194 replies to this topic

[Huntsman]

*** is up with all the immature behavior in this thread? Its a question not a personal attack..is this game really scheduled to come out summer 2012? TBH I'd be lying if it wasn't also in the back of my own mind that several months from release we don't have more than some concept art and a video from 2009.

I'm not saying whether the game is on time or not...only the devs know that...but I do feel a level of skepticism that I hope is proved to be baseless.

I wonder if all the rage is just about that same thing...die hard fa who refuse to accept even the slightest possibility that they won't be strapping themselves into MWO come this summer....

[Gaizokubanou]

I don't think it's a vaporware, but the question on absence of any in-game media is a very good question. It's an amazingly good question with the context of 2012 summer release date.

I mean I have to assume that the game is at least in alpha stage of the development if it's planned to be released in less than a year.

[GrayPanther]

Oh and looking over WOT's history. It went from idea to ALFA in 8 months. Then from ALFA to closed BETA in 4 months. Then closed to open BETA in 12 months. Then 3 months later to live.

Granted that's just what there wiki says. Here is to hoping the engine allows then to really get the basics in place in 9 months.

[Volume]

First off, I would like to thank the moderators for unlocking this thread. I also want to thank the devs and let them know that I see what they're doing, and I like it, and even if it's the "same 30-40 people responding to threads" it probably has something to do with the fact that most people just read the news and don't post/respond. Even if it's the same 30-40 people on threads, there are many, many more "guests" and anonymous users viewing and watching, and they will probably be here when this game comes out. I don't have statistics on this but the forums have been and will always be a "vocal minority" for every single game that has ever existed. Most people will not be hopping on to say "Great work I'll see you when it's done" and leave - they will wait until the time is right to post.

That said, I am very happy with what the developers have released so far, and I look forward to every Wednesday at 10 am knowing that there will be something new and cool to see. I appreciate it all so far and I'm not making any demands, and neither is the creator of this topic. Honestly, I would rather the game come out much later and have a better launch than have all development cut off at summer 2012. I am glad that they are working, and working very fast (agile development <3), and they can definitely do it, but I think I speak for plenty of people that they'd rather see a good game come out a few months later than a bad game come out on time. I've seen games killed by buggy launches, or multiplayer games killed by poor balance at launch, which is fixed in a later patch, after most players already quit and word of mouth spread about the game being bad. So please don't mess up the launch. <3


Secondly, I would like to bring a few things up that haven't been mentioned here yet.

1: Hawken. Hawken put out a trailer of in-game PRE-ALPHA footage, and people fell in love with it to the point that they had interviews, discussions for a movie contract, publisher offers, etc, etc. I get the feeling that people would love some pre-alpha footage of this game. While I don't think MWO needs to take this route at all, I think these are a few of the benefits that the OP was talking about.

2: Trailers. I've seen a trailer for the 2009 game and that was fine and good, but even like a 23 second snippet of something in the game engine would shut a lot of non-believers up. For example, see the following:

I personally believe that we don't need to see it yet, and that closed alpha/beta/whatever testing will occur, and we will be invited, and we will provide very useful feedback for getting the game ready for release.

The truth is, none of us know anything about the game or the gameplay right now. We have seen some ideas and concept art (very very good ideas and very very good concept art), but right now, as of the time of this writing, we don't know what it is. Maybe it's playable and could be released today with some tweaks, like when DotA 2 was revealed - or maybe it's practically nonexistent like Diablo III when it was announced.

The bottom line is, they're working on it. I wouldn't be too worried about the six-month timeframe because it's not a deadline of "Game DVDs, manuals, boxes all need to be made and logistically we need to ship these out to all major retailers on this date." It's a deadline of "Hopefully we can let people download this client and login and play on this day." If the devs were to fail to meet the first one a ton of money is instantly lost. If the second one can't be met, they can move it around. It's just an arbitrary guideline. Hopefully no one is working 16 hour shifts to animate that Atlas in a sandbox. It will come when it comes.

I know I seem laid back but I'm not trying to be sagely or anything - just saying to relax and understand that we would like to see it, but it's not necessary. I'm not saying it's vaporware. Obviously things didn't look too good for a while but that's why it's being developed and released with an independent publisher and not, say, "EA" or "ACTIVISION" or something. I want them to take their time and make it wonderful. I am already convinced that they will support it well after release with content updates and such. Honestly I wish I could help fund the project but I can't find any donate links like I do on the MWLL and MekTek sites. I love this game series and franchise and I want to see it succeed with all my heart. I'm not clamoring against the devs to fail, and neither is the OP - he's just a concerned member of our crew here who is worried BECAUSE HE IS PASSIONATE ABOUT THE GAME. He wants to see it, he wants part of it, he wants to believe, and, unlike most of us, he needs more than what he's seen to believe. Personally I could see nothing and have blind faith in it. Some people need concept art as proof, some people need game footage as proof. Either way, it will come when it comes.

Good luck.

Since the incarnation and announcement of this game, I personally feel that it is NOT vaporware. Let it get to this time in 2012 without the game being out, then we can start talking about it

[Red Beard]

I think the topic creator just needs attention and figured this would be a nice way to get people to pay some. Over ten million dollars invested already, this is no vaporware.

Nintendo was widely accused of having created vaporware out of the N64. They played their cards close to their chest for over two years without showing anything to the media. Topic creator has down syndrome. Period.

[Red Beard]

DV^McKenna, on 10 December 2011 - 05:44 PM, said:

Something, anything that actually represents in game stuff, doesn't matter if it is a model,an animation, a frapsed video. something that shows A) Where the development is at,, B ) Where they are going with their take on the universe, C) to give the community something to talk about constructivly that doesn't require the 1000th Poll thread.

In other words, the only thing that will satisfy YOU, is actual VIDEO. In your mind, artistry, game planning, mech layouts, rule set designs, website management, interviews, stock meetings, personnel recruitment, blogs, tweets, forum creations, and every other NON video portions DON'T count as part of making this game. Stop breathing, cause you are wasting good air.

[EGG]

A good rule of thumb is:

Is there a chance this game will never be released ? - Yes

Is that worth losing sleep over ? - No

Do the Devs owe us anything (money? hostage children? stole your Natasha Kerensky CCG card in school in 1993?) - No

Is it better to spend the time instead simply discussing what has been released and mech/BT concepts in general ? - Yes

Also, I think I like you Red Beard, even if you did come here via MechAssault.

[metro]

OP.....this is the 3rd or 4th thread someone has had the nerve to call Vaporware.

So expect it to be locked or deleted I assume as soon as a MOD see's it.

Ya should have had the creativity, to call it, "WHERES THE BEEF"?? or something a little more original.

Edited by Metro, 11 December 2011 - 02:44 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Red Beard, on 10 December 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:

Read this, and then come back and tell me if you still think that this is vaporware. I am waiting with baited breath to destroy you in-game so many times it hurts. You insult me. Unbelievable. We should all shun this unkknowing waste of skin.


http://www.montrealg...0965/story.html

Grown professional men are beyond your thoughts and you have wasted enough time.

Really? most of your entire posting history is nothing but insults and you talk of grown professional men? Yea you'll see me in game cool points for you!

S3dition, on 10 December 2011 - 07:41 PM, said:

Then don't. Leave, and never come back. There are plenty of us here who want to build a community and support the game. We don't need people like you who do nothing but tear it down.

Great Idea, but a community of 30k is not going to be enough to sustain the game and generate enough funding for the follow up project.

Red Beard, on 10 December 2011 - 10:44 PM, said:

I think the topic creator just needs attention and figured this would be a nice way to get people to pay some. Over ten million dollars invested already, this is no vaporware.

Nintendo was widely accused of having created vaporware out of the N64. They played their cards close to their chest for over two years without showing anything to the media. Topic creator has down syndrome. Period.

Yes true money has been invested, but money has also been invested in many canceled projects across the globe. As to the N64 dont know about the US, but it was never really a massive hit here in Europe.

Red Beard, on 10 December 2011 - 10:49 PM, said:

In other words, the only thing that will satisfy YOU, is actual VIDEO. In your mind, artistry, game planning, mech layouts, rule set designs, website management, interviews, stock meetings, personnel recruitment, blogs, tweets, forum creations, and every other NON video portions DON'T count as part of making this game. Stop breathing, cause you are wasting good air.

Nope not true, a model from a modeling program, mech layouts, are all good, it shows progress. Again with the insults? Internet Tough Guy syndrome perhaps? Oh and there is this great Multiquote tool for when you want to respond to multiple things, saves your post count....

That said.
Volume Nice post.

Edited by DV^McKenna, 11 December 2011 - 02:59 AM.

[idle crow]

S3dition, on 10 December 2011 - 07:41 PM, said:

Then don't. Leave, and never come back. There are plenty of us here who want to build a community and support the game. We don't need people like you who do nothing but tear it down.

Your not going to build a good community if anyone who ask a question or request something is told to leave and never come back. It's your right to disagree with me. But I stand with DV in I like to see some in game footage.

Asking to see in game footage is not an unreasonable request either.Even a release date as to when we can expect to see it would be nice.

[Gaizokubanou]

Red Beard, on 10 December 2011 - 10:49 PM, said:

In other words, the only thing that will satisfy YOU, is actual VIDEO. In your mind, artistry, game planning, mech layouts, rule set designs, website management, interviews, stock meetings, personnel recruitment, blogs, tweets, forum creations, and every other NON video portions DON'T count as part of making this game. Stop breathing, cause you are wasting good air.

Or a screenshot. Or render of 3d model. Or maps (not the clan-lore meta map, like actual map where you will play on).

Pwned.

[Mchawkeye]

DV^McKenna, on 11 December 2011 - 02:55 AM, said:

Great Idea, but a community of 30k is not going to be enough to sustain the game and generate enough funding for the follow up project.

You keep saying that. A little short sighted to assume that it's going to remain at 30K? It's months to release and the amount of marketing they are doing increases the volume of information every-week like clockwork.

There will be an in game video. It will increase the attention to the game. It's not a matter of if, but when. The sooner the better, I grant you.

And when that happens, the 30k you keep talking about will increase. I don't know by how much, but it is and will continue to be a growing figure. so don't assume that because there are only so many here now, when the game comes out and we start playing there won't be more. And ultimately, the playership is what counts toward a game being considered successful, not the number of people interested in it several months before launch.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Mchawkeye, on 11 December 2011 - 05:08 AM, said:

You keep saying that. A little short sighted to assume that it's going to remain at 30K? It's months to release and the amount of marketing they are doing increases the volume of information every-week like clockwork.

There will be an in game video. It will increase the attention to the game. It's not a matter of if, but when. The sooner the better, I grant you.

And when that happens, the 30k you keep talking about will increase. I don't know by how much, but it is and will continue to be a growing figure. so don't assume that because there are only so many here now, when the game comes out and we start playing there won't be more. And ultimately, the playership is what counts toward a game being considered successful, not the number of people interested in it several months before launch.

True, but the sooner you capture your audience before another game is announced that takes the spot light away the better is it not?
To take MWLL as an example, fantastic concept and looks wonderful. But it took them too long to develop it to a state that would have been useable (playable and useable are different things). Now MWO has been announced and that has had an effect on MWLL much like it did on Mektek, although with their recent announcement they will have clawed back interest.

IF they are using this as a launch platform to showcase to publishers demand is still within the MW franchise and to raise some funds towards production of a full game, the player base will have to be massive 100's Thousands to cover development costs.
Would they not need to start targeting an increase in the player base sooner rather than later?

[Mchawkeye]

DV^McKenna, on 11 December 2011 - 05:27 AM, said:

True, but the sooner you capture your audience before another game is announced that takes the spot light away the better is it not?
To take MWLL as an example, fantastic concept and looks wonderful. But it took them too long to develop it to a state that would have been useable (playable and useable are different things). Now MWO has been announced and that has had an effect on MWLL much like it did on Mektek, although with their recent announcement they will have clawed back interest.

IF they are using this as a launch platform to showcase to publishers demand is still within the MW franchise and to raise some funds towards production of a full game, the player base will have to be massive 100's Thousands to cover development costs.
Would they not need to start targeting an increase in the player base sooner rather than later?

Valid, to a point. but they already have publishers and therefore the budget. this forum isn't about generating funds. it's about generating interest and ideas. And it's doing that at a rate I think surprised the Devs. Not all marketing is wham bang as much as possible as quickly as possible.

Sometimes it's smart to use us, as I think they are doing, as a focus group as opposed to a locked in player base. That will be generated much closer to time, with demos and a like, just like every other game on the planet.

This isn't the first party PGI have held. I think we should trust the professionals to know what they are doing. Whether you agree with their tactics or not, you have to realise that these people are far from stupid and have some sense of what they are doing.

[infi]

I seem to be quite capable of generating a lot of hate by my posts... must be the fact I'm a spoiled only child or something (and a bit of a d**k in real life ) but understand I am actually reading your posts and taking them seriously (at least the ones that aren't blatant attacks) as I'm sure a few people in the Mechwarrior (read: NBT) community will recognise my tag.

Mchawkeye, on 11 December 2011 - 05:46 AM, said:

Whether you agree with their tactics or not, you have to realise that these people are far from stupid and have some sense of what they are doing.

Mchawkeye, I don't believe at anywhere or any time the OP or indeed the people that have agreed with him have said anything quite as blatant as that so kindly refrain from putting words in their mouth to strengthen you own point.

And to the people calling for the thread to be locked... there's a little thing called free speech that our countries adhere to and you don't silence people you disagree with by calling for them to be removed or their points not allowed to be aired (which is funny coming mainly from S3dition who appears to be running some kind of Mechwarrior radio). People can have different points of view and some of those may even be wrong (even so its healthy for not everyone to be of the same mindset as yourself) - but that's the great thing about an opinion... it can be changed by constructive debate.

Oh and a good case in point is Volume's post - whilst I don't agree with him 100% that is exactly how we 'should' be debating... kudos Volume

Edited by infi, 11 December 2011 - 06:11 AM.

[Zevious]

DV^McKenna, on 11 December 2011 - 05:27 AM, said:

True, but the sooner you capture your audience before another game is announced that takes the spot light away the better is it not?

Just to remind you of this McKenna..

Haeso, on 10 December 2011 - 11:19 AM, said:

Also, they need to have things to keep releasing up until launch. You'd be surprised how little you have to talk about if every week you're doing an expose on a game feature. We used to run the same deal where I work, every week we'd have an interview or a spotlight on a feature, and towards the end we realized, "Well ****, we're out of things to talk about"

I think, between 4 to 5 months before estimated release would be a more realistic expectation for an increased PR push.

[Silent]

DV^McKenna, on 11 December 2011 - 02:55 AM, said:

Great Idea, but a community of 30k is not going to be enough to sustain the game and generate enough funding for the follow up project.

How so? The developers only need several thousand diehard players willing to spend their money on the game in order to generate decent funding. I'll just throw out a figure: If right now there were 8k diehard Mechwarrior players that bought up everything the developers released for this game (lets say that totals $120 at the end of the year), they'd be making $960k. That's not including the players that only occasionally purchase something. Hell, that's not even including special events or promotional deals where there's typically an influx of new blood.

[Mchawkeye]

infi, on 11 December 2011 - 06:05 AM, said:

Mchawkeye, I don't believe at anywhere or any time the OP or indeed the people that have agreed with him have said anything quite as blatant as that so kindly refrain from putting words in their mouth to strengthen you own point.

Pardon?

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Mchawkeye, on 11 December 2011 - 05:46 AM, said:

Valid, to a point. but they already have publishers and therefore the budget. this forum isn't about generating funds. it's about generating interest and ideas. And it's doing that at a rate I think surprised the Devs. Not all marketing is wham bang as much as possible as quickly as possible.

Sometimes it's smart to use us, as I think they are doing, as a focus group as opposed to a locked in player base. That will be generated much closer to time, with demos and a like, just like every other game on the planet.

This isn't the first party PGI have held. I think we should trust the professionals to know what they are doing. Whether you agree with their tactics or not, you have to realise that these people are far from stupid and have some sense of what they are doing.

Not sure if ideas have been mixed up, There was not a publisher interested in releasing a MW game in the current market climate (the 2009 trailer) and so MWO was born, however there has been indication that they would hope that if this project is successful it would convince a publisher somewhere that a new MW game could be profitable in the future.
So i know they have the funding for this game, this game is about the future of the MW franchise if it is not successful (and in industry that would be large playerbase = Financial Return) then it would be unlikely there would be much more in the future.

Which brings me back round to the playerbase yes its at 30k now (how many unique we don't know) and yes it will go up and down who knows where it will be at by the time the game, or persistent beta is released. It would still be better for the base to be far bigger than it currently is.

Possibly an Interesting discussion point (it may turn out not to be), the Up coming Star Wars game (granted its much more popular).
It was announced in October 2008 at an invitation only event, they had produced screenshots/videos of in game content in the same very month although they had obviously been working on it longer.
We are at best guess and it is a guess 6 months into work here, and only had concept art.

I picked Star Wars as its probably the eaisest one, but the above is true for most game development cycles.

[Mchawkeye]

DV^McKenna, on 11 December 2011 - 06:18 AM, said:

Not sure if ideas have been mixed up, There was not a publisher interested in releasing a MW game in the current market climate (the 2009 trailer) and so MWO was born, however there has been indication that they would hope that if this project is successful it would convince a publisher somewhere that a new MW game could be profitable in the future.
So i know they have the funding for this game, this game is about the future of the MW franchise if it is not successful (and in industry that would be large playerbase = Financial Return) then it would be unlikely there would be much more in the future.

Which brings me back round to the playerbase yes its at 30k now (how many unique we don't know) and yes it will go up and down who knows where it will be at by the time the game, or persistent beta is released. It would still be better for the base to be far bigger than it currently is.

Possibly an Interesting discussion point (it may turn out not to be), the Up coming Star Wars game (granted its much more popular).
It was announced in October 2008 at an invitation only event, they had produced screenshots/videos of in game content in the same very month although they had obviously been working on it longer.
We are at best guess and it is a guess 6 months into work here, and only had concept art.

I picked Star Wars as its probably the eaisest one, but the above is true for most game development cycles.

Of course more would be better. of course it would.

But these people have targets designed into there marketing plan/business plan and they must be at least meeting them 9the impression i get is that they are beating them), or things would have changed, I would have thought. Not all games, like SW which has cost hundreds of millions to produce, need massive figures to guarantee their initial or continuing success.

That, and of course what will be released in the summer will be a small part of what the game will ultimately become. and it's those figures that decide the fate of the franchise, no the number of people who signed up months away from release; isn't that kinda like judging a film on the number of tickets prebooked as opposed to the number of people who actually sat bums on seats?