7 replies to this topic

[Arianrhod]

It seems to me that adding the energy draw system will be another major deterrent for new players in a game that is already notorious for its steep learning curve. Energy draw adds a somewhat less than simple mechanic that, not unlike the ghost heat it's intended to replace, doesn't have an obvious warning before you actually drop in your mech. And there are trial mechs exceeding the alpha cap of 30 points—ON1-K, Dire Wolf, even the trial Timber Wolf are all mechs that can no longer fire all their weapons without suffering a heat spike (when they could before). Of course if energy draw is actually implemented live, the trials will have changed by then, but you get my point.

New players aren't going to know what's going on and why they're suffereing these heat spikes for no obvious reason—except that as the yellow gauge goes down, the red one seems to go up. Basically, the new ghost heat. And adding a new indicator under the heat gauge isn't really going to tell them anything that will help them with that.

Thoughts on this? Let me know if I'm missing something here.

[Johnny Z]

With any luck at all this will make the heat system more friendly to new players.

There is obviously a lot of fine tuning to do still.

Edited by Johnny Z, 19 August 2016 - 12:22 AM.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

The learning curve is not steep in any manner. The heating system should be more complicated and hard to manage, as colder maps with the current working system almost disable heat management. Maybe colder maps should impose more penalty to overheating? Add more options to work with the heat and make the game more fun to play!

[Wintersdark]

Arianrhod, on 18 August 2016 - 11:50 PM, said:

It seems to me that adding the energy draw system will be another major deterrent for new players in a game that is already notorious for its steep learning curve. Energy draw adds a somewhat less than simple mechanic that, not unlike the ghost heat it's intended to replace, doesn't have an obvious warning before you actually drop in your mech. And there are trial mechs exceeding the alpha cap of 30 points—ON1-K, Dire Wolf, even the trial Timber Wolf are all mechs that can no longer fire all their weapons without suffering a heat spike (when they could before). Of course if energy draw is actually implemented live, the trials will have changed by then, but you get my point.

New players aren't going to know what's going on and why they're suffereing these heat spikes for no obvious reason—except that as the yellow gauge goes down, the red one seems to go up. Basically, the new ghost heat. And adding a new indicator under the heat gauge isn't really going to tell them anything that will help them with that.

Thoughts on this? Let me know if I'm missing something here.

It's not really a heat spike, and mechs are not all intended to be able to fire every weapon simultaneously without issue.

What this DOES do is avoid issues where mechs *DO* suffer heat spikes using specific combinations of weapons where other builds that do the same damage (and often with less heat) do not suffer a heat spike.

The current ghost heat is terrible for new players.

This system is far more lenient, where even if you're breaking the 30 draw barrier, you're building very little excess heat. a 40 point strike, after all, is just +5 heat.

What's more, this system actually shows it at run time, in battle, when you're generating extra heat. It's a lot easier to learn a new system when there's actually HUD elements showing it. We do need a better display of how much you're exceeding the draw limit by, but even as it stands it's way more usable than Ghost Heat.

The whole point is that you SHOULDN'T be firing all your weapons in one big wump all the time, you should be considering which to fire and when. Now, you choose whether you want a heavy alpha or higher sustained DPS, and you choose that on the battlefield, instead of in the mech lab.

[Monkey Lover]

After having to train new players how to get around ghost heat I can't think how this could be any worse.

We had a new player not long ago running around with single heat sinks because " why waste money on double heat sinks if I don't have any on the mech".

[Lostdragon]

Lunatic_Asylum, on 19 August 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

The learning curve is not steep in any manner.

Many new players woupd disagree. There are a lot of unique mechanics and advanced tactics to this game that are not very well explained in the interface. Some examples that come to mind:

Interaction of Artemis, TAG, BAP, Narc, Target Retention, and Radar Deprivation
Case with IS XLs
Missile bay doors
Crit padding
Sword and board builds
Ammo usage order
True DHS
How to spot IS XLs
Crit seeking weapons that are bad at destroying components
Override

That's 10 without even thinking too hard, I am quite sure we could come up with a lot more. Combine those with most people never having controlled motion independent of viewpoint and the game can be quite challenging to learn.

[Arianrhod]

Lostdragon, on 19 August 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

Many new players woupd disagree. There are a lot of unique mechanics and advanced tactics to this game that are not very well explained in the interface. Some examples that come to mind:

Interaction of Artemis, TAG, BAP, Narc, Target Retention, and Radar Deprivation
Case with IS XLs
Missile bay doors
Crit padding
Sword and board builds
Ammo usage order
True DHS
How to spot IS XLs
Crit seeking weapons that are bad at destroying components
Override

That's 10 without even thinking too hard, I am quite sure we could come up with a lot more. Combine those with most people never having controlled motion independent of viewpoint and the game can be quite challenging to learn.

This is how I feel. When I first started playing, I knew two things about this game: 1. It was a MechWarrior game, and I enjoyed MechWarrior 2 and MechCommander 2. 2. It had a ridiculous difficulty curve. Everyone I talked to and every source on the internet said so.

And they were right. When I first started playing I didn't get it at all. I was terrible in every possible way both with building mechs and on the battlefield. Like Lostdragon said, independent torso rotation itself was new to me. I think if I would have had to think about this too it would have been difficult for me, after all my starter chassis was the Hunchback, which is already over 30 alpha on every variant. Mainly, probably, as a new player I just WOULDN'T have thought about it and just endured the penalties, handicapping me further in the face of experienced pilots. And that's what a difficult learning curve looks like.

If energy draw makes it easier I'll happily eat my words and endorse it, at least from a mechanical standpoint (it will still bother me that there's no precedent in any other BattleTech title for energy draw and that it has no grounds in the laws of physics). So, here's hoping.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

I think honestly energy draw will ease the learning curve due to you don't have to memorized somewhat hidden rules of what weapon combinations are not allowed and instead just have to worry about two flat numbers that have a visual representation in the power draw bar (which could use some improvements).