25 replies to this topic

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Davers, on 05 September 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

But you can't point at a player made game mode with it's own rules and limits to justify balance for the game in general. If there were no rules concerning what you were allowed to bring, would the Atlas still have been a staple mech?

Oh yes, absolutely. It has been a strong brawler since it received structure quirks.

[Livaria]

I don't think it will make that much of a difference to brawling. It will change brawling, but it won't make brawling obsolete. The difference will be that instead of alpha there will be a 1-2 punch.

The process of brawling would go like this: fire group 1, (One second) pause, then fire group B. This applies to mechs with long distance firepower as well. If players want to peek and poke, they will have to do a lot of it in order to get a good damage score. If players want to avoid the extra heat tax, then they need to allow themselves to have extra exposure time.

Edited by Livaria, 05 September 2016 - 10:20 PM.

[AnTi90d]

Ghost heat penalizes the boating of long ranged lasers / ppcs.

With ED only penalizing damage in general.. and with ED giving both a smaller heat penalty to boats and allowing their heat to cool more quickly with the heat sink changes, in every iteration thusfar.. boating one weapon with long range will become the "in" thing. As long as people can alpha one burst of 5+ LLs/PPCs/ERMLs 1-3 times and still be able to back off to cool down, that's what they'll do.. until/unless they're rushed.

Ghost Heat mk1 discourages long ranged boats. Ghost Heat mk2 enables long ranged boats.

PGI knows its a serious flaw in their system, that's why they're nerfing long ranged weapons.. except the CERPPC.. IDK why TF they're doing that.. except to maybe just say they tried it and didn't like the metrics..

[Crushko]

The Hidewarrior Meta has to do with MWO beeing a WASD game, with very high (de-)accelertion compared to older Giant Robot games, where you used 1-10 for speed and didnt always switch between full speed forward and backward. Also there is a lot of cover in the MWO maps and missiles are flying a ballistic curve, so the only reliable way to avoid them is seeking cover.

Energy Draw wont change any of the above. If it leads to more heat in order to limit Alphas you have the ultimate reason to seek cover: To cool down, while you cannot shoot. So ED wont lead to more brawling. For more brawling you need small Solaris type arenas with respawns.

Edited by Crushko, 06 September 2016 - 09:23 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

L3mming2, on 04 September 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

more peek and poke?, in what way douse having to split up your alpha (insdead of poking out slamming down an 58 - 68 damage laser alpha and puling back) in 2 fire groops 1.5 s apart promote peek and poke???

the hole idea of poking is to poke out put as much damage down range in to your enemy as u can and retreat before u take damage back (ore atleast take only a fraction back of what you deal) the fact that ED forces you to ore only do pokes of 30 ore stand out in the open for 1.5s + time it takes for the second groop makes the poking game play stile so much less effective...

More peak and poke in QP because people will build their mechs to the point they can alpha once, with the new penalty, and not shut down, so they can withdraw behind a hill to cool down.

The obvious counter to this is a dps build that pushes hard on these types of build, so while they will fail in organised play, where people will note and adapt and then punish these kind of builds, by not allowing them to cool down, in solo QP and in small random group play this kind of interaction rarely happens, so the mech will get plenty of time to cool down and be ready to alpha once more.

So poke and hide will happen more, the small groups will start yelling about organised play being OP, the game will degenerate into the same kind of game there was when pop tarts meta'd only this time there will be no jump jets to nerf.

I started off feeling so positive about ED, but it was quickly apparent its going to be far worse a system for the average player.

[Khobai]

Quote

The obvious counter to this is a dps build that pushes hard on these types of build

except dps builds were kicked in the nuts by the AC5 and module cooldown nerfs.

so dps builds arnt going to counter anything.

game is just going to be hello kitty peek and poke.

Quote

The Hidewarrior Meta has to do with MWO beeing a WASD game

not really. it mostly has to do with the fact the game doesnt have respawns. everyone is so petrified of dying that they play in a way that facilitates the least amount of personal risk. which is deathballing and poking. if the game had respawns then players wouldnt be utterly paralyzed by the fear of permadeath which is the whole problem. Players would be much more willing to take risks and fight out in the open.

It also has to do with the terrible scoring system being based around how much damage you do. So no one wants to be the guy that goes first and takes all the hits and dies so their team can push the enemy team. the whole scoring system is all about personal reward rather than working as a team. A lot of the time you see people even throwing their own teammates under the bus just to do a few extra points of damage. the scoring system in MWO is really bad and encourages that kindve behavior.

MWLL had the right idea with their ticket based respawn gamemode. Their scoring system was much better too.

Edited by Khobai, 07 September 2016 - 02:48 PM.