58 replies to this topic

[LowSubmarino]

This is the one thing that turns like 6 or 7 out of 10 games into mindless stomps.

Either you stomp the other team because 5 + of their mechs just completly split off and you roll over little pieces of their team as if you were invading a one person, 1 squaremeter country with no weapons with an army of a billion futuristic cyborgs, each of them able to singlehandedly beat up and destroy 1000000000000 T1000s.

Its no fun.

Even if you are the one rolling over them.

Or its your team that just insists on completly splitting.

This happens so often.....ppl are so adament to just move brainlessly, mostly chasing an elusive unaware 'tail' or unassuming mechs for easy kills, that they forget everything and anything.

Instead of actually fighting and reacting to what they see. Instead of not doing the stupid thing over and over again they just keep insisting on doing it.

Dying to it and getting owned by it over and over and over again.

I cant even remember how many times I told ppl to e.g. simply never ever fight inside the canyon on canyon network.

It has no vision. Its bad for major assaults. Lets small numbers of fast skirmishers or mobile snipers use it for surprise backstaps or flanks to then quickly retreat.

But ppl actually maneuver an army of completly immobile heavy and assaults down there and dont get me wrong. They actaully do win - very rarely - against impossibly bad teams.

And then assume 'hell yeah....this worked those few games so hell yeah we could just go down there again'.

Against any half good team they will burn and get completly stomped down there. No vision. No range. No nothing. They get surrounded and hammered from all side with the remaining snipers and smarter players on the high ground being exposed to way too much fire power. They cannot cover the main body anymore as they are the center of attention. Getting hammrered. Forced to retreat or they just die.

And then the main group is without any flankers or snipers. And they just die in seconds.

Its so obvious and so easy to understand that higher ground is infinitely better that I wonder each time I see that how ppl could ever come to the conclusion that this is good. And I see players going down there who I have seen for a long time.

And this brainless splitting strategy which is basically the only way about 75 or 85 % of the unconnected (no voice communication, no group, just pugging with chat or commandwheel for what its worth) puggers know how to play is so sad.

Its just sad and destroys more tactical, more strategica. more of everything - games. Where you try to figure out how to beat the other team as a team.

A few games ago I tell another team on canyon network/assault right at the start 'no...dont run middle. Before you split check their c5 push first'.

They dont respond except 2 or 3 who join me on the left side.

A major push comes over c5 (which happens 90 % of the time in that mode/on that map.

We hat to leave.

One mech dies.

The rest of the team stands in the middle. They dont attack the other base and they dont cover our base.

We get capped and they start to single file into the attackers to defend our base.

They all die.

And this is T1 and T2.

So my question.

Why are most players in mwo just no only a little bit bad or just bad....why are 75 - 85 % of mwo players - no matter the Tier - so incredibly überbad?

Does mwo somehow manage to attract players that are way worse than lets say COD players?

I played one cod game competitively quite a few years ago.

There was tough competition.

Smart players. Lots of skill.

Good games.

Why are most games in mwo so brainless and the players sooooo bad?

is it just me that keeps wondering about that? I mean is it just my perception? Or do other ppl scratch their head too?

I get good teams too.

We dont need chat.

We dont need even voiceip.

We just see whats happeing, know what will most likely happen and maybe somebody just initiates the formation/group movement by saying 'lets defend xy for a start and see what they do'.

We move their. Spread out. Cover each other. Dont split. And we either win or get those really good, long, hard, nice battles and close games.

So those ppl do exist in mwo.

But they are a minority.

Sadly a small minority.

[Deathlike]

What if I told you that the bulk of the players actively playing are mostly casuals that haven't been taught what it takes to be a good MechWarrior?

Some of the better players have either left, been on an "extended" MWO vacation. Whatever remains are still in a comp team, in the queues, probably not intended to "farm" the rest of the awful competition.

When people decide that "LRMs are the best way to score on the leaderboard", this is why you experience what you experience. People generally don't know any better, and will keep attempting to bang their head against the proverbial wall while not understanding the basics of "getting better at this game". Tryharding is "frowned upon" despite those "tryhards" offering to help others to get better at the game.

Why are you surprised?

Edited by Deathlike, 15 August 2016 - 12:33 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

Sometimes one cannot help but wish MWO had teamwork like in Guns of Icarus Online.
I remember our captain forgot to activate his mic once. He tossed out orders and none of us heard them.
Despite not hearing him we did everything he wanted us to do like a well oiled machine. It wasn't till after the match he discovered his mic wasn't on.

We steamrolled the other team and we were a missmass crew that didn't know each other.
If role warfare was really a thing then we could possibly through a series of miracles actually see a smidgen of that teamwork.

[Davers]

Because there is no player investment in the game? It's all about grinding out cbills or xp and not about intelligently playing each match? Because the game has a "how many matches can I fit in tonight" mentality? Maybe they get tired of half the team hiding all the time and just want to do "something"?

*Shrug*

[TheMisled]

It seems as though these events tend to bring out all of the stupid in the MWO player base in droves. Some of the things that I've seen have been boyond stupid and I myself have gotten into many arguments with players you are adamant that they are doing things right (Sitting at the rear and complaining that people aren't giving them locks while the rest of the team is putting thier arses in the line of fire). You'd think that even though they are seemingly devoid of any brain cells they would at least be able to respond to me constantly shouting down the mic to cap bases in conquest to which all but one guy responded to in which he capped a base not long after the start of the match. One of them even had the balls to have a go at me for 'Not being with the rest of the group' among other things such as 'Assualts shouldn't be capping' to which I told him that no-one else was doing so and someone had to cap. Sure enough 2 lights got away at the end and we lost by cap.

The group queue seems to be doing a bit better as most of the people who do group up are part of a unit and at least know the difference between a friendly and enemy (Had one guy neraly kill me by trying to shoot a wolverine on the other side of me...)

Hopefully once this event is over, thing will start to calm down a bit; you wont get bombarded by a few thousand LRMs the moment you're spotted; and you team will actually play the gamemode they voted for.

[Deathlike]

Davers, on 15 August 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Because there is no player investment in the game? It's all about grinding out cbills or xp and not about intelligently playing each match? Because the game has a "how many matches can I fit in tonight" mentality? Maybe they get tired of half the team hiding all the time and just want to do "something"?

*Shrug*

There is player investment... just not from the New Player Experience and definitely not by PGI themselves. Yes, you may have an Academy, but not teaching people to work together is why we reached a point where we got a solo queue that is literally isolated from everyone else. Somehow "working together" is evil, and people don't even attempt to practice it... and somehow expect positive results?

In a game where teamwork is the ultimate form of success, the environment that this happens to be doesn't seem to preach it and catering to "soloists" who don't want to listen/think/help is why we get the kinds of results we do here.

It's not that the culture can't change - we simply would have to weed out people that really really really don't want to work with each other... and that's a very hard proposition at this stage of the game outside of either incentivizing it or start bothering to cultivate it.


We already have really loud and obnoxious players that think others are doing something illegal... when a lot can be explained by using the brain. Still, these are the voices that get their own way.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 August 2016 - 12:51 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Spleenslitta, on 15 August 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Sometimes one cannot help but wish MWO had teamwork like in Guns of Icarus Online.
I remember our captain forgot to activate his mic once. He tossed out orders and none of us heard them.
Despite not hearing him we did everything he wanted us to do like a well oiled machine. It wasn't till after the match he discovered his mic wasn't on.

We steamrolled the other team and we were a missmass crew that didn't know each other.
If role warfare was really a thing then we could possibly through a series of miracles actually see a smidgen of that teamwork.

Thing is most people in T1 T2 and in many cases T3 shouldn't need any orders either, the maps are that small and played over and over again, people should know where the good spots are, what happens if you go left instead of right, but they don't do what's needed because some people want to sit at the back take cheap shots and farm the other side and look big, and that's where it falls on its face.

MWO really isn't a hard game to play well, but so many chose to play it badly.

Old Everquest raids were far far more complex than any online FPS and comms didn't exists back then people knew what to do by learning it and knowing what to do.

Things go badly here because people chose not to play correctly, far more, than because they don't know what to do, and that's why you see salt and rage at the stupid.

[jjm1]

Its not a team game. Its 24 solo players playing off against each other for the best score.

This is all MWO PUG best practice from what I'm seeing:

• Always let your team mates do the scouting, peeking and targeting.
  
• Hang back in a coordinated push. If it goes south, you can say it was a bad move, if not you can go in late with fresh armor and heat.
  
• Abandon the team the moment it looks hot, your too special to die in the last ditch defence.
  
• Bring a 100 ton lurm boat and don't expose it until every last one of your scrub spotters is dead.
  
• Leave that enemy UAV alone if its not bothering you in particular, the extra points aren't worth the hassle.
  
• Once your team chump has done all the hard work bringing a strong enemy to his knees, step up and secure the kill.
  
• Shooting at lights gives lousy damage awards. Just make sure to keep positioning yourself so they back-stab someone else instead.

[Stone Wall]

Deathlike, on 15 August 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

What if I told you that the bulk of the players actively playing are mostly casuals that haven't been taught what it takes to be a good MechWarrior?

Some of the better players have either left, been on an "extended" MWO vacation. Whatever remains are still in a comp team, in the queues, probably not intended to "farm" the rest of the awful competition.

When people decide that "LRMs are the best way to score on the leaderboard", this is why you experience what you experience. People generally don't know any better, and will keep attempting to bang their head against the proverbial wall while not understanding the basics of "getting better at this game". Tryharding is "frowned upon" despite those "tryhards" offering to help others to get better at the game.

Why are you surprised?

I know I am better than new players, players who don't know what MechWarrioring is, LRM addicts, etc. I took a long break from the game, but I came back. I know of some godly MW3 players who tried the game longer than I did, but they never came back to the game. You add the 2nd bold part and we can blame that on PSR. If LRMers and bad players could play everyone in the game, they would change tactics or get insta-rolled over and over. Instead it's potato farming in the bottom Tiers. You don't learn anything from that other than what works at the bottom.

[Alistair Winter]

This is why the Spartans kicked everyone's *** in ancient greece.

There's a big difference between units that train together and are used to working together and fighting together, as opposed to units of disorganized people just cobbled together and put on the same team. Even if both groups know how to fight, it's different when you're actually used to working as a team.

Group queue and solo queue are two very different experiences, in many ways. That being said... MWO is still MWO. There's no information warfare, there's no role warfare. Without retrictions, it seems like every 12 man team would have 10-12 Timber Wolves / Black Knights / Thunderbolts / CTF-3D poptarts / [insert whatever meta is appropriate since 2012] and maybe 1 or 2 other mechs. So even with teamwork, MWO isn't going to be like a modern army where different elements work together to create synergy (tanks, tank hunters, artillery, scouts, etc). There's still no synergy in this game.

But group queue isn't just brainless pushing, at least.

[Piney II]

It's PUGs.

Most are not in it for TEAM, they're in it for SELF.

Every now and then you can get a match with players on VOIP that will cooperate. This is the exception.

If you want a team that consistantly has a drive to cooperate and win, join a group / team and run with them.

If you don't, accept PUG games for what they have always been.

[Johnny Z]

Theres good matches and bad matches.

Until there is more elements like gunships and tanks, and more game modes, and everything else players just have to have fun in a very fun game as is.

They are working on those things. So the rumours say...

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 August 2016 - 01:53 PM.

[InspectorG]

oneda, on 15 August 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Sadly a small minority.

Brainless Push > Brainless Camp

[Clownwarlord]

oneda, on 15 August 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

This is the one thing that turns like 6 or 7 out of 10 games into mindless stomps.

Either you stomp the other team because 5 + of their mechs just completly split off and you roll over little pieces of their team as if you were invading a one person, 1 squaremeter country with no weapons with an army of a billion futuristic cyborgs, each of them able to singlehandedly beat up and destroy 1000000000000 T1000s.

Its no fun.

Even if you are the one rolling over them.

Or its your team that just insists on completly splitting.

This happens so often.....ppl are so adament to just move brainlessly, mostly chasing an elusive unaware 'tail' or unassuming mechs for easy kills, that they forget everything and anything.

Instead of actually fighting and reacting to what they see. Instead of not doing the stupid thing over and over again they just keep insisting on doing it.

Dying to it and getting owned by it over and over and over again.

I cant even remember how many times I told ppl to e.g. simply never ever fight inside the canyon on canyon network.

It has no vision. Its bad for major assaults. Lets small numbers of fast skirmishers or mobile snipers use it for surprise backstaps or flanks to then quickly retreat.

But ppl actually maneuver an army of completly immobile heavy and assaults down there and dont get me wrong. They actaully do win - very rarely - against impossibly bad teams.

And then assume 'hell yeah....this worked those few games so hell yeah we could just go down there again'.

Against any half good team they will burn and get completly stomped down there. No vision. No range. No nothing. They get surrounded and hammered from all side with the remaining snipers and smarter players on the high ground being exposed to way too much fire power. They cannot cover the main body anymore as they are the center of attention. Getting hammrered. Forced to retreat or they just die.

And then the main group is without any flankers or snipers. And they just die in seconds.

Its so obvious and so easy to understand that higher ground is infinitely better that I wonder each time I see that how ppl could ever come to the conclusion that this is good. And I see players going down there who I have seen for a long time.

And this brainless splitting strategy which is basically the only way about 75 or 85 % of the unconnected (no voice communication, no group, just pugging with chat or commandwheel for what its worth) puggers know how to play is so sad.

Its just sad and destroys more tactical, more strategica. more of everything - games. Where you try to figure out how to beat the other team as a team.

A few games ago I tell another team on canyon network/assault right at the start 'no...dont run middle. Before you split check their c5 push first'.

They dont respond except 2 or 3 who join me on the left side.

A major push comes over c5 (which happens 90 % of the time in that mode/on that map.

We hat to leave.

One mech dies.

The rest of the team stands in the middle. They dont attack the other base and they dont cover our base.

We get capped and they start to single file into the attackers to defend our base.

They all die.

And this is T1 and T2.

So my question.

Why are most players in mwo just no only a little bit bad or just bad....why are 75 - 85 % of mwo players - no matter the Tier - so incredibly überbad?

Does mwo somehow manage to attract players that are way worse than lets say COD players?

I played one cod game competitively quite a few years ago.

There was tough competition.

Smart players. Lots of skill.

Good games.

Why are most games in mwo so brainless and the players sooooo bad?

is it just me that keeps wondering about that? I mean is it just my perception? Or do other ppl scratch their head too?

I get good teams too.

We dont need chat.

We dont need even voiceip.

We just see whats happeing, know what will most likely happen and maybe somebody just initiates the formation/group movement by saying 'lets defend xy for a start and see what they do'.

We move their. Spread out. Cover each other. Dont split. And we either win or get those really good, long, hard, nice battles and close games.

So those ppl do exist in mwo.

But they are a minority.

Sadly a small minority.

I would like to point out after I scrolled just a little I decided not to read this great wall of text, and I do not mean great as in content but great as in a lot.

[LordNothing]

brainless pushing is a lot more fun that brainless not pushing (and a lot more effective too). when brains are in short supply use aggression.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 August 2016 - 02:07 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

I fully agree with the OP. Lot of players seem to forget that MWO is still a tactical shooter. I remember I had a match where it was me in a PPC shadowcat and a ERLL raven, last 2 mechs standing, vs a SPL nova, a shadowcat, and a locust. I was getting yelled at on comms and in chat because I told the raven to retreat from the battle..he just wanted to circle strafe with all 3 of them. What did he say? Run?

Lets break it down why I wanted to run - Nasty nova, top speed 87kph. Locust 168? Shadowcat 104-128. If we break off from the fight, their speed differences will separate them. They will most likely peruse and we won't have to fight 3 of them at the same time at a heavy firepower disadvantage, and at the very least we'll get that SPL nova out of the fight cuz we were both faster. But man, players don't think like this. All about facing your enemy down in a brawl no matter the circumstances. Needless to say the brawling ERLL raven died. Followed through on my, strat logged in 3 kills for the win.

[El Bandito]

When players are intentionally refusing to lock for friendly LRM boats out of general distaste for the playstyle, one simply wonders about the average IQ of the puggers. Refusing teamwork and losing just so you can harm your own side is like someone who would cut off his own nose to spite his own face.

Sigh...

[adamts01]

Spleenslitta, on 15 August 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

If role warfare was really a thing then we could possibly through a series of miracles actually see a smidgen of that teamwork.

If 12 mechs of the same role can't work in unison, there's no way squads with different roles could work together.

e1itegamerpro, on 15 August 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

It seems as though these events tend to bring out all of the stupid in the MWO player base in droves.
........
Hopefully once this event is over, thing will start to calm down a bit; you wont get bombarded by a few thousand LRMs the moment you're spotted; and you team will actually play the gamemode they voted for.

Events always brought out the worst in people. Sadly there's an event every weekend, and now Leaderboards are a continual even. I threw in the towel on this game once and for all.

Cathy, on 15 August 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

Thing is most people in T1 T2 and in many cases T3 shouldn't need any orders either

Tier really doesn't mean much at this point. Even if it did, there aren't enough players to group like tiers anyway.

Piney, on 15 August 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

If you want a team that consistantly has a drive to cooperate and win, join a group / team and run with them.

If you don't, accept PUG games for what they have always been.

It wasn't always this bad. 2 years ago there was so much more talent and cooperation in matches. This "**** it, it's solo que, let's go take a **** on our team" attitude is only about 6 months old. And honestly, I don't find group que much better, it's a few little clusters doing their own thing with no teamwork or communication. As for a 12 man, you run with a decent group and it's nothing but seal clubbing and a race to see who can get the most kills. If you run with a mixed tier group then you get owned with more tonnage. **** it all, I've moved on. But it's still fun talking about big stompy robots.

Planetside 2 till something better comes along.

[Monkey Lover]

LordNothing, on 15 August 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

brainless pushing is a lot more fun that brainless not pushing (and a lot more effective too). when brains are in short supply use aggression.

Got to agree with you the most aggrieve team in pug land will win 99% of the time.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

far far away in the golden Age before Steam Launch the Games tactical Fights with very good old Warriors...the most like me left now this stupid Roboramble .If you find older Warriors in a Pug team ,all fighting very good with no Communication ,have Tactical in the Blood, and you have interesting Fights ...sadly -now we have most the Transformers Robocraft Smilie Generation, to many Kids and Teens to play after the scool

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 15 August 2016 - 08:11 PM.