35 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

With the upcoming Energy Draw system, i feel that it would be prudent to expand with the Chainfire.
Much of the changes were to improve on the heat system, and with heat-scaling gone, that there is no more penalty if more of the same weapons were fired under 0.50s, as the heat penalty is now calculated via the exceeded energy cost, needless to say; that 0.50s interval of chain-fire isn't relevant anymore because there is no longer heat scaling.

Now, granted that there are those who wanted the option of either firing all weapons in a group at once, or fire them consecutively if they don't feel the need in bursting in a single instance, as well as to manage heat, however that value of 0.50s is just not relevant.

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I suggest that in weapon groups, each weapon, within a group, can have their own chain-fire interval, and sequence number. With better management with Chainfire, one can properly tailor how their staggered fire works, and how they can manage their heat and energy through managing their volleys.

Besides, Macro is an extra complication and has it's own limitations like how would you easily stagger-fire 6 weapons evenly? Just as well without the macro, having to mind one own's trigger-pull would generally produce irregular fire rate, and it's just another thing to worry within a combat scenario that we could do without.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 21 August 2016 - 09:08 PM.

[Tiantara]

- You chain fire groups manually choosing the right time. Chain fire just fire all weapon one after another without making difference - have that arm blocked by something or by teammate. Also - targets moves and you just do damage to everything. Why add heat penalty to already less effective weapon use mode.

[The6thMessenger]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

- You chain fire groups manually choosing the right time. Chain fire just fire all weapon one after another without making difference - have that arm blocked by something or by teammate. Also - targets moves and you just do damage to everything. Why add heat penalty to already less effective weapon use mode.

What? I didn't asked for heat penalty. I said that with the new system eliminating the heat scaling, the 0.50s of the chain fire which were originally intended to prevent ghost-heat is now irrelevant. And so i proposed to make chain fire modular to improve on the system, and help people further control their fire. Trigger control is just another thing to worry in game, eliminating it helps players to focus more on the game.

[Tiantara]

The6thMessenger, on 20 August 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

What? I didn't asked for heat penalty. I said that with the new system eliminating the heat scaling, the 0.50s of the chain fire which were originally intended to prevent ghost-heat is now irrelevant. And so i proposed to make chain fire modular to improve on the system, and help people further control their fire. Trigger control is just another thing to worry in game, eliminating it helps players to focus more on the game.

- Oh. misunderstood... Sorry. On new system that penalty barely feels because of weapon cooldown and fast Energy refills... But, maybe that on my builds only.

[The6thMessenger]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

- Oh. misunderstood... Sorry. On new system that penalty barely feels because of weapon cooldown and fast Energy refills... But, maybe that on my builds only.

AC2 has a lot of heat/sec, imagine that in a cluster. It's an autocannon so it's going to be fired really frequently so yeah it helps chain-firing. Imagine this fielded: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...acd46ec330d277a

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 August 2016 - 10:19 PM.

[Tiantara]

- O! Want to duel with me on PTS? Most of players use alpha-forced builds and less piloting-chainfire which funnier to play.

The6thMessenger, on 20 August 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

AC2 has a lot of heat/sec, imagine that in a cluster. It's an autocannon so it's going to be fired really frequently so yeah it helps chain-firing. Imagine this fielded: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...acd46ec330d277a

- Emm... Pretty fragile on my taste. Few good shot to hands and... puff.

Edited by Tiantara, 20 August 2016 - 10:29 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

- O! Want to duel with me on PTS? Most of players use alpha-forced builds and less piloting-chainfire which funnier to play.

- Emm... Pritty fragile on my taste. Few good shot to hands and... puff.

Nah, sorry, i haven't really tried it, i watched only gameplay videos on YT. It's basic AC2 dakka build on King Crab. It's built to literally spew AC fire, at the shortest time possible. the UAC5 is going to be nerfed badly, so AC2 as it seems is the best choice to raise the most DPS. I used XL engine because the arms are destroyed once either torsos are blown off. Surviving without left or right torso means you're just neutered, and is practically harmless. There is no point continuing the battle, other than for capping purposes, and with only 60 KM/h speed, you're essentially just begging to be killed eventually.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 August 2016 - 10:34 PM.

[Tiantara]

The6thMessenger, on 20 August 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

Nah, sorry, i haven't really tried it, i watched only gameplay videos on YT. It's basic AC2 dakka build on King Crab. It's built to literally spew AC fire, at the shortest time possible. the UAC5 is going to be nerfed badly, so AC2 as it seems is the best choice to raise the most DPS.

- That's sad... in real test much feels differ than on video. Basic dakka build on Crab good - until it lost side torso or get blow into it's hand. I run it before and i can say - if you get caught by small mech with rocket or being "narc"ed or got in situation when before you stand Mauler with 2xAC10+2xAC5 - you doomed.

[The6thMessenger]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 10:35 PM, said:

- That's sad... in real test much feels differ than on video. Basic dakka build on Crab good - until it lost side torso or get blow into it's hand. I run it before and i can say - if you get caught by small mech with rocket or being "narc"ed or got in situation when before you stand Mauler with 2xAC10+2xAC5 - you doomed.

Pretty much most Assaults I've played. That build is for blitzkrieg though, get in get out with it's mobility.

[Tiantara]

The6thMessenger, on 20 August 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

I used XL engine because the arms are destroyed once either torsos are blown off. Surviving without left or right torso means you're just neutered, and is practically harmless. There is no point continuing the battle, other than for capping purposes, and with only 60 KM/h speed, you're essentially just begging to be killed eventually.

- I put STD engine in it and use gauss-laser-missile or LRM+lasers, or dual AC20+lasers, what keep mech still on battle even when side torso ripped off.

[The6thMessenger]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

- I put STD engine in it and use gauss-laser-missile or LRM+lasers, or dual AC20+lasers, what keep mech still on battle even when side torso ripped off.

Yeah sure, but that's not exactly a dakka build.

[Tiantara]

The6thMessenger, on 20 August 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

Yeah sure, but that's not exactly a dakka build.

- Yeah... I'm using mech to make them cold, enough powerful to fight even if it can depends on situation.

[Spleenslitta]

How about something simple? Here is an example.
When in the mechlab you can set weapon group 1 to fire all weapons whenever you use it and group 2 to chainfire.
It would be even better if it was possible to make that adjustment in the field.

[The6thMessenger]

Spleenslitta, on 20 August 2016 - 10:49 PM, said:

How about something simple? Here is an example.
When in the mechlab you can set weapon group 1 to fire all weapons whenever you use it and group 2 to chainfire.
It would be even better if it was possible to make that adjustment in the field.

Yeah, i already do that. But the thing is that, it's the chain fire itself was suggested to be modular. Currently there is 0.5s interval for chain firing. I could simply repeatedly press it, but i don't think that i could keep pressing the button every 0.138s

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 August 2016 - 10:57 PM.

[Tiantara]

Spleenslitta, on 20 August 2016 - 10:49 PM, said:

How about something simple? Here is an example.
When in the mechlab you can set weapon group 1 to fire all weapons whenever you use it and group 2 to chainfire.
It would be even better if it was possible to make that adjustment in the field.

- But you can do that on field by pressing "backspace" and make chainfire in any pre-made groups of weapons. More of that, you can make 6 groups and make button to activate only chosen group (by arrows).

The6thMessenger, on 20 August 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

Yeah, i already do that. But the thing is that, it's the chain fire itself was suggested to be modular. Currently there is 0.5s interval for chain firing. I could simply repeatedly press it, but i don't think that i could keep pressing the button every 0.138s

- Same here - make 3 groups of weapon (left \ right side of mech, long \ short range) and shoot them on your own feel. Right one after another or with delay. Or i don't understand something?

[The6thMessenger]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 11:14 PM, said:

- But you can do that on field by pressing "backspace" and make chainfire in any pre-made groups of weapons. More of that, you can make 6 groups and make button to activate only chosen group (by arrows).
- Same here - make 3 groups of weapon (left \ right side of mech, long \ short range) and shoot them on your own feel. Right one after another or with delay. Or i don't understand something?

Well, ACs usually have very fast recycle rate. Supposed that i grouped 3 AC2s on 2, another on 3. both on chainfire. I still have to press each every 0.245s for optimal DPS. I don't think i could do that.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 21 August 2016 - 12:07 AM.

[L3mming2]

The6thMessenger, on 20 August 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

With the upcoming Energy Draw system, i feel that it would be prudent to expand with the Chainfire.
Much of the changes were to improve on the heat system, and with heat-scaling gone, that there is no more penalty if more of the same weapons were fired under 0.50s, as the heat penalty is now calculated via the exceeded energy cost, needless to say; that 0.50s interval of chain-fire isn't relevant anymore because there is no longer heat scaling.
Now, granted that there are those who wanted the option of either firing all weapons in a group at once, or fire them consecutively if they don't feel the need in bursting in a single instance, as well as to manage heat, however that value of 0.50s is just not relevant.
I suggest that in weapon groups, each weapon, within a group, can have their own chain-fire interval, and sequence number. With better management with Chainfire, one can properly tailor how their staggered fire works, and how they can manage their heat and energy through managing their volleys.

bassicaly lets take the macro's we allredy use and add them to the game... (i am all for btw)

[L3mming2]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

- Oh. misunderstood... Sorry. On new system that penalty barely feels because of weapon cooldown and fast Energy refills... But, maybe that on my builds only.

i have a few builds where my dps is way higher then the ED refil rate...

like a max dps of 27 ore even 34... with the 27 i can fire only for 3s before having to stop to refil ED...

[Tiantara]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 12:38 AM, said:

i have a few builds where my dps is way higher then the ED refil rate...

like a max dps of 27 ore even 34... with the 27 i can fire only for 3s before having to stop to refil ED...

- You know that on PTS you have longer cooldown of each weapon? So that make DPS lower a little. Also - if it possible - break it in two group, Chain fire second, than - when it recharges - fire first, where all weapon is turned on.

Edited by Tiantara, 21 August 2016 - 12:43 AM.

[L3mming2]

Tiantara, on 21 August 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

- You know that on PTS you have longer cooldown of each weapon? So that make DPS lower a little. Also - if it possible - break it in two group, Chain fire second, than - when it recharges - fire first, where all weapon is turned on.

yes i know those values are calculated with the 15% increase in cd and the 10% nerf to cd modules... (and tested on the pts)