14 replies to this topic

[orcrist86]

I played a few matches and have the following thoughts.


UI: the draw and heat meters are very nice and heat is even more prominent. I really like it.

Energy Draw:

The current max draw of 30 seems pretty decent, though it primarily affects assaults and heavies. I would like to see each class have different level of ED to keep the mechanic relevant at all classes. My thoughts on that are:

Lights: 20-25
Med/ Heavy:25-30
Assaults: 30-35

ED rates: scattershot systems are in a good place, though I think SRMS might do with either a higher penalty or a slightly higher ED rate.

ED Penalty: The large and small laser types need a stiffer penalty for breaking the ED limit

Under this system PPCs probably need a longer cooldown to make them similar to gauss in use

Ballistics seem to be okay though a scaling ED penalty as you go up the damage class would be nice.

I think this a promising system, though renaming it something lore friendly would make me happier (reactor load). I look forward to the next iteration and will play some more this weekend to see what else I can suss out.

[Funkin Disher]

Agreed, also looking forward to future iterations (slower energy bar regeneration, more heat for exceeding draw)

Firing Computer Load?

[orcrist86]

i think going to 15 would be ideal right now

[Znail]

I am confused why people want to reduce the energy regen rate. This will only encourage using high alpha strikes as it will discourage using the alternative, wich is to let the energy regenrate in between firing your weapon groups. With reduced energy regen so may you as well just do the full alpha strike and then wait for energy and heat to regenerate. I would much prefeer in increased energy regen rate instead to make it better to spread out your fire over time rather then alpha striking.

[Tiantara]

- You can easy avoid PPC shot by moving aside. Not from gauss. So increasing cooldown of PPC useless.

[kapusta11]

Will you play a light mech with 20 energy cap and get your *** handed to you by assaults and heavies with 30-35 energy?

Edited by kapusta11, 20 August 2016 - 03:29 AM.

[Tiantara]

kapusta11, on 20 August 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

Will you play a light mech with 20 energy cap and get your *** handed to you by assaults and heavies with 30-35 energy?

- Well... most of light mech have alpha 20-25... some of models have only 15 alpha (20t). With full firepower = 55dmg - you can easy break it into 2 groups 25 + 25, 20+20+20

[kapusta11]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

- Well... most of light mech have alpha 20-25... some of models have only 15 alpha (20t). With full firepower = 55dmg - you can easy break it into 2 groups 25 + 25, 20+20+20

So will you play a mech that has armor and (increased) firepower disadvantage with only speed to compensate? I mean playing as often as other classes.

Edited by kapusta11, 20 August 2016 - 03:42 AM.

[Serpentbane]

Piloting assaults in public ques is allways the same. Slowest one is left alone, and then jumped by lights and faster meds etc. The current game and this solution does not change the fact that lights are in average verry powefull, and easely goes up against assaults, espessially given any adventage like terrain or numbers. With rather few exeptions, assaults are unable to move fast enough to keep continious fire on the light, and with most weapon selections the assaults are more likely to over heat than taking down the light. Given equal skill levels.

This makes it rather frustrating playing assaults, as your team do not play as a team, just solo together with others. Racing a potential kill (like a left alone assault) is more important than supporting slow assaults.

Assaults are slow, but they are weapons platforms. As thus they should be more effective at fireing weapons than light mechs, that essentially are scouts, not assault hunters. Lighter mechs should not feel very confident taking on an assault head on.

And changing this would not make the game unfair. Because every mech have their own roles that could be explored further, and they have other advantages. Larger maps and more objectives and dynamic objectives would also give faster but less powerfull mechs other means to score points and win mathces.

[Tiantara]

kapusta11, on 20 August 2016 - 03:41 AM, said:

So will you play a mech that has armor and (increased) firepower disadvantage with only speed to compensate? I mean playing as often as other classes.

- I play mostly assaults\heavy. Because i love slow move and possibility to snipe\brawl as well. But also I pilot light\medium. With new system medium got chance to not overheat and be a support mech, protectors of assault. Light with overpowered firepower (like adder-A and so on), just slit alpha in two groups. Not big deal. Anyway, now they have a little less heat and lover chance to overheat. The main power of light - speed and agility. Running fast around - you can without any heat-penalty rip one component after another from slow target. And that is cool. With Ghost Heat - many of light got overheat easier. Just try split fire on any locust or alpha on chetah.
With new system also I seem more live in mediums - which have no speed, no armor and with all this less weapon and greater heat penalty. Now they can be really annoying for assaults and heavy pilots.

Serpentbane, on 20 August 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

Assaults are slow, but they are weapons platforms. As thus they should be more effective at fireing weapons than light mechs, that essentially are scouts, not assault hunters. Lighter mechs should not feel very confident taking on an assault head on.

- We still have no proper rewards for scouting and data gathering. Not in game score not in XP. Until all mech would rewarded only by DMG, we'll see overpowered light with light who have no weapon at all.

[kapusta11]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

- I play mostly assaults\heavy.

I figured as much.

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

Because i love slow move and possibility to snipe\brawl as well. But also I pilot light\medium. With new system medium got chance to not overheat and be a support mech, protectors of assault. Light with overpowered firepower (like adder-A and so on), just slit alpha in two groups. Not big deal. Anyway, now they have a little less heat and lover chance to overheat. The main power of light - speed and agility. Running fast around - you can without any heat-penalty rip one component after another from slow target. And that is cool. With Ghost Heat - many of light got overheat easier. Just try split fire on any locust or alpha on chetah.
With new system also I seem more live in mediums - which have no speed, no armor and with all this less weapon and greater heat penalty. Now they can be really annoying for assaults and heavy pilots.

OP Adder? Lights suffering from GH? What game are you plaing?

[Tiantara]

kapusta11, on 20 August 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

I figured as much.

OP Adder? Lights suffering from GH? What game are you plaing?

- Not an "OP", I mean max possible firepower which you can boat on mech. Adder was as stock example of possible firepower (which all think as alpha). My advice - calculate max possible firepower based on heat management = 1. For each mech weight, that number cut in half and take it as Energy pool. So, if light mech can carry max 53 firepower that for all light mech Energy pool = 20-25.

Yes you can say - Kodiak have max firepower in stock = 100. Yes. But not in condition of heat management =1. Heat management with firepower 100 = less than 1. To make it exact 1 = you get firepower about 68 - so 30-35 points more than enough.

Edited by Tiantara, 20 August 2016 - 04:35 AM.

[orcrist86]

So lets talk about a few things:

The recharge rate - ideally this is part of the penalty for huge alphas, a soft cost for overloading the reactor, albeit one without a heat penalty. In the case of big alphas almost no weapon system is going to be ready to fire again withing the 1.5 seconds it takes to charge at a rate of 20. PPC has a 3 second CD and gauss 5+. So the RR does nothing to stop those, or even 2xAC20. We have already seen 6xLPL and LL build staggered so as not to trigger much heat penalty. This fails the test of the system as it is a worse outcome that Ghost Heat. So now you need to build a better soft cost. Reducing the RR means that you put pressure on the pilot to wait longer before activating his next 3 LPL, or 3 PPC purst, it also increases the chance that the pilot will suffer dire consequences for trying to cheat the system. Note that this cheating is only capable by heavy and assault mechs, who I'm advocating get a slight reactor load capacity increase.

Varied Reactor Capacity- Varied capacity keeps the mechanic present at all levels of play and with all mechs, though with some weights we are talking a very limited amount. You don't see many light mechs capable of the burst damage necessary to beat a 20-25 energy cap. The few that can are packing CERPPC or boating a ton of weapons. In either case both are currently subject to ghost heat or suffer from heat issues. Limiting sniper lights to a more mobile role isn't killing them, and forcing them to cycle their weaponry more often isn't terrible either and is more in line with the scouting, harassing and stalking mentality you normally associate with the their weight class. There are of course a few chassis that bork this, the Jenner and Jenner2c have models that F this up, but they get complained to high hell about anyways, so its an indirect nerf to boating, the same as it is for assaults. Thematically and purpose-wise this is consistent with this systems purpose and not nearly as arbitrary and capricious as ghost heat.

Edited by orcrist86, 20 August 2016 - 05:57 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Responding here cuz the title is appropriate, and it seems silly to keep starting a new thread just to add another 2 cents of feedback.

Having now tested several high alpha builds, the only ones that seem "punished" by energy draw are LRM and SRM boats. If I chain fire LRMS no problem, but if as often happens in the regular game you have multiple opponents running AMS and you want to "punch through" by firing all your lrms at once, then energy draw is a problem. Hurting what is already the worst weapons system in the game is bad. So that needs a fix. Same with my Catapult A1 splat-cat build. Was hardly viable before, energy draw will make it even more of a problem.

Yes, in both cases you can just stagger your fire. And while that works just fine with the energy and ballistics builds I have been playing with (other than spl boats...they are hurt by this too) in the case of SRMs and LRMs it is more of a draw back as they are often in "all or nothing" situations it seems to me.

[orcrist86]

Bud Crue, on 20 August 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

Responding here cuz the title is appropriate, and it seems silly to keep starting a new thread just to add another 2 cents of feedback.

Having now tested several high alpha builds, the only ones that seem "punished" by energy draw are LRM and SRM boats. If I chain fire LRMS no problem, but if as often happens in the regular game you have multiple opponents running AMS and you want to "punch through" by firing all your lrms at once, then energy draw is a problem. Hurting what is already the worst weapons system in the game is bad. So that needs a fix. Same with my Catapult A1 splat-cat build. Was hardly viable before, energy draw will make it even more of a problem.

Yes, in both cases you can just stagger your fire. And while that works just fine with the energy and ballistics builds I have been playing with (other than spl boats...they are hurt by this too) in the case of SRMs and LRMs it is more of a draw back as they are often in "all or nothing" situations it seems to me.

I think you are right on lrms, they need to be changed to .5