17 replies to this topic

[Blitxll]

title says it all.

[GLaDOSauR]

I'm pretty sure that you can attack an empty hex with any weapon. That's how you'd light fires with flamers and cause other shenanigans of the like.

Edited by GLaDOSauR, 26 April 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Davers]

Yes, you could attack a hex, but I don't think you could actually hit units in the hex that way.

[Blitxll]

Davers, on 26 April 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Yes, you could attack a hex, but I don't think you could actually hit units in the hex that way.

so what was the purpose of attacking the hex? beyond starting fires.

Edited by Blitxll, 26 April 2016 - 03:57 PM.

[GLaDOSauR]

Blitxll, on 26 April 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

so what was the purpose of attacking the hex? beyond starting fires.

Clearing trees, destroying buildings. uhhh.....vaporizing local wild-life.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

If you had LoS yes. For indirect fire you needed a spotter.

Blitxll, on 26 April 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

so what was the purpose of attacking the hex? beyond starting fires.

Destroying cover to improve your to hit. Also lighting them on fire toasts infantry.

[Blitxll]

so the only actual indirect fire weapons were artillery. Well that's to bad.

Thanks for the replies

[Karl Marlow]

Blitxll, on 26 April 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

title says it all.

Yes. You wouldn't hit anything though. Even with a spotter IDF was rarely worth the trouble. It's a really something that annoys me about mwo. Indirect fire wlis an obscure rarely used rule in tabletop but here it is the primary and only way to fire long range missiles.

[Blitxll]

ThomasMarik, on 26 April 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes. You wouldn't hit anything though. Even with a spotter IDF was rarely worth the trouble. It's a really something that annoys me about mwo. Indirect fire wlis an obscure rarely used rule in tabletop but here it is the primary and only way to fire long range missiles.

I was kind of thinking that you could manually fire the LRM's at a location on the minimap. This would make LRM's a lot more useful if you could do it with accuracy, that way that aren't just suppressing fire but could also be used to pound a defensive position. It seems in table top the hexs had a lot of room in them.

[SilentScreamer]

Blitxll, on 26 April 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

I was kind of thinking that you could manually fire the LRM's at a location on the minimap. This would make LRM's a lot more useful if you could do it with accuracy, that way that aren't just suppressing fire but could also be used to pound a defensive position. It seems in table top the hexs had a lot of room in them.

A hex in tabletop was 30 meters (90 feet) across. So yes, even though tabletop minis took up the entire hex, there would be room for multiple mech-sized objects in a real-life space that size.

Re-implementing LRMs as a "artillery weapon" for MWO would be a mistake in my opinion. The number of LRM volleys you would have to throw at a minimap target in order to hit anything would be insane. If you spread LRM fire wider to "hit" something in the minimap, you spread and difuse the damage. I do not think there would be a balance point where any LRM launcher would be worth equiping.

There is a weapon system that works the way you are thinking - the Arrow Missile System. http://www.sarna.net...ow_IV_Artillery
Think of it as a very large rocket fired into the middle of the enemy formation. All mechs in a radius are dealt damage.


**edit - in response to your question if we will see this in-game**
There has been debate as to include or leave out this weapon from MWO since beta days. http://mwomercs.com/...stem-be-in-mwo/

Edited by SilentScreamer, 26 April 2016 - 05:56 PM.

[Blitxll]

wow this is awesome I totally forgot about the arrow. What do you think the chances of this being implemented in MWO. I can see this being very useful.

P.s. thanks for the link.

Edited by Blitxll, 26 April 2016 - 06:10 PM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference the Arrow weapon system.

- Last issue that the Dev.'s were having with this weapon was the crit. space required to mount it.
- It required splitting and sharing the torso and arm crit. slots to be able to mount it. And not something they (PGI) had managed to work correctly.

It could be an excellent weapon system for long range 'indirect' use, but still requiring a unit with TAG for accurate 'Mech attacks. (the weapon attacks the spot on the ground, not the unit.) But the system should have advanced zoom optics incorporated into it's systems if the launching 'Mech can see the target location.
- in 'that other game', MWLL, it could reach out to 3000mtrs for a ground strike. (directly observed target location.) But gave away your launch position with a long black exhaust smoke trail, and advanced warning to the target that an 'Arrow Missile" was inbound. [you really needed to 'keep an eye on the missile' to know if it was targeted at you or somewhere else.]
- Good times with the Catapult, as you were normally way out of the enemies reach to return fire. And could provide 'suppressive/harassing fire' as your company advanced.

But you would also need large maps for that system to see any functional use, and with limited ammo, a challenge to operate effectively. Ammo resupply has never been an issue for this game, yet. Build your 'Mech correctly, balance the load-out, not really a problem. But carry a limited ammo primary weapon into battle, this could be a big deal if you don't have a fall back or back up system.
- Could the Arrow pod be reloaded? Is there an asset that could be introduced to assist in this function?
- Probably all the same questions PGI has beat around about this weapon system. Would it be a viable weapon for this game? Is it's need for a 2nd 'Mech with TAG and absolute requirement? Does PGI need to look at some form of ammo replenishment carrier or structure, and is there enough game time to complete a battlefield resupply? (considering that the Long Tom does have a dedicated resupply carrier with it when deployed. [from lore])

Lots to think about, both for a new weapon and would it work in this game.

Aim True and Run Cool,
9erRed

[crashlogic]

ThomasMarik, on 26 April 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes. You wouldn't hit anything though. Even with a spotter IDF was rarely worth the trouble. It's a really something that annoys me about mwo. Indirect fire wlis an obscure rarely used rule in tabletop but here it is the primary and only way to fire long range missiles.

Yes but in tt lrms were fire and forget - you got your lock and they tracked. In MWO they get stupid when you don't keep your lock. IN TT LRMS have the same velocity as every other weapon. And Indirect fire became a primary use of lrms when you added the IS targeting network.

[Vanguard319]

Blitxll, on 26 April 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

so what was the purpose of attacking the hex? beyond starting fires.

Well, if you are carrying specialized LRM ammo, shooting the hex places effects that may tactically help you, or hinder your opponent. For example, Thunder LRMs leave minefields with damage equivalent to the size of the launcher, and LRMs with smoke warheads do no damage, but they deploy smoke screens that can provide cover for several turns, again, the size and thickness of the smokescreen are determined by the size of the launcher.

[Barkem Squirrel]

ThomasMarik, on 26 April 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yes. You wouldn't hit anything though. Even with a spotter IDF was rarely worth the trouble. It's a really something that annoys me about mwo. Indirect fire wlis an obscure rarely used rule in tabletop but here it is the primary and only way to fire long range missiles.

We have almost almost c3 computers in the mechs. Way beyond what should be there.


ONe thing that I would love is having some FASCAM ammo just to prep one area with 1/2 to 1 ton of ammo.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 01 August 2016 - 06:17 PM.

[DeamoBD]

not super sure in TT, on megamek you can spot a target and indirect fire at it. I've only done it a few time and have not had them actually hit the mech i was going for. but that could just be a megamek thing.

[RAM]

Barkem Squirrel, on 01 August 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

We have almost almost c3 computers in the mechs. Way beyond what should be there.

False. Not even close.


RAM
ELH

[Dar1ng One]

You can under certain conditions.

In advanced Battletech : Total warfare rules if your team had previously scouted a hex you could fire Thunder LRM's to plant as a minefield to damage enemy mechs/vehicles legs/tracks moving through said hex.

Hope that sort of helps.

Mmmmmmmmm....yes

Hex-cellent!