4 replies to this topic

[jweltsch]

Now, straight up, just adding heat scale to mwo will be a massive fail. What so many seem to fail to understand is that in tt heatsinks were designed to work instintaniously and not over time as they do in mwo, meaning that firing 2 medium lasers on a mech with 10 heat sinks should NEVER get you a heat penalty, but the way some want it in mwo it would.

Now here is my idea on how to add heatscale to mwo more true to tt standards using the pts ui and ideas:

Firstly your "energy bar" is equal to your total heat sink count (or doubled if wearing doubles). When you fire, your energy bar is depleted by the heat you used. Once the energy bar hits zero, you begin to fill your heat gage with appropriate penalties. Your energy bar will have a refile rate, also DIRECTLY based on your heat sink counts, but the refile rate will apply to your ENERGY first, but once your energy bar is capped you will begin cooling. My proposition is that your energy bar fills every 5 seconds (exact numbers tbd).

So in example, lets say you are piloting a spider, with 10 single heat sinks, this makes your energy buffer a total of ten. You are equiped with two medium lasers, which you fire off once producing 8 heat which is taken from your energy buffer of 10 leaving you with 2 left. Upon recycle again, you fire producing another 8 heat, but you have regained 6 energy during that period, this leaves you at 0 energy with no heat. Fire again on recycle you have 2 heat, and every time you fire on recycle you generate 2 more heat, until you pause to cool or start experiencing effects. The heat scale will be the 30 as per table top, and might be able to include things like ammo explosions and such.

This gives mechs a proper buffer for heat, and I feel will alow you to see your mech slowly build up heat and feel the effects of that heat build up in your machine, allowing penealties without directly killing off mechs performance right off the bat for just shooting. It is also adjustable, so that if large alphas are the problem you can lower the amount of energy provided, increase fill rates, or w/e you want to adjust the meta of the game.

[Spleenslitta]

I'm always open for new ideas and i have never seen this one. Maybe you should move it to the PTS feedback section of the forum?
Anyways...onwards.

I don't mean to bring you down here OP but there are 3 problems that i see.
1- Missiles and ballistics produce less heat and thus they are less affected by your mechanic unless i'm missunderstanding things.

2- What would be the penalties for having high heat levels?

3- As you know the DHS have massive advantages over SHS. Some say increasing heat level cap is the way to go for SHS.
But there is an alternative.


Let's talk about possible solutions. Remember that this will affect all mechs. So the enemy has the same mechanics you do.

1- Should recoil be introduced to keep ballistics under control? Two possible ways to do it...i could come up with more alternatives if you don't like them.

1A- Fire 2x AC20 and the gyro overloads making it produce heat for example.
But the heat produced by the gyro would be unlikely to be enough to keep Dakka builds under control so screenshake while the gyro recovers would be reasonable.

1B- Mech gets a much reduced top speed and acceleration/deceleration while the gyro recovers.
Screenshake because the gyro is barelly keeping the mech on it's feet.


2- Important fact - This is just an example so shuffle things about as much as you like. Just an example so no need to froth at the mouth guys. XD
Thanks to IaIdabaoth for providing the numbers.
- Speed, acceleration/deceleration, turning, arm, and twist speed are reduced linearly starting at 30% heat, as follows:

30% heat: 100% speed
40% heat: 95% speed
50% heat: 90% speed - Lower sensor range - Longer time to get data on targeted enemy mech - Longer lock on time for missiles.
This gets worse the higher the heat goes.

60% heat: 85% speed - Gyro starts to perform less effectivly. It's less capable of countering recoil and the higher the heat goes the worse it gets. See below for explanation of recoil.

70% heat: 80% speed - BAP's ability to boost sensors is gone. ECM only affects the mech it is mounted on.
- Starts to affect HUD making minimap and compass flicker or they both go totally offline till mech cools down.

80% heat: 75% speed. Maybe concider slight chance of ammo cook off. Chance increases as heat goes up.
90% heat: 70% speed - At 90% heat, you behave as if you were inside an enemy ECM bubble.

100% heat: 65% speed - at 100% and higher heat, in additional to CT internal structure damage.
- Very high chance of an ammunition explosion for non-Gauss ammo.

Should the mech be even more sluggish at high heat levels? I got no idea.

3- Any SHS mounted outside the engine can be directly linked to a weapon.
You can link 1 SHS per crit slot on an energy weapon while missile and ballistic weapons can only mount a single SHS no matter how big they are.

The linked SHS do not dissapear inside the weapon like it does with engines larger than 270.
It stays outside taking up a crit slot in the same body section as the linked weapon.
A linked SHS provides superior cooling for the weapon it is linked to but functions normally to other weapons it isn't linked to.
Thus it's good for builds that use few weapons that produce a lot of heat such as ER PPC's.
But it's inferior to DHS when it comes to cooling a mech stuffed to the brim with lasers.

How much better could a linked SHS when cooling down it's linked weapon be in comparison to a DHS outside the engine?
I got no idea. Math is not my strong point.

Many might look at my solution to problem 2 like this guy did when he saw it.

Tiantara, on 21 August 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

- Yeah, and trying to shoot leg of fast mech to run out, you get even slower to be killed for sure. Really nice. Duels on full speed light vs light doomed, medium mech even more doomed. Overheated heavy, who try to kill light mech become statue and easy target.

But i say light vs light is not doomed. Just keep your mech cool by not firing a bucket load of SPL's constantly and you would be fine.
In the case of a pure energy variant mech just go for a mix of short range weapons and something with a bit more reach.
Being able to seize all opportunities thanks to a flexible weapon loadout will make up for the lack of focus on a single rangeband.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 21 August 2016 - 03:16 AM.

[Gamuray]

jweltsch, on 21 August 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

Firstly your "energy bar" is equal to your total heat sink count (or doubled if wearing doubles). When you fire, your energy bar is depleted by the heat you used. Once the energy bar hits zero, you begin to fill your heat gage with appropriate penalties. Your energy bar will have a refile rate, also DIRECTLY based on your heat sink counts, but the refile rate will apply to your ENERGY first, but once your energy bar is capped you will begin cooling. My proposition is that your energy bar fills every 5 seconds (exact numbers tbd).

I actually very much like this idea. This would be way more straightforward and logical than an energy draw system. ..And it actually gives people reasons to take varied loadouts too. Given... ballistics and gauss wouldn't be hurt much if at all, generally speaking. However those could be rebalanced as need be, as the gauss is already being rebalanced in the PTS.

[Spleenslitta]

Gamuray, on 21 August 2016 - 03:55 AM, said:

I actually very much like this idea. This would be way more straightforward and logical than an energy draw system. ..And it actually gives people reasons to take varied loadouts too. Given... ballistics and gauss wouldn't be hurt much if at all, generally speaking. However those could be rebalanced as need be, as the gauss is already being rebalanced in the PTS.

I came up with a couple of solutions to ballistics and gauss in my post 2#....i'll quote myself to make it easier for you.

Spleenslitta, on 21 August 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

Let's talk about possible solutions. Remember that this will affect all mechs. So the enemy has the same mechanics you do.

1- Should recoil be introduced to keep ballistics under control? Two possible ways to do it...i could come up with more alternatives if you don't like them.

1A- Fire 2x AC20 and the gyro overloads making it produce heat for example.
But the heat produced by the gyro would be unlikely to be enough to keep Dakka builds under control so screenshake while the gyro recovers would be reasonable.

1B- Mech gets a much reduced top speed and acceleration/deceleration while the gyro recovers.
Screenshake because the gyro is barelly keeping the mech on it's feet.

[jweltsch]

Spleenslitta, on 21 August 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

I came up with a couple of solutions to ballistics and gauss in my post 2#....i'll quote myself to make it easier for you.

In reality, ballistics are balanced by their massive weight and ammo concerns, meaning you can take less heat sinks, therefor balanced already, no crazyness needed. As for penatlies I would implement them similar to tt but instead of ammo explosions I would do 10 crit damage to a random sector every 5 seconds on a percent chance, so for example, at 15 heat, 10 percent chance of a random 10 crit damage every 5 seconds (numbers subject to change). This balances heat use rather nicely imo.