17 replies to this topic

[Boot Hill]

Hello folks I was wondering if anyone with a bit more experience could give me their thoughts on these two mechs? I see a lot of people like the Warhammer and it seems to be a solid mech, what about the Black Knight? Thank you any information!

Edited by Boot Hill, 16 August 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[Mole]

Well, I don't have any personal experience with the Black Knight, since I don't own one and never have. There was a time when the Black Knight was one of the king competetive Inner Sphere 'mechs but I've seen a lot less of them since the quirk pass and rescale happened. I'm guessing they're not as good as they used to be. Still seeing plenty of Warhammers though. I speak from personal experience on the Warhammer that is is a very solid chassis. I'll show you the build that I run on mine that I find wrecks a lot of face.

Here it is: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...49f6e12a455caaa

You might have a hard time though if you're one of those lore sticklers that insists a Warhammer is not a Warhammer without the PPCs in the arms and won't run it without PPCs. I've heard a lot of those people saying that their Warhammer is a very difficult machine to pilot. Anyway, I can definitely vouch for the Warhammer being a good, solid heavy 'mech when in my hands at least.

[Metus regem]

The Black Knight is a solid (if average) mech, very much build around the idea of lasers. It can be extreamly tanky, thanks to decent hit boxes and a large engine, how ever it does have a bad habbit of running a bit hot.

This is an example of a Black Knight I run:

BL-6-KNT

The idea behind this unit is to close, while using my RA to sheild as much damage as it can, before I can get in to unleash that burst of laser fire.


As for the Warhammer, I'm one of those pilots that Mole has referenced, I enjoy using my WHM-6R, to murder other heavies and assault mechs to great effect. The idea behind her, is to use PPC's till you are around 100m from your victim, then switch to the C.I.W.S. of the ASRM4/MG/SPL and watch as their ST/CT melt in short order.


Long story short, both are good mechs, but the Warhammer really responds well to a pilot that has gotten down the skills of Gunnery, map knowledge and torso twisting. That being said, not everyone will mesh well with every mech in the game, I personally am next to useless in a Storm Crow, but I am an unholy terror in a Dragon.

[Spheroid]

The Black Knight is a good chassis. I prefer it to the Warhammer-6D for energy vomit. Obviously the Warhammer has more build options though.

[Gas Guzzler]

They are both solid, but if you are new you are better off with the Warhammer as there is much more variety and the 6D pretty much does what the Black Knight does best. There is also that PGI is looking to bury energy boats with the new "Energy Draw" mechanic they are working, and the Warhammer is sure to walk away from that better than the Black Knight due to its diverse variants. I would definitely go with the Warhammer. The Black Widow hero mech is great as well.

[Tamagoci]

Warhammer any day.

[Rogue Jedi]

I have played both, while I did not dislike the Black Knight I realy like the Warhammer, it feels a lot more durable and is generaly more fun in my opinion, however my best ever game (1114 damage, 5 kills and no-one on ether team with half my match score or damage) was in a Black Knight

[Koniving]

It is strange and rare that I can say I haven't played as either in MWO (considering my stable just hit above the 200 'Mech mark). The reason is pretty simple, Warhammer is new and the Black Knight is a bit farther down on my list of things to get, and with both being on the higher end of Heavies, they are not easy to get.

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Here's what I can offer based on 4 years of game knowledge:

The Warhammer is more versatile in terms of what weapons it can use due to ballistic, energy and missile Hardpoint. Unless I am mistaken I believe the Black Knight is exclusively energy-based, which keeps stuff light for heatsinks and big engines, but leaves your options somewhat limited to a third of what the game can give you in terms of weapons.

I can go a step further in saying that a Black Knight, if given a standard engine will be able to take nearly twice the beating that the Warhammer can through some experience with similar hitboxes designs. Just watch out for LRMs, while the Black Knight's hitboxes are great against direct fire due to the V shape, the head and collar bone region is pure center torso and so LRMs will do the most effective damage against the CT.

(Note the reason it could take more abuse is the hitboxes and the fluke of "destroyed side torsos". If left torso is destroyed, it still appears to be there. Since CT is so skinny the shot may hit left or right torso. Damage is then cut by 60%. That AC/20 shot? Only 8 damage now when it transfers to the CT. And if it hits near the shoulder area? Double 60% cut so 20-60%=8-60%= 3.2 damage. If you ever wonder how enemies tank insane amounts of damage, this is how.




Also: Welcome to MWO.

Edited by Koniving, 16 August 2016 - 01:55 PM.

[Hans Brackhaus]

I own both and I like both.

Owning 3 Black Knights will give you 3 very similar mechs because they're all energy-based. That might be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you view it. But it plays well and is enjoyable. With the Warhammer you get more build variety: the 6D is all energy like the Black Knight, the 6R is a good platform if you like PPCs and can handle ballistics pretty well, and the 7S mixes in several missile hardpoints to play with. On top of that you have the Black Widow hero for even more ballistics if that's your thing.

If I'm recommending one it would be the Warhammer for the build variety.

[The Basilisk]

Warhammer all the way Black Knight has gotten so big and cubbersome its pretty much worthless.

[process]

Warhammer, easily, and it comes down to variety. My Warhammers have:

AC20 + 6 medium lasers
3 ASRM 6 + 6 medium lasers
4 AC5

There are plenty of other things to do, and I haven't even attempted energy boating.

[Hunka Junk]

The Black Knight is good for face-to-face brawling. The variants basically move around a couple of hardpoints. Black knights CANNOT use ANYTHING but lasers. Your lasers fire no higher than your belly button except for the dinky one in your head that cannot hold anything larger than an MPL.

As long as I'm at it, the only mech in the resistance pack that can have anything but lasers is the Mauler...

The Warhammer features all three weapon varieties with generally sensible hardpoint placement. And, the Black Widow is one of the most popular hero mechs on offer.

[TheFourthAlly]

That Warhammer Hero looks pretty good too, nice to hear it's a decent chassis. Considering the last few months, it seems to me a good idea to wait and see if there will be a Heavy sale coming up? I'm currently having good fun with my newly acquired cheetahs, but I do enjoy trying out a variety of builds on a solid heavy, currently the Timberwolfs.

[justcallme A S H]

Koniving, on 16 August 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

I can go a step further in saying that a Black Knight, if given a standard engine will be able to take nearly twice the beating that the Warhammer can through some experience with similar hitboxes designs. Just watch out for LRMs, while the Black Knight's hitboxes are great against direct fire due to the V shape, the head and collar bone region is pure center torso and so LRMs will do the most effective damage against the CT.

Since the rescale, sadly, the Black Knight is was less tankier than a Warhammer. CT gets opened up much more easily now. A Black Knight is taller than an Atlas/Kodiak - I look straight over them haha.

Still a great mech but just not as good as they were.

Metus regem, on 16 August 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

This is an example of a Black Knight I run:

BL-6-KNT

The idea behind this unit is to close, while using my RA to sheild as much damage as it can, before I can get in to unleash that burst of laser fire.

Dude... 30 point alpha?

This is a Black Knight - Take off one Med Laser and add a heatsink for more heat efficiency if you're getting too hot. You can alpha 3 times before needing to cool off on every map except Terra/Caustic.


73km/h is plenty for a heavy with a STD engine.

Or XL it and do THIS in a 7 (same again, take off a Med Laser/Add H/S for more efficiency)


But yeah, Black Knights are simply not as tanky as they were, I'd take the Warhammer if it was me.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 17 August 2016 - 05:32 AM.

[Husker Dude]

Hunka Junk, on 16 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

Black knights CANNOT use ANYTHING but lasers. Your lasers fire no higher than your belly button except for the dinky one in your head that cannot hold anything larger than an MPL.

Honestly, I think this is a pretty big reason why I prefer the Warhammer, low mounts like on the Black Knight so frequently get blocked by terrain, especially when you want to take high ground and shoot down on your enemy.

[Exard3k]

Tamagoci, on 16 August 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Warhammer any day.

this

[ImperialKnight]

For variety, Warhammer. For all out Laser Vomit, Grasshopper. The GHP can do any build the BLK KNT can, AND it can jump

[Digital_Angel]

I own the Warhammers and have looked heavily at the Black Knights, but don't own them yet.

The Warhammers are much more versatile, also the hard points are not as low. How you get around the low hard points on the Black Knight is to peak around the side of things instead of over the top. All of the Knights have a majority of their hard points on the right side. This makes them good at peaking around the right side of an obstacle to trade, but lousy at "hill humping" because all the points are relatively low on the mech. The Warhammers do not have the highest mounts either (with the exception of the missile points on the 7S, those are nice and high).

My personal builds on the Warhammers:
Widow: 4xAC5 + 2 lasers as backup weapons in the torso slots. Very close to the meta build for it. You have to run an XL with that build, but at distance Warhammers are pretty XL friendly.

6R: 2xAC5 + 2xERPPC in the arms. I used to run this build on the Widow, but the 6R was quirked better for that build so that is where it resides now. I run 2.5-3 tons of ammo for the AC5s.

7S: bunch of ML/MPL and SRMs. I fill every single hard point on the thing and then squeeze as muchengine and heat sinks as I can in afterwards. Size of SRM launchers and ratio of ML to MPL depends on what engine size works best for you. Either way you will be fighting crit slots for more heat sinks for take a cool shot or two. Unlike my other builds that are meant for medium to long range striker roles, this is an in your face brawler. You want a STD engine in it or you will die fast.