11 replies to this topic

[GULAGRODAN]

Cant the engine determin the total amount of energy you can draw?

[FupDup]

No, because that would massively nerf mechs with low engine caps.

[Digital_Angel]

If they did engines, it would make more sense for engines to affect the energy regen rate. Kinda like real world motor systems. You battery bank is a certain size and then the motor driving your generator or alternator replenishes those batteries while the system is running.

They have already said that different mechs might get different energy maxes, they just did 30 across the board for initial testing.

[Vincent Quatermain]

Digital_Angel, on 19 August 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

They have already said that different mechs might get different energy maxes, they just did 30 across the board for initial testing.

I think it might be less confusing to have mechs with quirks that give a % reduction in energy draw, rather than changing the cap. You could have larger mechs get a higher reduction, and also have weapon specific energy draw quirks. I like having all mechs use the same point scale, though.

But, given that energy draw is not a hard cap, and heavier mechs can have more heat sinks anyway (partly due to larger engines, and also more available tonnage) -- you already have the bigger mechs able to field more weapons.

The real balance issue is not the cap, it's the relative amount of draw that each type of weapon has. Currently, PGI has hilariously created a system that increases the amount of pinpoint alpha builds, when their intent was the opposite.

[Gas Guzzler]

GULAGRODAN, on 19 August 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

Cant the engine determin the total amount of energy you can draw?

Definitely not because of what FupDup said.

If anything, it should be tied to mech size or weight class.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 19 August 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

No, because that would massively nerf mechs with low engine caps.

Only if you model it linearly.

A physics-rooted approach modeling energy required to move the mass combined with a linearly scaling modifier representing decreasing myomer efficiency by mass solves that quite handily.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

Only if you model it linearly.

A physics-rooted approach modeling energy required to move the mass combined with a linearly scaling modifier representing decreasing myomer efficiency by mass solves that quite handily.

Would your system give a Kit Fox at least equal energy to an Arctic Cheetah?

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 19 August 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Would your system give a Kit Fox at least equal energy to an Arctic Cheetah?

It can give any 'Mech enough power to do what it should be good at given its weight and speed; you just might not be doing it with all lasers.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

It can give any 'Mech enough power to do what it should be good at given its weight and speed; you just might not be doing it with all lasers.

I was expecting a yes or a no to the previous question...

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 19 August 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

I was expecting a yes or a no to the previous question...

You shouldn't, because you are asking the question under the pretense that all-energy will be strongest on the ACH.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

You shouldn't, because you are asking the question under the pretense that all-energy will be strongest on the ACH.

I'm actually ignoring the loadouts in both cases. In both cases, I'm basing their firepower off of their power limit, aka their maximum alpha strike damage cap. People generally try to avoid exceeding the maximum cap in order to avoid incurring the penalties, as seen with things like Ghost Heat.

You're implying that you would give the Arctic Cheetah a higher alpha strike limit than the Kit Fox. And that would be stupid when considering the sacrifices that the Cute Fox has to make.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 19 August 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

I'm actually ignoring the loadouts in both cases. In both cases, I'm basing their firepower off of their power limit, aka their maximum alpha strike damage cap. People generally try to avoid exceeding the maximum cap in order to avoid incurring the penalties, as seen with things like Ghost Heat.

You're implying that you would give the Arctic Cheetah a higher alpha strike limit than the Kit Fox. And that would be stupid when considering the sacrifices that the Cute Fox has to make.

I'm not. I'll humor you: the answer is "it's complicated."

If you are accelerating, yes, they are even. If you are running, no, ACH has more. That said, it doesn't actually matter that much because you can still alpha 2xLPL + 2x cERML and cool off in 7 seconds while running the KFX, 5.3 seconds while standing still, and that's with me pessimistically fudging it, because the weapons have different draws and the remainder will speed up when the less hungry ones are done filling, so realistically we're probably looking at 4.7 seconds all together. For the peaky-poke play that an energy-focused KFX will be doing and in context of everybody getting slower guns, too, that is just fine.

The SPL build on the ACH, though, can fire the six cSPL only once every 3 seconds while running, despite the increased amount of energy. While accelerating, it takes 10.4 seconds to cycle. It takes more energy to keep it going 140 kph, which is where its extra is going despite its slightly more efficient myomer.

Obviously, acceleration only lasts 3 seconds or so, so cycle is never actually that long, but there you go. It encourages you to bring SRMs + cSPL if that's the range you want to work at because you'll get more DPS. At longer ranges, it encourages lasers+ballistics. You can do heavy PPFLD, but the draw rate is so high that only the larger 'Mechs can sustain it on the move, but they still suffer a cool-down that puts them at 6 seconds or so, increasing the time you have to close up on them.