18 replies to this topic

[l33tworks]

Going from 1.2 to 1.5 Should be hugely noticable right?

I can seem to fire the same amount of weapons before overheating since I could last patch.

Am I missing something? Maybe I need to reinstall.

[Widowmaker1981]

Not really.

Think about the actual numbers.. lets say you have 25 DHS.

heat cap = base 30 heat cap +20% for double heat containment skill + engine heatsink cap + external heatsink cap
previous heat cap = (30x1.2) + (10x2.0) + (15x1.1) = 72.5
new heat cap = (30x1.2) + (10x2.0) + (15x1.5) = 78.5

That 6 increase on an existing 72.5 is not going to be very noticable, at all, and the fewer heatsinks you have, the less the effect will be. on a 14 DHS Shadow Cat for exammple it will gain a whopping 1.6 heat cap.

Dont bother re-installing for this kind of thing regardless, since all that stuff is calculated server side.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

It's actually 1.1 to 1.5.
Also only for mounted DHS since engine DHS still have 2.0.
Basically, even for a DHS boat warhawk with 28-30 DHS it's "only" a 6 to 6.8 increase of the heatcap. That's basically a c-er-medium laser.
At the rear end, like a 6x c-spl Cheetah, he will only get a 0.4 to 0.8 increase, that's obviously not enough to fire even one of his c-spl.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 15 December 2016 - 02:15 AM.

[l33tworks]

Thanks for the info guys. It Is a lot less than I expected, I guess thats why I didn't notice it.

That said I REALLY noticed when they reduced the capacity for clan mechs a few months ago.

[Widowmaker1981]

l33tworks, on 15 December 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

Thanks for the info guys. It Is a lot less than I expected, I guess thats why I didn't notice it.

That said I REALLY noticed when they reduced the capacity for clan mechs a few months ago.

It was the exact same effect that time, in reverse. Probably just a bit of confirmation bias that time - its easier to notice when you overheat and shut down, and then blame it on the change.

[Blue Boutique]

I felt it when I dusted off my grasshopper with two erppc and kept laying down fire at a distance without overheating like I usually do.

[Lily from animove]

l33tworks, on 15 December 2016 - 01:57 AM, said:

Going from 1.2 to 1.5 Should be hugely noticable right?

I can seem to fire the same amount of weapons before overheating since I could last patch.

Am I missing something? Maybe I need to reinstall.

how is it noticeable?

how many heatsinks do you have? on 20 heatsinks thats just 8 heat difference. many light mechs and lower meds don't even run much past 14. and many big mechs utilising Ballistcis won't matter much. and on high energy boats it's not going to add more to the volley as most are limited by the ghostheat. so if you have a full DHS's WHK thats around 26DHS thats like 10.4 heat.
The IS dissipation changes are much more significant for the energy builds because they gain some true dps from this. Especially for the light mechs that nevr had their true dubs to to engine externals and weight restrictions that is a significant buff.

Widowmaker1981, on 15 December 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

Not really.

Think about the actual numbers.. lets say you have 25 DHS.

heat cap = base 30 heat cap +20% for double heat containment skill + engine heatsink cap + external heatsink cap
previous heat cap = (30x1.2) + (10x2.0) + (15x1.1) = 72.5
new heat cap = (30x1.2) + (10x2.0) + (15x1.5) = 78.5

That 6 increase on an existing 72.5 is not going to be very noticable, at all, and the fewer heatsinks you have, the less the effect will be. on a 14 DHS Shadow Cat for exammple it will gain a whopping 1.6 heat cap.

Dont bother re-installing for this kind of thing regardless, since all that stuff is calculated server side.

well, the dissipation is the more important thing for the IS.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 December 2016 - 03:27 AM.

[El Bandito]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2016 - 03:25 AM, said:

The IS dissipation changes are much more significant for the energy builds because they gain some true dps from this. Especially for the light mechs that nevr had their true dubs to to engine externals and weight restrictions that is a significant buff.

What? +0.01 per external DHS is nothing. Even if you got +10 external DHS, (which requires 20+ slots) that's total of +0.1 heat dissipation. Such laugh!

If I meet an enemy as a laser vomit mech, I'd rather have +4 heat capacity bonus than +0.1 heat dissipation bonus. Cause it will take 40 seconds of engagement for the heat dissipation bonus to catch up to the heat capacity bonus. And no face to face fight lasts more than 40 seconds.

Bottom line is: Clans got the better deal in the DHS normalization, as small as the buff is.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 December 2016 - 03:43 AM.

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 15 December 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

What? +0.01 per external DHS is nothing. Even if you got +10 external DHS, (which requires 20+ slots) that's total of +0.1 heat dissipation. Such laugh!

If I meet an enemy as a laser vomit mech, I'd rather have +4 heat capacity bonus than +0.1 heat dissipation bonus. Cause it will take 40 seconds of engagement for the heat dissipation bonus to catch up to the heat capacity bonus. And no face to face fight lasts more than 40 seconds.

Bottom line is: Clans got the better deal in the DHS normalization, as small as the buff is.

? its 0.1 not 0.01. and given that it is a raise form 1.4 to 1.5 that means 6.66%. are you saying 6.66% heat dissipation is nothing, of so, pleas ecna I ahve nothing? it is a lot. And it it not about facetime, it is in effect at any time "above" 0 heat. which means.

with 4 DHS external this means, you will dissipate 5 heat extra in 20 seconds. that is not nothing that is quite a lot.

the clans surely did not got the better deal. unless you are a warrior that dies within 30 seconds fo encounter.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 December 2016 - 03:58 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

It's a minor increase in heat capacity. Before the patch, firing all weapons on my 2xLPL+3ERML Hellbringer in Tourmaline would bring me up from 4% heat (idle) to 52%, which equals 48% heat per alpha. Now it brings me from 4% to 48%, which equals 44% heat per alpha. Not a big deal, although certainly welcome

[El Bandito]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

? its 0.1 not 0.01. and given that it is a raise form 1.4 to 1.5 that means 6.66%. are you saying 6.66% heat dissipation is nothing, of so, pleas ecna I ahve nothing? it is a lot. And it it not about facetime, it is in effect at any time "above" 0 heat. which means.

with 4 DHS external this means, you will dissipate 5 heat extra in 20 seconds. that is not nothing that is quite a lot.

the clans surely did not got the better deal. unless you are a warrior that dies within 30 seconds fo encounter.

Right, it is 0.1 Still, when two sides clash at the gate or base in FW it takes less than 30 seconds to have several mechs dead.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 December 2016 - 05:03 AM.

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 15 December 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

When 2 sides clash at the gate or base in FW it takes less than 30 seconds to have several mechs dead.

but not many, and if people undertsand the way hwo to make injured mechs fallback to not get destroyed instant then this is now how they die so fast. But of cours ewhen boze run in stupid guns blazing, a FEW die, but still enough are left to profit form it and not all encounters are pure head on head rushes where half the people die within 30 seconds.


you always start to create scenarios favouring your opinion, but you never stay on the objective and reality side of what happens in MWO. And thats bad analytical skills.

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

? its 0.1 not 0.01. and given that it is a raise form 1.4 to 1.5 that means 6.66%. are you saying 6.66% heat dissipation is nothing, of so, pleas ecna I ahve nothing? it is a lot. And it it not about facetime, it is in effect at any time "above" 0 heat. which means.

with 4 DHS external this means, you will dissipate 5 heat extra in 20 seconds. that is not nothing that is quite a lot.

the clans surely did not got the better deal. unless you are a warrior that dies within 30 seconds fo encounter.

4 DHS external is almost the maximum you will find on most IS Mechs. Reason is the need for ES and the size of those sinks.
the change don't turn a Mech that overheat before into a wonder of sustained fire.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 15 December 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

4 DHS external is almost the maximum you will find on most IS Mechs. Reason is the need for ES and the size of those sinks.
the change don't turn a Mech that overheat before into a wonder of sustained fire.

no it does not make it a wonder, but it surely is a better buff than the cap increase and it does have a effect over their overall performance. its a 6,6% buff to the externals, and I wouldn't call that small, as it is basically a buff for ALL wepaons. Just imagine it would be a quirk for all the is chassis.

[Karl Streiger]

6.6% of nothing is still nothing.
A 6.6% heat reduction for all weapons would have some effect.

And BTW your 6.6% are not correct. You need to see the bigger picture,

First you have your internals (dissipation of 2?)
Then you add the externals (dissipation 1.4 to 1.5)

So when you have 14 DHS.
Its a change from 2,56 to 2.6 - a change of 0.04 HPS a change of 1.5%
Granted when you have a TDR with 20 DHS you have a whooping change of 0.1 HPS
So it moves from 3.4 to 3.5 ~3%

El Bandito, on 15 December 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

Right, it is 0.1 Still, when two sides clash at the gate or base in FW it takes less than 30 seconds to have several mechs dead.

Don't retreat when you don't have to - dissipation per single heatsinks was never above 0.2
So 0.01 is correct

When I would have a dissipation of 1.5 per DHS my Mechs wouldn't overheat at all simple because my 14 DHS Atlas could dissipate 26 HPS - the Warhawk would be able to Alpha every 4 seconds and don't give a damn about Ghost Heat

Edited by Karl Streiger, 15 December 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Karl Streiger, on 15 December 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

4 DHS external is almost the maximum you will find on most IS Mechs. Reason is the need for ES and the size of those sinks.
the change don't turn a Mech that overheat before into a wonder of sustained fire.

FYI - Heatsinks mounted in the extra slots in the engine (5 extra in 375 engine for example) do count as external DHS - so its more like 8-11 external DHS on IS mechs.

[Karl Streiger]

Widowmaker1981, on 15 December 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

FYI - Heatsinks mounted in the extra slots in the engine (5 extra in 375 engine for example) do count as external DHS - so its more like 8-11 external DHS on IS mechs.

I know the difference between external and internal. (Have even writen a Steam Guide last year showing the difference)
But 4 is really the average number I use on my Mechs. Primary because of the heavy load of missiles and ballistics - most heatsinks i have on the BNC-3M with 11 external but this is the exception, a Zeus with 9 External - with the second highest number of HS.

Maybe the Battlemaster and a Stalker might get near (no not the stalker - the engine cap might to small)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 15 December 2016 - 06:44 AM.

[Natred]

My best estimate is that they did not implement this change even though they were supposed too. Or they shadow nerfed something else

[Karl Streiger]

Natred, on 15 December 2016 - 07:56 AM, said:

My best estimate is that they did not implement this change even though they were supposed too. Or they shadow nerfed something else

Talking about capacity. You might mistake it for dissipation - the change would hardly grant a hellstar that has the most CDHS I can think of 10 additional points of cap - not even the heat of a ERPPC - next to nothing to the 50 cap you get for free