing experience. This game is not meant to be most entertaining when viewed...it's most entertained when you play it.

Stale for players involved. How can it be stale when combat becomes more frantic?
In a team gamemode there is a relativly safe haven amongst your teammates.
With a 12 or 24 player free for all match where you not safe anywhere and enemies are all over the place.

Free for all means no one to blame but yourself when you lose. It also means you can play the way you want and use whatever build you want without a teammate throwing abusive curses your way because of your playstyle.

Oh yeah...FW scouting or ordinary FW....both suck. I have played maybe 10 FW matches since it was introduced to MWO.
Boring bottleneck maps.

[TheArisen]

Spleenslitta, on 16 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Little depth? Poor viewing experience? Stale for players involved?

Depth. Making instant alliances with someone who will betray you at the flick of a coin sounds a lot more interresting than a team gamemode.
Anything can happen.

Poor viewing experience. This game is not meant to be most entertaining when viewed...it's most entertained when you play it.

Stale for players involved. How can it be stale when combat becomes more frantic?
In a team gamemode there is a relativly safe haven amongst your teammates.
With a 12 or 24 player free for all match where you not safe anywhere and enemies are all over the place.

Free for all means no one to blame but yourself when you lose. It also means you can play the way you want and use whatever build you want without a teammate throwing abusive curses your way because of your playstyle.

Oh yeah...FW scouting or ordinary FW....both suck. I have played maybe 10 FW matches since it was introduced to MWO.
Boring bottleneck maps.

FW invasion & scouting can be a lot of fun but it'd be a great addition to the game to have a free for all, 1v1, 2v2v2v2 and so on.

The thing about free for all is it'd require a bit of luck & tons of situational awareness because you could be fighting someone & then get engaged by a 2nd or more players. I'd bet the required situational awareness would carry over & possibly improve gameplay in general, if we're being hopeful anyway.

[Aresye]

Spleenslitta, on 16 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Depth. Making instant alliances with someone who will betray you at the flick of a coin sounds a lot more interresting than a team gamemode.
Anything can happen.

That isn't depth. That's chaos.

I don't know what fantasy world of online gaming you live in, but generally most players don't enjoy being forced to participate in what is essentially, "legal griefing." This, "glorious, massive free for all," you're imagining is forgetting one thing: Most players are {Richard Cameron}.

Spleenslitta, on 16 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Poor viewing experience. This game is not meant to be most entertaining when viewed...it's most entertained when you play it.

That's your opinion, however that doesn't change the fact that PGI wants this game to go into esports, and in order to get into esports, it has to be made enjoyable to watch.

Spleenslitta, on 16 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Stale for players involved. How can it be stale when combat becomes more frantic?
In a team gamemode there is a relativly safe haven amongst your teammates.
With a 12 or 24 player free for all match where you not safe anywhere and enemies are all over the place.

With the lack of immersion and very lackluster weapons/mechanics in the game, the staleness comes from those who are looking at more than just shooting mechs, which has been one of the main issues this game has suffered from ever since closed beta. It's all shooting mechs, and nothing more. No end game. No incentive for teamwork. No incentive for objectives. You really think another version of what we already have is going to fix that?

Spleenslitta, on 16 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Free for all means no one to blame but yourself when you lose. It also means you can play the way you want and use whatever build you want without a teammate throwing abusive curses your way because of your playstyle.

IMO, they should really make solo queue the main FFA arena for casual players who just want to shoot up mechs, because let's face it, it's not like there's any in-depth tactical team play taking place there, with most players doing whatever they want.

Those that want to drop solo but still play with a team can drop in competitive (Solaris) or (if it's fixed) FW.

There's one type of player that gets screwed out of this whole deal, and that's the casual solo player who essentially wants to do whatever they want yet still have a team that can carry them to victory.

[Kael Posavatz]

TKSax, on 16 August 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

They are not, Russ said in town hall that Solaris will not happen until after the Game Engine is upgraded or Changed.

Deathlike, on 16 August 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Exactly why is that required?

There's no fundamental reason (that I would even excuse PGI with) why that is necessary.

Answer: PGI wants to get into e-sports. E-sports means they need people who want to watch others play the game rather than play it themselves. To make that happen they need to upgrade all sorts of spectator tools. In particular, one that Russ has mentioned on multiple occasions, is rewind/slow-motion which is currently beyond the capabilities of the engine they are using as is.

Thus, they need to upgrade/replace the engine in order to get desired spectator tools to make MWO watchable to the e-sports-watching-crowd.

Aresye, on 16 August 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

This, "glorious, massive free for all," you're imagining is forgetting one thing: Most players are {Richard Cameron}.

You are either being very unfair to Richard Cameron, very unfair to "most players", or quite possibly both. Of course, that does not make it unfunny or untrue.

Aresye, on 16 August 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

It's all shooting mechs, and nothing more. No end game. No incentive for teamwork. No incentive for objectives. You really think another version of what we already have is going to fix that?

And sadly enough PGI started to actually address this, sort of. Last September they were running 24-hour objectives for specific factions in FW at a rate of 2 factions/day. It wasn't a great start, but it was a start, and then they abruptly stopped. I'm not sure if it was because it got too complex for them (have a hard time imagining this but I suppose someone had to spend a half-hour a day thinking things up and implementing them and typing up flavor text), or if too many, um, "Richard Camerons" were upset that the event wasn't for their faction.

[TheArisen]

Aresye, on 16 August 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

That isn't depth. That's chaos.

I don't know what fantasy world of online gaming you live in, but generally most players don't enjoy being forced to participate in what is essentially, "legal griefing." This, "glorious, massive free for all," you're imagining is forgetting one thing: Most players are {Richard Cameron}.


That's your opinion, however that doesn't change the fact that PGI wants this game to go into esports, and in order to get into esports, it has to be made enjoyable to watch.


With the lack of immersion and very lackluster weapons/mechanics in the game, the staleness comes from those who are looking at more than just shooting mechs, which has been one of the main issues this game has suffered from ever since closed beta. It's all shooting mechs, and nothing more. No end game. No incentive for teamwork. No incentive for objectives. You really think another version of what we already have is going to fix that?


IMO, they should really make solo queue the main FFA arena for casual players who just want to shoot up mechs, because let's face it, it's not like there's any in-depth tactical team play taking place there, with most players doing whatever they want.

Those that want to drop solo but still play with a team can drop in competitive (Solaris) or (if it's fixed) FW.

There's one type of player that gets screwed out of this whole deal, and that's the casual solo player who essentially wants to do whatever they want yet still have a team that can carry them to victory.

I don't think anyone is pretending this would be the end all, be all mode but it'd be an enjoyable mode for a sizable portion of the population as well as a potential draw for new/former players.

[Deathlike]

Kael Posavatz, on 16 August 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

Answer: PGI wants to get into e-sports. E-sports means they need people who want to watch others play the game rather than play it themselves. To make that happen they need to upgrade all sorts of spectator tools. In particular, one that Russ has mentioned on multiple occasions, is rewind/slow-motion which is currently beyond the capabilities of the engine they are using as is.

Thus, they need to upgrade/replace the engine in order to get desired spectator tools to make MWO watchable to the e-sports-watching-crowd.

The spectator tools are there. It's the infrastructure that PGI isn't willing the invest the programming time into.

What PGI is essentially is a mod company... and if it's "too hard" to add stuff to the game, it doesn't happen. Rewriting the netcode (let alone the UI) to "handle" a multitude of people viewing matches would be intensive work.

Rewind and slow motion isn't entirely trivial, but then again, a competent group would be capable of doing it. Since spending on actual developers to properly add this is "not doable" for whatever reason, it's "easier" to use other engines... but that in itself requires significant time to move assets and redevelop the interface for it.

You might as well just suggest "it won't happen", because PGI.