66 replies to this topic

[MrJeffers]

El Bandito, on 19 August 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

IMO making it flat 20% of the population per tier might work. So the top 20% will always be at T1, regardless of their skill level, and the next 20% will be T2 etc...

If it was just a relative skill ranking, aka zero sum, aka elo like system there would be no need for hard tiers and the player rankings would naturally form a bell curve of skill rankings automatically. No need to figure out and program how to limit tiers to fixed percentages and still have it dynamically change that percentage based on matches when those people are not playing each other directly. It would effectively lock people into their existing tier without some convoluted programming work on PSR.

Edited by MrJeffers, 19 August 2016 - 08:21 AM.

[El Bandito]

MrJeffers, on 19 August 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

If it was just a relative skill ranking, aka zero sum, aka elo like system there would be no need for hard tiers and the player rankings would naturally form a bell curve of skill rankings automatically. No need to figure out and program how to limit tiers to fixed percentages and still have it dynamically change that percentage based on matches when those people are not playing each other directly. It would effectively lock people into their existing tier without some convoluted programming work on PSR.

One issue with bell curve is that those guys on the top would be hard pressed to find a match, with MWO's limited playerbase.

[UnofficialOperator]

Your team mates were probably the new beta AI they were testing...

[LowSubmarino]

Okay.
Peace.
I can rage a lot. Is my turkish blood.
I dont wanne diz the entire community. Its just that i think ppl do weird stuff so often. Sometimes that can frustrate me alot.

[prox]

Navid A1, on 19 August 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

I think Tier system is turned off at the moment.

I believe as well. Solo q matchmaking was fine till 2-3 month ago, and is way more random currently. Maybe to fill summer low of player population.

[Snowbluff]

If you think this is bad, you should play Warframe.

[MrJeffers]

El Bandito, on 19 August 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

One issue with bell curve is that those guys on the top would be hard pressed to find a match, with MWO's limited playerbase.

Fixed percentages for each tier has the exact same problem, it's just a stair stepped bell curve which means big drops/gains between the tiers.

[smokytehbear]

El Bandito, on 19 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Got that off your chest, OP? Good. Now go ahead and tweet Russ, to do a reset on the PSR and increase losing penalty.

No. Get rid of PSR and implement something that actually considers skill, not raw damage.

I'm always baffled how so many people (like OP) seem to think the matchmaker is the problem, and fail to notice what it's grouping people based on is not indicative of skill.

The matchmaker is probably fine but we can't tell for sure, because PSR is completely useless.

[SilentWolff]

If I said it once, I've said it a hundred times. A MM has no business in this game. You wanna give new players their own queue for 100 games or so, fine. But after that it should be sink or swim. Especially as fail as MWO MM is anyway.

[KodiakGW]

Maybe the server outage on the 12th screwed something up. From Russ's Twitter on the 12th:

"The brief server outage this morning negated the MM settings I had for the event - I re enabled them so MM should happen quicker."

Sound like I'll be skipping playing this weekend unless I can do group queue. Hope some of the JFP are playing.

[Deathlike]

smokytehbear, on 19 August 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

No. Get rid of PSR and implement something that actually considers skill, not raw damage.

I see this written many times... but... you honestly have to answer the question, "How do you figure out skill?"

This isn't trivial. Think long and hard on how the game would figure that out.

K-D ratio isn't the end all be all, but it's certainly in the right direction. Even then, kill "collecting" happens all the time.

W-L ratio is certainly important, but are all wins and losses equal?

People really need to think this one through.

[smokytehbear]

Deathlike, on 19 August 2016 - 03:24 PM, said:

I see this written many times... but... you honestly have to answer the question, "How do you figure out skill?"

This isn't trivial. Think long and hard on how the game would figure that out.

K-D ratio isn't the end all be all, but it's certainly in the right direction. Even then, kill "collecting" happens all the time.

W-L ratio is certainly important, but are all wins and losses equal?

People really need to think this one through.

All wins and losses are equal, given a large enough sample. The only legitimate complaint I hear against using W/L ratio as the only input to a matchmaker is that said sample size is just too large with 12v12, requiring thousands of games to become accurate. A better statistician than I could tell us if this is actually the case, I don't know personally.

Regardless of his answer, I don't think it would be popular anyway. Team-blaming is too rife, and there's too many idiots that actually believe you should legitimately be able to be tier 1 even if you've never won a game, ever. "My teammates" just sucked too bad, that's why I lost type deal.

Anyway, I'm grumpy because Power Draw blows. I'm going to stay away from the forums for a while.

[The Lost Boy]

Dont assume everyone understands you. There are many people who play that may not understand english. Or may have voip muted. Or just dont care as mch about winning as you. They could be a persons 8 year old stomping with dads mechs, or a chimp in a lab. One never knows. Or maybe YOU suck and everyone else is fine. Remember. YOU are the only common denominator in a loosing streak.

[MW222]

oneda, on 19 August 2016 - 03:55 AM, said:

The last ten games I get 0 !!!! (!) - 30 dmg guys in my teams.

Not one or two.

5 +.

Two games ago Colonel Oneil was in the opposing team.

One of only a handful players I know that have some skill and dont die like helpless cannonfodder.

They got owned so incredibly and overwhelmingly badly that they lost 0 : 12.

Apparently - evybody knows that - the developers of MWO believe there is some sort of balance if you throw in 1 - 3 good players in a solo pug cue. And the rest are without one single nano gram of doubt players that are as new to society as Tarzan was in his numerous abyismal movies.

They have never ever in their entire lifes seen the screen of a computer. Much less physically touched a mouse or keyboard.

My mother - god I love her dearly, shes the sweetes and kindest person ever - would do 1000 times better than what i have seen ppl do in the last 10 games.

Infinitely better.

And she has never touched a computer to play a game before. Im postive. She never has. Not to my knowledge and silly things like games only cause her to mildly smile.

So its worse than that. Its not only that there are ppl in the über Tiers 1 and 2 that have never ever in their entire lifes played a video or computer game.

Cause my mother belongs to that fraction and she would own these ppl with closed eyes so hard that they in turn would cry and scream for their mothers.

So how in the name of creation can a match maker throw in ppl that simply cannot play at all. And with 'play' i mean that they simply do not understand the simplest of concepts like 'press mouse 1 to fire the selected weapon or weapon group'.

Cause this amazing piece of information alone would make what I saw in the last 10 games virtually impossible.

So theres players that have no clue whatsover what the mouse buttons do.

Like really no idea at all.

This is no joke. Its not over the top exaggerated. Im not being cynical.

This is as serious an observation as I could ever make.

How is that even possible???????????

Those kind of games simply are no fun.

I just stopped after that stomp. And I was in the team that was stomping.

3 games before that stomp we were on crimson.

I am the only one long distance guarding tunnel from the primary ramp our team uses to get to the platfrom. I fire and fire and fire and fire x 1000000000, hitting an army of 100 mechs invading the tunnel and taking the low ground beneath our team.

I call for help multiple times.

Mechs that had ages to help me pepper them while they were slowly passing the tunnel and the access routes around the opposing ramp look down at me from the top platform as if im crazy. They see me fireing.

They see my marks. They read the chat where I said 'heavy incoming tunnel, hit them while they are approaching'.

They do not react. Not a single one of them. They just stand there and look at me.

I call for help 5 times.

When too many mechs assembled below and spread out I get attacked by 6 + mechs and have to retreat and run up the ramp.

I do not rage or even worry. I only think 'ok....maybe they simply didnt want to engage below even though any half good team would always and under any circumstances hit the enemy while they are bottlenecked and/or moving to a staging area. Cause that simply is the best time to hit them. No matter what any Einstein says thats the truth and it will for all eternity stay the truth'.

But I think 'hm okay....maybe just lazy so they wanne hit them when they try to take the ramps. Why not. I did my part and then some already. Lets fight upstairs then'.

I worry though that some ppl have no idea what kind of death trap just opened up beneath them in form of 12 mechs spreading all around the lower part facing the middle/mountain 'ramp'. BLoodthirstily hoping for complete übernoobs to sumble down there single file.

So I text 'do not go down there at this point. Dont go down. You will get completly annihilated in nanoseconds'.

Nobody answeres.

No affirmative. No 'roger' no 'ok'.

Nothing.

And do you know what happens 10 seconds later?

Just make a guess.

They begin to move down the middle ram.

Single file.

And single file means = one mech goes down and dies instantly.

The other one briefly slows down. Turns around looking up again. Turns around again to the burning carcass of his friend and moves to the exact same position.

He dies instantly at thevery same position.

I text 'why are you doing that?'

Nobody responds.

now three other mechs single file down the middle ramp. About 25 meters between them.

They

all

die

instantly.

Why am I in Tier 1 if I have to play with players that are not even 1/100ths as good as a game AI from 1759. When the old monarchs played the grandgrandgrandgreandx100000father of super mario bros on a magical device that they perceived as witchcraft.

At this point id play pve only if that was possible.

The players are killing this game.

I dont know where they come from or who they are .

But they are killing this game.

It's called load balancing.

[crashlogic]

Hey OP don't you know tier is fine - if you are on a losing team you should have played better, because after all winning and losing are the only ways to measure skill in this game.

[crashlogic]

smokytehbear, on 19 August 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

All wins and losses are equal, given a large enough sample. The only legitimate complaint I hear against using W/L ratio as the only input to a matchmaker is that said sample size is just too large with 12v12, requiring thousands of games to become accurate. A better statistician than I could tell us if this is actually the case, I don't know personally.

Regardless of his answer, I don't think it would be popular anyway. Team-blaming is too rife, and there's too many idiots that actually believe you should legitimately be able to be tier 1 even if you've never won a game, ever. "My teammates" just sucked too bad, that's why I lost type deal.

Anyway, I'm grumpy because Power Draw blows. I'm going to stay away from the forums for a while.

There are three kinds of lie: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Saying win loss averages out is a statistical platitude. The reality that in every match some player go down who don't deserve to and some players go up who don't deserve to. The deterministic variable is winning and losing. It is much easier to play well and lose with a bad team because oh yeah, its a team game.

[Bob Jenkins]

Quote

Try group queue?

It's not really any better, for me personally, in fact group que is even worse than solo que. Matchmaker is the single most frustrating thing in this game. I would play CW 100% of the time but that game mode is dead, its population is barely existent.

Wish I could say this is a rare thing, but here is an example of the other team having EIGHT assaults to our SINGLE assault. Five of those assaults were Kodiaks. Can't make this stuff up.

https://www.dropbox.....06.13.jpg?dl=0

One in ten ratio of "have a chance of winning" to "no chance" sounds pretty accurate.

[Violent Tendencies]

OP is super annoying...

[havisparco]

i think the biggest issue is the skill rating itself. no matter your particular skill, get a good team in quick play and you move up, get a bad team and move down. if you are in the unlucky streak with 0-30 dmg pleople and get owned, not matter if you have 2 kills and at least 500 dmg, you go down. on the other hand, if a complete noob, who does not know that a small pulse laser does not hit anything 1000m away somehow manages to get a few assists and the team wins 12:0, he moves up.

so i think the skill rating should be based how you perform in comparision to the rest of your team, not if your team wins or loses. if you do 500 dmg and the 2nd best in your team has 200, you clearly should not fall down, because you were twice as good as the rest. on the other hand, if your team wins and you have a hit ratio of 1:100, you probably should not go up.

i know this is a team based game, but it is increadibly frustrating that your performance does not really count when you get paired with sub-par collegues.

i think the issue gets further exacerbated by clans. as long as you are active and in a clan, no matter if you increase your skill, your tier will go up because 12 vs. 4-4-3-1 wins in 90% of all matches. thats how you have tier 1 players who are blindly running alone into the full enemy team.

Edited by havisparco, 05 September 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[Davers]

Sounds like the OP should buy his mom a mech pack and play with her.