36 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

i think Energy Draw is turning out better than we anticipated,
its not perfect but its a good base for whats to come,



but what i think we need is a Mobility Draw system,
moving should cost Energy as should using your JJ,


1) Movement,
the faster you go the more Energy it should take to Make you move,
but for the sake of simplicity lets look at it like this,
(Speed / 10) -5) = Movement Draw)
-
so a SCR going 97 would have a constant draw of 4.7 wail at full speed,
this means slower mechs(UM, ADR, KFX, PNT) mechs that move slower,
will have higher alpha limits not much but just enough to perhaps matter,
(give us a reason for taking a smaller Engine)


2) JumpJets,
we all want better JumpJets, but we dont want OP Poptarting,
so what if we give JumpJets a Draw when in use then Double their Thrust?
in this case the Penalty would be a Static (-5Energy) when in the air,
this would also go with the x2Thrust Buff on most JumpJets(not Ms),
(L=x2Thrust)(M=x1.5Thrust)(H=x2Thrust)(A=x2Thrust)
-
in this case JumpJeting(Flying Up) would cost -5Contant Energy,
where as Falling from a Jump, Gyro-Stabilization would cost again -5Energy,
(give us a reason to take JumpJets, not HoverJets)



both of these Above Ideas are to give energy Draw a more Reactor Energy Feel,
as i think most of us would like more Immersion with this System(i know i would),
(also Note, the Penalties here are taken from and reduce your Max energy)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- rework

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 22 August 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Shall we also do something equally ridiculous like tie twist speed to engine rating? Oh, wait...

To tie movement to this and not screw over lights that already aren't that good would require a layer of complexity and nuance that I don't see happening. JJ already have their own energy draw, it is that bar to the left of your minimap, and they are already not very good.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I feel Armored Core calling...

En ratings for engines... Jumping mechanics and energy weapons that draw from En, as EN recovers over time as a function of the reactor you install... ammo-based weapons not consuming En...

[Andi Nagasia]

Lostdragon, on 19 August 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

Shall we also do something equally ridiculous like tie twist speed to engine rating? Oh, wait...

To tie movement to this and not screw over lights that already aren't that good would require a layer of complexity and nuance that I don't see happening. JJ already have their own energy draw, it is that bar to the left of your minimap, and they are already not very good.

first i suggested making the Movement draw based on Speed,
this means slower lights will have a higher alpha at full speed than faster lights,
this also has the same effect with Slower mediums Heavies and Assaults,

i also suggested that the Thrust of JJ be increased to double in most cases to account for JJ Draw,
this way we can have better JJ without people screaming about pop tarts,

[Lostdragon]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 August 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

first i suggested making the Movement draw based on Speed,
this means slower lights will have a higher alpha at full speed than faster lights,
this also has the same effect with Slower mediums Heavies and Assaults,

i also suggested that the Thrust of JJ be increased to double in most cases to account for JJ Draw,
this way we can have better JJ without people screaming about pop tarts,

That still screws over fast lights though, which is the point. The JJ thrust needs to be doubled on heavy and assault JJ without tying it to energy just to make it worth taking them. I would be fine with shilutting down weapons while in the air or reticle shake until you land but I don't like the idea of JJ having two gauges to watch anymore than I like having two heat guages for weapons. There are simpler ways to do it.

[Y E O N N E]

I've actually been working on this as part of a more comprehensive, physics-based energy management mechanic. Stay tuned!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I've actually been working on this as part of a more comprehensive, physics-based energy management mechanic. Stay tuned!

You stop that.

[Mystere]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

we all want better JJ,

Agreed.

Andi Nagasia, on 19 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

but we dont want Poptarting,

My ShadowCat says "Boo!"

Andi Nagasia, on 19 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?

Poptarting should be a legitimate tactic.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 19 August 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Poptarting should be a legitimate tactic.

It is at least for the HBK-IIC-A. Nothing else really has the jumps to pull it off sadly.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

You stop that.

Nevar!

That said, my system assumes that the 'Mech always prioritizes power for movement, so instead of running slower when your guns are drawing power, your guns draw at a lower rate. This also helps Mechs with low hardpoints count, since everything has a radically faster cooldown.

[FupDup]

While I like the part about slow lights having an advantage over fasties, we have to consider that fast lights still would be penalized compared to every other weight class. All light gundams have a hard time as it is.

The only way I think it could work is to have it be on a per-class (or even per-tonnage) basis rather than global speed. At that point, though, it's starting to have too many variables to balance.

Edited by FupDup, 19 August 2016 - 09:37 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Lostdragon, on 19 August 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

That still screws over fast lights though, which is the point. The JJ thrust needs to be doubled on heavy and assault JJ without tying it to energy just to make it worth taking them. I would be fine with shilutting down weapons while in the air or reticle shake until you land but I don't like the idea of JJ having two gauges to watch anymore than I like having two heat guages for weapons. There are simpler ways to do it.

yes Fast Lights are Targeted, but also Fast Mediums, Heavies and Assaults,
this would give a reason to Pilot a slower mech as you know you would have a higher Alpha,

Mystere, on 19 August 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Poptarting should be a legitimate tactic.

Agreed, this wouldnt remove Poptaring, but make those who are ganna Pop Alpha hide for 30seconds to cool off,

FupDup, on 19 August 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

While I like the part about slow lights having an advantage over fasties, we have to consider that fast lights still would be penalized compared to every other weight class. All light gundams have a hard time as it is.

The only way I think it could work is to have it be on a per-class (or even per-tonnage) basis rather than global speed. At that point, though, it's starting to have too many variables to balance.

im trying FupDup, im trying,

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

Nevar!

That said, my system assumes that the 'Mech always prioritizes power for movement, so instead of running slower when your guns are drawing power, your guns draw at a lower rate. This also helps Mechs with low hardpoints count, since everything has a radically faster cooldown.

Low hardpoint counts really aren't a problem for every mech, it is a very situational issue. Consider how many guns the current meta mechs mount after all.

I don't know if I like movement being tied to power draw since that tends to encourage more static engagements which are really bad for the game imo, as silly as NASCAR can be sometimes, it is better than the opposite.

[PJohann]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Mobility Draw system,

https://youtu.be/umDr0mPuyQc

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 August 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

Low hardpoint counts really aren't a problem for every mech, it is a very situational issue. Consider how many guns the current meta mechs mount after all.

I don't know if I like movement being tied to power draw since that tends to encourage more static engagements which are really bad for the game imo, as silly as NASCAR can be sometimes, it is better than the opposite.

Only the Mechs with egregiously low counts benefit, because the way I set it up is to make going below the line the normal mode of operation. So a Spider 5V with two MedLas might have an insane 1.5 seconds to recharge them, but most Mechs will be between 4 and 7 seconds after firing an energy intense alpha while moving.

You get a round the static part by having ballistics (except goose) and missiles not draw at all, so a mix build with those weapons and a few lasers can run and gun quite well. Combine with shorter beam durations and / or slower projectiles (even our AC/5 are at hyper - velocity right now) and I don't see it being a big issue.

Anyway, I'll have a more complete post later. It is a holistic, comprehensive overhaul, not a band-aid solution.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

Only the Mechs with egregiously low counts benefit, because the way I set it up is to make going below the line the normal mode of operation. So a Spider 5V with two MedLas might have an insane 1.5 seconds to recharge them, but most Mechs will be between 4 and 7 seconds after firing an energy intense alpha while moving.

You get a round the static part by having ballistics (except goose) and missiles not draw at all, so a mix build with those weapons and a few lasers can run and gun quite well. Combine with shorter beam durations and / or slower projectiles (even our AC/5 are at hyper - velocity right now) and I don't see it being a big issue.

Anyway, I'll have a more complete post later. It is a holistic, comprehensive overhaul, not a band-aid solution.

I still remain skeptical, but I'll way to see the full post before commenting further.

[Andi Nagasia]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

I've actually been working on this as part of a more comprehensive, physics-based energy management mechanic. Stay tuned!

no Stealing, topic Yeonne!!!

but ya i think some form of movement draw could add a great deal of Immersion,

[Johnny Z]

Sounds good. If it is or not I don't know.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Make it so walking take x energy and running takes y energy just like they generate heat, so that way lights don't get gimped due to high velocity. JJ's should take a lot of energy to use, couple that with energy draw and removing JJ nerfs but keeping in the heavy shake and energy draw would make poptarting rare but JJ's actually useful on mechs beyond 75 tons with the rare exception of the Victor.

[Andi Nagasia]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 19 August 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

Make it so walking take x energy and running takes y energy just like they generate heat, so that way lights don't get gimped due to high velocity. JJ's should take a lot of energy to use, couple that with energy draw and removing JJ nerfs but keeping in the heavy shake and energy draw would make poptarting rare but JJ's actually useful on mechs beyond 75 tons with the rare exception of the Victor.

thats why its based on your current Speed,

lets say your in a light, and you speed up and slow down fast,
that means you can run pause fire then continue running again,
this way mobility(accel/Decel) become just as important not just speed,


i think this would help MWO start feeling more like a Sim,
as those actions would take energy and people would have to learn how to Drive their mechs,
a skil more Easy to learn(for new players), hard to master(for Veteran Players),