Hello everyone! Seeing the PTS has already started with that feature, I'd like for people who tested this mechanic to tell their experiences with different loadouts and results.
How does the system work for you? How does it work on lasers, missiles and autocannons? How high is the heat penalty when the energy runs out? tell all about it! and if you have a video, even better.
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Energy Draw Feedback List
Started by Countess, Aug 18 2016 02:38 PM
7 replies to this topic
#2
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- The Icon
- 63 posts
Member
Posted 18 August 2016 - 05:18 PM
Main initial impression: Love the UI. Simply having another gauge that means something already makes the game feel more robot combat sim like, which is what I love about the MechWarrior series. I like the sci-fi realism aspects of it.(*) Sim doesn't mean slow, it just means believable/plausible. Energy draw makes some kind of physical sense rather than feeling like an arcade game mechanic. Having to stagger fire a bit more corresponds well to the books. So that's neat.
(Off topic impossible wish: While we're at it, couldn't we scale jump jet thrust down to 1/3, while also reducing gravity to the correct 1g, rather than 3g? Jump height would be the same but mechs wouldn't drop out of the sky like tiny bugs.)
(*) Ignoring for a moment the implausibility of 100t bipedal vehicles.
(Off topic impossible wish: While we're at it, couldn't we scale jump jet thrust down to 1/3, while also reducing gravity to the correct 1g, rather than 3g? Jump height would be the same but mechs wouldn't drop out of the sky like tiny bugs.)
(*) Ignoring for a moment the implausibility of 100t bipedal vehicles.
#3
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- Philanthropist
- 1,036 posts
Member
Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:03 PM
4EVR, on 18 August 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:
Main initial impression: Love the UI. Simply having another gauge that means something already makes the game feel more robot combat sim like, which is what I love about the MechWarrior series. I like the sci-fi realism aspects of it.(*) Sim doesn't mean slow, it just means believable/plausible. Energy draw makes some kind of physical sense rather than feeling like an arcade game mechanic. Having to stagger fire a bit more corresponds well to the books. So that's neat.
(Off topic impossible wish: While we're at it, couldn't we scale jump jet thrust down to 1/3, while also reducing gravity to the correct 1g, rather than 3g? Jump height would be the same but mechs wouldn't drop out of the sky like tiny bugs.)
(*) Ignoring for a moment the implausibility of 100t bipedal vehicles.
(Off topic impossible wish: While we're at it, couldn't we scale jump jet thrust down to 1/3, while also reducing gravity to the correct 1g, rather than 3g? Jump height would be the same but mechs wouldn't drop out of the sky like tiny bugs.)
(*) Ignoring for a moment the implausibility of 100t bipedal vehicles.
They say that that was the case somewhere long ago and '3.3gs were felt more natural' (after CS or what?).
#4
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- The Machete
- 86 posts
Member
Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:17 PM
The system is a good step to addressing some of the problems of the TTK. The cooldown for all weapons increased was needed. However the alpha striking is still too high and or the recharge time for the alpha striking needs to be longer.
Players can run two 30 point weapon sets and use them within 1.5 seconds to deal 60 alphas. Such as running 6 LL, fire 3 LL wait until energy recharges in about 1.5 seconds and fire again. PPC & Gauss combos were everywhere especially in 4v4 public matches. They are extremely powerful because the delay between alpha strikes is still fast enough to get 2 or 3 alpha strikes on your opponents before they close the distance with little negatives. When i did play a few 8v8+ matches in private lobby the brawls seemed to take longer so maybe TTK and i think it was a combination of the energy mechanic and cooldowns. However getting into the brawls is difficult depending on the map, we were also uncoordinated so with coordinated groups i wouldn't actually imagine TTK would change that much. I believe this hurt AC dakka builds the most as their sustained DPS was high enough where they could only turn it on for a few seconds before the heat buildup was too much. You could still hurt enemy mechs but it would only last for a little bit longer.
IMO some recommendations.
Decreasing the Energy Draw Limit would lower the amount of heavy weapons being fired at one time (Large Lasers, Large AC, Gauss, etc) but would still allow mechs that have a lot of energy hard points to take advantage of shooting multiple sets of medium lasers.
Decreasing the Energy Recharge would make it a longer wait time before firing larger alpha strikes before being "free" to strike again but would also moderately hurt boating medium lasers as you wouldn't be able to regenerate enough to continue to fire small groupings of lasers.
I was hoping to see more diversity in the loadouts but it ended up being snipers and boating large weapons. I think minus the return to gauss ppc sniping it is better than the live system.
Players can run two 30 point weapon sets and use them within 1.5 seconds to deal 60 alphas. Such as running 6 LL, fire 3 LL wait until energy recharges in about 1.5 seconds and fire again. PPC & Gauss combos were everywhere especially in 4v4 public matches. They are extremely powerful because the delay between alpha strikes is still fast enough to get 2 or 3 alpha strikes on your opponents before they close the distance with little negatives. When i did play a few 8v8+ matches in private lobby the brawls seemed to take longer so maybe TTK and i think it was a combination of the energy mechanic and cooldowns. However getting into the brawls is difficult depending on the map, we were also uncoordinated so with coordinated groups i wouldn't actually imagine TTK would change that much. I believe this hurt AC dakka builds the most as their sustained DPS was high enough where they could only turn it on for a few seconds before the heat buildup was too much. You could still hurt enemy mechs but it would only last for a little bit longer.
IMO some recommendations.
Decreasing the Energy Draw Limit would lower the amount of heavy weapons being fired at one time (Large Lasers, Large AC, Gauss, etc) but would still allow mechs that have a lot of energy hard points to take advantage of shooting multiple sets of medium lasers.
Decreasing the Energy Recharge would make it a longer wait time before firing larger alpha strikes before being "free" to strike again but would also moderately hurt boating medium lasers as you wouldn't be able to regenerate enough to continue to fire small groupings of lasers.
I was hoping to see more diversity in the loadouts but it ended up being snipers and boating large weapons. I think minus the return to gauss ppc sniping it is better than the live system.
#5
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- Knight Errant
- 9,942 posts
Member
- LocationDueling on Solaris
Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:20 PM
Feedback: Its good. Going to let the pros work out the details and complain if there is anything to complain about.
#6
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- The Privateer
- 2,688 posts
Member
Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:07 PM
First impressions only at this point:
I have used my two 'go to" Hellbringers so far. One is UAC20/4 ERML. The other is 2 x UAC5/4 ERML. Both of them performed much the same as they do on the live server. I did notice the increased cooldown for the weapons. That was especially noticeable when I forgot to equip cooldown modules on the UAC5 build. I only over heated the UAC20 build when I was involved in a close proximity brawl with a Timber Wolf. I fired an Alpha, then fired my 4 ERML followed by a second Alpha. That shut me down but it also killed the TW. Based on this, if anything I think that the penalties might be a bit lenient but I need to do a lot more testing and I need to run some builds that actually boat weapons for big Alpha strikes to see how they perform now.
My first impression is this is better than what we currently have. The additional UI elements help you manage your weapons. It is hard to say how it will affect TTK because you cannot compare 4 v 4 to 12 v 12. The only thing that may contribute to increased TTK is a few less full on Alphas during a given time period because of longer cool down.
More later after more time with the new system and more builds.
ADDED: Tried my Laser vomit Hellbringer 2 x cLPL/4 x cERML. I can Alpha with it once and hit 78% heat on Terra Therma then fire the 4 ERML when they come off cooldown without shutting down. That actually seems about the same as when I tested it after building it on the live client. It may even be slightly better. The biggest concern is the new, slower rate of cooldown which means I have to be more careful and take a bit more time to cooldown once I have pushed the heat scale too high.
Another UPDATE: Today I stayed out of matches and used Testing Grounds to test some builds. I am now of the opinion that both SRMs and LRMs need a lower Energy modifier number. Even at .75 it is too high for the weapons to be effective IMO. I believe that a modifier of .50 or .66 should be tested. Missiles normally have to be fired in mass to be effective and (overcome AMS enough to) do significant damage. Presently they run into excessive heat when trying to put enough of them in the air. This is coming from someone that does not normally use missiles.
The Energy Draw bar is replenished too fast. The penalty for exceeding the energy limit is not punitive enough. 1 point of heat for each point of draw over the maximum should be tested.
A proper heat scale with impacts on movement speed, agility, rate of fire and sensors degradation should be added. These things would effect the Mech during high heat prior to shutdown or suicide.
Tomorrow, I will do my own testing of Gauss, ballistics and PPCs on some Kodiaks to see if my impression of them matches what I have been reading in this forum.
I have used my two 'go to" Hellbringers so far. One is UAC20/4 ERML. The other is 2 x UAC5/4 ERML. Both of them performed much the same as they do on the live server. I did notice the increased cooldown for the weapons. That was especially noticeable when I forgot to equip cooldown modules on the UAC5 build. I only over heated the UAC20 build when I was involved in a close proximity brawl with a Timber Wolf. I fired an Alpha, then fired my 4 ERML followed by a second Alpha. That shut me down but it also killed the TW. Based on this, if anything I think that the penalties might be a bit lenient but I need to do a lot more testing and I need to run some builds that actually boat weapons for big Alpha strikes to see how they perform now.
My first impression is this is better than what we currently have. The additional UI elements help you manage your weapons. It is hard to say how it will affect TTK because you cannot compare 4 v 4 to 12 v 12. The only thing that may contribute to increased TTK is a few less full on Alphas during a given time period because of longer cool down.
More later after more time with the new system and more builds.
ADDED: Tried my Laser vomit Hellbringer 2 x cLPL/4 x cERML. I can Alpha with it once and hit 78% heat on Terra Therma then fire the 4 ERML when they come off cooldown without shutting down. That actually seems about the same as when I tested it after building it on the live client. It may even be slightly better. The biggest concern is the new, slower rate of cooldown which means I have to be more careful and take a bit more time to cooldown once I have pushed the heat scale too high.
Another UPDATE: Today I stayed out of matches and used Testing Grounds to test some builds. I am now of the opinion that both SRMs and LRMs need a lower Energy modifier number. Even at .75 it is too high for the weapons to be effective IMO. I believe that a modifier of .50 or .66 should be tested. Missiles normally have to be fired in mass to be effective and (overcome AMS enough to) do significant damage. Presently they run into excessive heat when trying to put enough of them in the air. This is coming from someone that does not normally use missiles.
The Energy Draw bar is replenished too fast. The penalty for exceeding the energy limit is not punitive enough. 1 point of heat for each point of draw over the maximum should be tested.
A proper heat scale with impacts on movement speed, agility, rate of fire and sensors degradation should be added. These things would effect the Mech during high heat prior to shutdown or suicide.
Tomorrow, I will do my own testing of Gauss, ballistics and PPCs on some Kodiaks to see if my impression of them matches what I have been reading in this forum.
Edited by Rampage, 19 August 2016 - 07:33 PM.
#7
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- Survivor
- 121 posts
Member
Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:32 PM
Rampage, on 18 August 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:
First impressions only at this point:
I have used my two 'go to" Hellbringers so far. One is UAC20/4 ERML. The other is 2 x UAC5/4 ERML. Both of them performed much the same as they do on the live server. I did notice the increased cooldown for the weapons. That was especially noticeable when I forgot to equip cooldown modules on the UAC5 build. I only over heated the UAC20 build when I was involved in a close proximity brawl with a Timber Wolf. I fired an Alpha, then fired my 4 ERML followed by a second Alpha. That shut me down but it also killed the TW. Based on this, if anything I think that the penalties might be a bit lenient but I need to do a lot more testing and I need to run some builds that actually boat weapons for big Alpha strikes to see how they perform now.
My first impression is this is better than what we currently have. The additional UI elements help you manage your weapons. It is hard to say how it will affect TTK because you cannot compare 4 v 4 to 12 v 12. The only thing that may contribute to increased TTK is a few less full on Alphas during a given time period because of longer cool down.
More later after more time with the new system and more builds.
ADDED: Tried my Laser vomit Hellbringer 2 x cLPL/4 x cERML. I can Alpha with it once and hit 78% heat on Terra Therma then fire the 4 ERML when they come off cooldown without shutting down. That actually seems about the same as when I tested it after building it on the live client. It may even be slightly better. The biggest concern is the new, slower rate of cooldown which means I have to be more careful and take a bit more time to cooldown once I have pushed the heat scale too high.
Another UPDATE: Today I stayed out of matches and used Testing Grounds to test some builds. I am now of the opinion that both SRMs and LRMs need a lower Energy modifier number. Even at .75 it is too high for the weapons to be effective IMO. I believe that a modifier of .50 or .66 should be tested. Missiles normally have to be fired in mass to be effective and (overcome AMS enough to) do significant damage. Presently they run into excessive heat when trying to put enough of them in the air. This is coming from someone that does not normally use missiles.
The Energy Draw bar is replenished too fast. The penalty for exceeding the energy limit is not punitive enough. 1 point of heat for each point of draw over the maximum should be tested.
A proper heat scale with impacts on movement speed, agility, rate of fire and sensors degradation should be added. These things would effect the Mech during high heat prior to shutdown or suicide.
Tomorrow, I will do my own testing of Gauss, ballistics and PPCs on some Kodiaks to see if my impression of them matches what I have been reading in this forum.
I have used my two 'go to" Hellbringers so far. One is UAC20/4 ERML. The other is 2 x UAC5/4 ERML. Both of them performed much the same as they do on the live server. I did notice the increased cooldown for the weapons. That was especially noticeable when I forgot to equip cooldown modules on the UAC5 build. I only over heated the UAC20 build when I was involved in a close proximity brawl with a Timber Wolf. I fired an Alpha, then fired my 4 ERML followed by a second Alpha. That shut me down but it also killed the TW. Based on this, if anything I think that the penalties might be a bit lenient but I need to do a lot more testing and I need to run some builds that actually boat weapons for big Alpha strikes to see how they perform now.
My first impression is this is better than what we currently have. The additional UI elements help you manage your weapons. It is hard to say how it will affect TTK because you cannot compare 4 v 4 to 12 v 12. The only thing that may contribute to increased TTK is a few less full on Alphas during a given time period because of longer cool down.
More later after more time with the new system and more builds.
ADDED: Tried my Laser vomit Hellbringer 2 x cLPL/4 x cERML. I can Alpha with it once and hit 78% heat on Terra Therma then fire the 4 ERML when they come off cooldown without shutting down. That actually seems about the same as when I tested it after building it on the live client. It may even be slightly better. The biggest concern is the new, slower rate of cooldown which means I have to be more careful and take a bit more time to cooldown once I have pushed the heat scale too high.
Another UPDATE: Today I stayed out of matches and used Testing Grounds to test some builds. I am now of the opinion that both SRMs and LRMs need a lower Energy modifier number. Even at .75 it is too high for the weapons to be effective IMO. I believe that a modifier of .50 or .66 should be tested. Missiles normally have to be fired in mass to be effective and (overcome AMS enough to) do significant damage. Presently they run into excessive heat when trying to put enough of them in the air. This is coming from someone that does not normally use missiles.
The Energy Draw bar is replenished too fast. The penalty for exceeding the energy limit is not punitive enough. 1 point of heat for each point of draw over the maximum should be tested.
A proper heat scale with impacts on movement speed, agility, rate of fire and sensors degradation should be added. These things would effect the Mech during high heat prior to shutdown or suicide.
Tomorrow, I will do my own testing of Gauss, ballistics and PPCs on some Kodiaks to see if my impression of them matches what I have been reading in this forum.
How is the Gauss going on the new update?
#8
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- 313 posts
Member
Posted 20 August 2016 - 08:05 PM
pyrocomp, on 18 August 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:
They say that that was the case somewhere long ago and '3.3gs were felt more natural' (after CS or what?).
Considering that the current games feels a bit unatural due to this so do I disagree with those that gave that feedback. The only problem would be that it would be easy to get airtime from running into bumps in the terrain and I guess that is why they had to do this. But that problem can be fixed with giving the mechs "suspension" type of effect to reduce the impact of bumps. Takes work I guess, but it's something that would be nice to consider for the future.
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