38 replies to this topic

[davoodoo]

Nova, pts, i need to take 3.5 second breaks between arms, i might aswell fire isngle arm and add 6 dhs instead of 6 mlas...

Chainfiring 1 is useless as they come off cd before last one is fired.
Same with 2.
You need to chainfire 3 at a time and youll hit penatlies from lack of energy.
Chainfiring 4 shutdowns me after 4 salvos and it would simply be better to reduce amount of lasers to 8 as it takes less than second after 2nd salvo for previous 4 to recharge...

And yes, 315 dmg is terrible, if i need to stare at enemy for so long im dead before i do that dmg, **** might aswell go with 6 mgs...
Its not working, it cant perform its function which is fast strike mech killer... Run or jump in discharge as much as you can in big alpha and run off before enemy retaliates.

And what exactly is ed if not scrapping ghost heat entirely??
You have ghost heat, instead of working on it and trying tweaking it you scrap whole system for ed...

All i see from ed is.
1)Its better to take 30 dmg worth of llas than 30 dmg worth of mlas+llas, thus boating is the king
2)dakka unaffected, actually it allows for higher ac alphas than ghost heat
3)ppfld king
4)only thing it nerfed was mixed laser builds which were low alpha builds heat neutral in tt, also broken as they vent more heat than they can produce resulting in wasted tonnage...
5)it decreased ttk instead of increasing it.
6)brawling isnt worth it when every sniper can do as much dmg as dedicated short range platform.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 August 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

Nova, pts, i need to take 3.5 second breaks between arms, i might aswell fire isngle arm and add 6 dhs instead of 6 mlas...

- Yeap. Maybe so. But we talk about working, not working as effective. There many ways to tweak and many cold maps where result better. Like Manifold of Polar, or Frozen.

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

Chainfiring 1 is useless as they come off cd before last one is fired.
Same with 2.
You need to chainfire 3 at a time and youll hit penatlies from lack of energy.
Chainfiring 4 shutdowns me after 4 salvos and it would simply be better to reduce amount of lasers to 8 as it takes less than second after 2nd salvo for previous 4 to recharge...

And yes, 315 dmg is terrible, if i need to stare at enemy for so long im dead before i do that dmg, **** might aswell go with 6 mgs...
Its not working, it cant perform its function which is fast strike mech killer... Run or jump in discharge as much as you can in big alpha and run off before enemy retaliates.

- 315 damage delivered to different targets without overheating on top sepeed and possibility to make whole armor weak or rip leg\hand - good result. I am talking not about stare to enemy and put chainfire on it. Im about running around fith non-stopping fire to any target you see without a lot delay sometimes make double-cross hit by pressing chain fire from both group. Slow target takes hit from any side. Light target can be pursued under pretty heavy fire without chance to stop, turn around and shoot you (especially if your target same speed as Nova)
Now fast strike mech - light with alpha from 5.5dmg till 20-25. Medium - mech to kill light and rip off parts from assault as it should be.
Besides... I welcome you to PTS to test all possible variants of Nova vs Nova or any else popular mech in different temperature condition map. If you want and ready to do that. Maybe we can find something new about mech.

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

And what exactly is ed if not scrapping ghost heat entirely??
You have ghost heat, instead of working on it and trying tweaking it you scrap whole system for ed...

- ED is system to limit one shot power besides of used for that weapon. No less, no more. You can put anything you want (especially on mech with low hardpoints or with ballistic\energy\rocket only available) but use no more than 20\25\30\35 or hov many would have any of mech class EDpool DMG after pressing "fire" button. Want more - wait 1.5sec (or less... or more, well see after test result which no one want to make with sense) + cooldown of weapon (or only 1.5 cec if you have more firepower and preserved second portion of ready to use guns)

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

All i see from ed is.
1)Its better to take 30 dmg worth of llas than 30 dmg worth of mlas+llas, thus boating is the king
2)dakka unaffected, actually it allows for higher ac alphas than ghost heat
3)ppfld king
4)only thing it nerfed was mixed laser builds which were low alpha builds heat neutral in tt, also broken as they vent more heat than they can produce resulting in wasted tonnage...
5)it decreased ttk instead of increasing it.
6)brawling isnt worth it when every sniper can do as much dmg as dedicated short range platform.

1. Yes. But in mid-short range you loose advantage really fast. I try it already. Especially if your mech slow. On fast - you use XL with risk to be dead faster.
2. Dakka affected. You forced to split damage of take high heat, because it fire faster than ED refills. But chainfire dakka become better and less useless (also make possible to avoid jam factor)
3. Why?
4. Nope... mixed laser builds got less heat if each fired group of laser fits in ED pool. Most of my mix laser mech become better than on Live Servers. Also I can show it in any battle on PTS If you want.
5. Why?
6. Brawling got more sense. In close combat sniper become sluggish and slow. Also lack of pinpoint damage and got more heat under situation with intense fire. Fast enough brawlers or mech under friendly cover now can be used as sniper killer. So - nope. Also, longrange damage now capped few obstacles:
- You have no more than 2 gauss (maybe 3 if someone got really working idea hot to make it risky to use) so no 60 pinpoint damage anymore.
- You got same heat and not all mech have rapid PPC speed. So after rapid fire 3+3 PPC you got much heat. And 2 ppc only 20(30splash) damage. yeah we have PPC+Gauss. But ED limit damage to 30. than... more heat from PPC. Nice.
- Same with LRM, but they already spread damage so, who care.
- Same with laser...
You got better chance to make in need range as whole mech, not a junk piece than before.

As I said above, I'm glad to invite you to test mech... and anyone else for more close result to real battle obstacles.

[davoodoo]

If half weaponry just sits there doing nothing then its broken build.
Its in the name, its broken, it doesnt work...

315dmg over 120 seconds, 2.62 dps
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...059ce8c99d838a7
This thing does more dps than that, nearly twice as much also it wont overheat no matter what and certainly wont run out of ammo...

Ill ask again cause you created strawman...
What happens with ghost heat once ed goes live?? its scrapped and you want to tell me that ed must go live because no scrapping??
Amazing hypocrisy...

1)Actually no, if you avoid going over 30 energy it wont be beneficial to pack more than 60 dmg and again no, lpl have 0.67s burn while medlas got 0.9s also 30 dmg worth of is lpls is only 21 heat, while 30 dmg of medlas produces 24 heat...

2)3 uac10 on live produce 8 ghost heat,while on pts they produce 0 ghost heat, also on pts 4 uac10 produce 5 ghost heat while on live 21.
5 uac5 are absolutely unaffected by either system
2 ac20(not actual dakka but ppfld) produce 11.5 ghost heat on live but only 5 on pts.
Dakka affected?? how?? if something they got buffs...

3)Ghost heat limited ppfld to lower alphas than lasers, now that you cant put more lasers than ppfld youll ofc choose weapon with least face time. Also look at above penatlies...

4)********
lpl= 7 heat 10 dmg 0.7 heat per dmg ratio
medlas= 4 heat 6 dmg 0.66 heat per dmg ratio
Regardless of what you mix here 3 lpls will be most efficient 30 dmg alpha...

5)Look at 2 and 3...

6)Snipers are all about pinpoint dmg and actually they pack more ppfld than typical brawler so they can fire and start spinning giving them advantage in brawl...


Brawl
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4a40807e3fbb861
37% cooling efficiency, 60 firepower
Sniper
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ae93cf1981c196
39% cooling efficiency, 57 firepower...
Difference is minimal while sniper can fight at range...

Oh and dont forget clan lpls which work perfectly as sniper weapons too.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 August 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

If half weaponry just sits there doing nothing then its broken build.
Its in the name, its broken, it doesnt work...

- On some map yes... on some map - nope.

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

315dmg over 120 seconds, 2.62 dps
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...059ce8c99d838a7
This thing does more dps than that, nearly twice as much also it wont overheat no matter what and certainly wont run out of ammo...

- In cost of range, yes. But if you go so close - you definitely dead. Also ammo explodes.
Than better take ShadowCat with nearly 7MG.

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

Ill ask again cause you created strawman...
What happens with ghost heat once ed goes live?? its scrapped and you want to tell me that ed must go live because no scrapping??
Amazing hypocrisy...

- I'm telling that with some tweaks and improvements ED can work. Just in that case we need proper test not talking about changing mechanic into another one or remaster whole balance of the game.
You got tool - Energy Draw. It's in your hand to find proper numbers of pool, heat penalty, number of possible weapons to stuck based on your own observation. To make it better that it can be.
Disagree?

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

1)Actually no, if you avoid going over 30 energy it wont be beneficial to pack more than 60 dmg and again no, lpl have 0.67s burn while medlas got 0.9s also 30 dmg worth of is lpls is only 21 heat, while 30 dmg of medlas produces 24 heat...

2)3 uac10 on live produce 8 ghost heat,while on pts they produce 0 ghost heat, also on pts 4 uac10 produce 5 ghost heat while on live 21.
5 uac5 are absolutely unaffected by either system
2 ac20(not actual dakka but ppfld) produce 11.5 ghost heat on live but only 5 on pts.
Dakka affected?? how?? if something they got buffs...

3)Ghost heat limited ppfld to lower alphas than lasers, now that you cant put more lasers than ppfld youll ofc choose weapon with least face time. Also look at above penatlies...

4)********
lpl= 7 heat 10 dmg 0.7 heat per dmg ratio
medlas= 4 heat 6 dmg 0.66 heat per dmg ratio
Regardless of what you mix here 3 lpls will be most efficient 30 dmg alpha...

5)Look at 2 and 3...

6)Snipers are all about pinpoint dmg and actually they pack more ppfld than typical brawler so they can fire and start spinning giving them advantage in brawl...

1. Actually yes. I crop my firepower into two parts and can deliver one after another in 1-1.5 sec delay. Also - LPL in some ranges work worse than another and even with less heat, have more recharge time.
2. Dakka affected because of no delay between shot after shot so you got more heat in time when your ED pool depleted and stay like that because of rapid fire. After first burst - you got zero ED, second you du - got penalty because you still have no ED. Fire further - got heat increased rapidly. Do you even test it in rapidfire (UAC)? And if you do - how on what mech and on what map you do that. I got overheat quick even on BlackJack double AC2. Triple C-UAC2 make mech burn after third burst.
3. Okay okay... Mauler. 2xAC10 + 2XAC5 (modules for cooldown and lowered quirsk for it too) Alpha exact 30. In Live i got pretty overheat. In PTS overheat lower. But in real battle its only 30 damage at punch. Not 40, not 50, not 60. Builds like that got less heat when builds with 40-60 alpha at one got more heat and forced to split it.
4. I check that combination. In right battle without focused fire from 3 enemy - you can easy bring dmg faster with ML than with LPL. But here matter of skill too.
5. yeap.
6. maybe I have not super in sniping opponents but I can take in shoulder 1-2 alpha of 30 to come closer and bring vengeance. 9Laser not so long and have cooldown) In same time got 4xgauss shot from nowhere In live server much worse.

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

Brawl
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4a40807e3fbb861
37% cooling efficiency, 60 firepower
Sniper
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ae93cf1981c196
39% cooling efficiency, 57 firepower...
Difference is minimal while sniper can fight at range...

Oh and dont forget clan lpls which work perfectly as sniper weapons too.

- As brawl King Crab not best choice... And I have that one. In small map - it pretty deadly. In GH that build become hot quick, on PTS, it works better. Also - Sniper nice but when some medium-light come into play - that mech dead for sure.
I Remake that build to 2xGauss+3ML+3SSRM2 to make it better if some light come to my under ecm. Later I take off 1t of ammo and 0.5 armor to fit BAP.

[davoodoo]

I can imagine clan invasion going well when they deployed mech which can use its weaponry only on coldest planets... No ******* wonder they lost on tukkayid when in terra like enviroment it just doesnt work...

If im within 270m im already within range of everything they can throw at me, also currently more popular 12 erspl nova got 165 range... Thats how ******* effective is what you claim is working, that 6 mg build seems like a good alternative...

Tweak and improve gh instead as it already works better than ed...

1. No, 3lpl>6mlas in every department but tonnage but then assaults and heavies can spare tonnage for them...
2.5 uac5, fire 25 energy used 5/30, 1s, 25/30 doubletap while lasers burn for over a second or just say **** it, 30% extra heat makes no difference as anything dies before ill overheat with those anyway... 2 uac10,or 4uac5 can doubletap within 0.5s without any penatly and even 3 uac10 will get lesser penatly...
You would need 16 ac2 to trigger ed ghsot heat btw...
3. Mauler in live runs with 5 ac5, 25 alpha and its ******* deadly, you chosen worst ******* example you could.

Atm you got things like awesome with 4 ppc which runs pretty cool
https://youtu.be/Dh1Blq-ZYDc
160 dmg before shutting down...
4. Lpl got 3.92 cooldown, medlas 3.9. 0.02s is faster than you can react... Again theres no situation when 30 dmg of medlas is superior to 30 dmg of lpls.
6. you cant fire 4 gauss at once in live... you can fire 2 at once...

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

I can imagine clan invasion going well when they deployed mech which can use its weaponry only on coldest planets... No ******* wonder they lost on tukkayid when in terra like enviroment it just doesnt work...

- Yeap. That's why so many mech variants we have... Some ballistic, some laser...
I want play MW3 now again... where I put that old dusty CD...

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

If im within 270m im already within range of everything they can throw at me, also currently more popular 12 erspl nova got 165 range... Thats how ******* effective is what you claim is working, that 6 mg build seems like a good alternative...

- But 2 lucky shots and you dead... Ammo explosion. But it would be interesting to test. Want do that sometime?

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

Tweak and improve gh instead as it already works better than ed...

- It seems that GH tweakability is all gone and deplete any resources. many single class weapon mech become crap because of GH. Need something new and ED can be not a bad alternative.
I have advice to change ED to ColdPool. You got cold points and use them when weapon heat you. If you deplete all - you got penalty heat, if not - normal weapon heat. When all ColdPool depleted it start regen after last gun stops fire using power from heatsinks. More of them - little faster. Non of them - in normal speed. But comparing to ED that logical mechanic can do greater impact to pilots and do much more whining...
What good in it? Ballistic mech load more ammo than heatsink so get lower rate of ColdPool refill. Energy place more heatsink to speed up it a little. Not bad on paper, pretty bad when it comes to action.

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

1. No, 3lpl>6mlas in every department but tonnage but then assaults and heavies can spare tonnage for them...
2.5 uac5, fire 25 energy used 5/30, 1s, 25/30 doubletap while lasers burn for over a second or just say **** it, 30% extra heat makes no difference as anything dies before ill overheat with those anyway... 2 uac10,or 4uac5 can doubletap within 0.5s without any penatly and even 3 uac10 will get lesser penatly...
You would need 16 ac2 to trigger ed ghsot heat btw...
3. Mauler in live runs with 5 ac5, 25 alpha and its ******* deadly, you chosen worst ******* example you could.

Atm you got things like awesome with 4 ppc which runs pretty cool
https://youtu.be/Dh1Blq-ZYDc
160 dmg before shutting down...
4. Lpl got 3.92 cooldown, medlas 3.9. 0.02s is faster than you can react... Again theres no situation when 30 dmg of medlas is superior to 30 dmg of lpls.
6. you cant fire 4 gauss at once in live... you can fire 2 at once...

1. yeah, but still LPL charges slower than ML
2. Just take BlackJack with 2 AC2 and try to fire. You got heat fast enough to change to chainfire. Same with all other AC-UAC. Still, i don't know which mech and on what map you try. One map can show 25% heat, another all 50%
3. A choose mauler MAL-1P on which i have much damage in any FW map or quick game. And yeah in video second shot go not after ED refills but after some heat go down. Add more penalty heat - and... 3 alpha become 2 or 1.5 Thats the idea. Better than GH. Or add more time to ED refill rate. With rate = not 1.5 second but... 3 or 3.5 - all that builds become less effective, without calculation of GH or eapon tweaking or quirks. few position to change and you got another result. Also that the point of test. See how much limit you can have or what happens if refill got slower,
4. I cane name 2 situation.
- When 1 LPL got killed by crit chance. You lost 1\3 of whole your firepower. In same time you have 6ML and loosein one of them not so tragic.
- When you got heat. In 6ML you can switch to fast chainfire and do better result. No?
5. Yeah? Didn't know. Long time don't use more than 2 gauss because of explosion chance and instant death with XL engine.

[davoodoo]

Each and every clan mech got case in each and every part, ammo can explode, ill lose 1 mg...

1. medlas fires, 0.9s burn then 3s cooldown, lpl fires 0.67 burn, 3.25 cooldown.total 3.9 vs 3.92...
2. Because ac2 are terrible both here and in tt, but they are not affected by either ed nor gh and it is what i said about them...
3.In video ive given ppc fires as soon as they went off cooldoiwn... ed regen is irrelevant...
4. So rare that it doesnt offset range and burn time advantage, also even atlas arm got 34 structure, st 42, if any weapon gets critted you would lose it soon enough even with ed... Also single crit from lpl will destroy a weapon, 2 crits from medlas got small chance.
You can chainfire 3 lpl too.
5. big news when kodiak came out and ppl made 4 guass build only to find out you can only fire 2 at a time... btw standard engine kodiak. and 20 dmg explosion from gauss is hardly end all for assault mech.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 August 2016 - 08:55 AM.

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Each and every clan mech got case in each and every part, ammo can explode, ill lose 1 mg...

1. medlas fires, 0.9s burn then 3s cooldown, lpl fires 0.67 burn, 3.25 cooldown.total 3.9 vs 3.92...
2. Because ac2 are terrible both here and in tt, but they are not affected by either ed nor gh and it is what i said about them...
3.In video ive given ppc fires as soon as they went off cooldoiwn... ed regen is irrelevant...
4. So rare that it doesnt offset range and burn time advantage, also even atlas arm got 34 structure, st 42, if any weapon gets critted you would lose it soon enough even with ed... Also single crit from lpl will destroy a weapon, 2 crits from medlas got small chance.
You can chainfire 3 lpl too.
5. big news when kodiak came out and ppl made 4 guass build only to find out you can only fire 2 at a time... btw standard engine kodiak. and 20 dmg explosion from gauss is hardly end all for assault mech.

- As I can see, the c.a.s.e. not always work as it should. Ir it have some nuances. Like - when structure and armor have major damage, about more than 56%, near components got massive impact from ammo explosion. Also, many times i loose all what was installed within mech part with case. Yeah - outside of case you have no or less damage, but inside... I dunno. In testing ground we have no clan mech to test on them crit-chances. In Private lobby - need piople who want to be a target for test and who comment any changes in his mech after hit. I tried to do such research but still got not enough data to say about safety of c.a.s.e.

1. Hm... Still 1 LPL easyer to destroy than half of ML at once.
2. Yeah... On PTS it become a little better but still yeah.
3. Wait... PPC. But they have minimum range? So if any light go fast near that mech with some MG. laser or missiles... he doomed? Right?
4. But ponpoint of 4-6ML got higher chance? Or not?
5. Oh... I just prefer XL on it and builds like - 4C-ERML+2xLB20-X \ UAC20+2xC-ERPPC \ UAC20+4SSRM6... Placing gauss in them from start was a not good idea, because of 3rd LRM hit blow gauss off. But long time ago I use Atlas Gauss with 3ERLL... need to try it again.

[Lostdragon]

Tiantara, on 23 August 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

- As I can see, the c.a.s.e. not always work as it should. Ir it have some nuances. Like - when structure and armor have major damage, about more than 56%, near components got massive impact from ammo explosion. Also, many times i loose all what was installed within mech part with case. Yeah - outside of case you have no or less damage, but inside... I dunno. In testing ground we have no clan mech to test on them crit-chances. In Private lobby - need piople who want to be a target for test and who comment any changes in his mech after hit. I tried to do such research but still got not enough data to say about safety of c.a.s.e.

Case isn't to protect equipment installed in the same component from ammo explosions, it is to protect the rest of the mech. For example, if you put it in a side torso of a STD engine mech and the ammo in that torso blows up you will lose the torso and arm attached to it but case prevents the damage transfer that would normall go to the CT and will thus keep you in the fight. Case is useless in the side torsos of IS mechs with XL engines because you lose 3 engine crits when the torso blows and that kills you regardless.

Edited by Lostdragon, 23 August 2016 - 10:15 AM.

[davoodoo]

Tiantara, on 23 August 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

- As I can see, the c.a.s.e. not always work as it should. Ir it have some nuances. Like - when structure and armor have major damage, about more than 56%, near components got massive impact from ammo explosion. Also, many times i loose all what was installed within mech part with case. Yeah - outside of case you have no or less damage, but inside... I dunno. In testing ground we have no clan mech to test on them crit-chances. In Private lobby - need piople who want to be a target for test and who comment any changes in his mech after hit. I tried to do such research but still got not enough data to say about safety of c.a.s.e.

1. Hm... Still 1 LPL easyer to destroy than half of ML at once.
2. Yeah... On PTS it become a little better but still yeah.
3. Wait... PPC. But they have minimum range? So if any light go fast near that mech with some MG. laser or missiles... he doomed? Right?
4. But ponpoint of 4-6ML got higher chance? Or not?
5. Oh... I just prefer XL on it and builds like - 4C-ERML+2xLB20-X \ UAC20+2xC-ERPPC \ UAC20+4SSRM6... Placing gauss in them from start was a not good idea, because of 3rd LRM hit blow gauss off. But long time ago I use Atlas Gauss with 3ERLL... need to try it again.

like mentioned above, case prevents explosion from spreading to other parts, if ammo in arm explodes ill lose that arm and nothing else, if 2000 of mg ammo exploded without case i would lose my mech...

1. Only on assaults and chance can be manipulated and go as low as 1 in 36 for medlas... considering that it takes 2 alphas to blow 100 tonner it isnt any help...

2.No it didnt, pts got 0 impact on ac2 as ac2 was never part of gh to begin with...

3. Assuming rest of the team will sit by and allow it to die... This one is indeed dedicaded long range platform which puts good dents on anything between 90 and 540m.

4.no they dont, first you need to roll for crit, you got 25% chance for 1 crit, 14% chance for 2 crits and 3% chance for 3 crits. Then item is rolled, each slot got 1/12 chance unless it cant be critted(empty or built in parts like actuators) in which case it is rerolled. Each crit deals amount of dmg your weapon does to equipment, for mlas it will be 25% for 6, 14% for 12 and 3% for 18 dmg. So each medlas got 17% chance of destroying 1 item in part it fires and 2/12 chance it will be lpl considering all 12 slots are filled. each lpl however got 42% chance of destroying piece of equipment and 1/12 chance fo destroying specific slot.
tldr; few high damage sources are better at critcs than many low dmg ones(thats why lbx is total garbage at everything)

[Tiantara]

Lostdragon, on 23 August 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

Case isn't to protect equipment installed in the same component from ammo explosions, it is to protect the rest of the mech. For example, if you put it in a side torso of a STD engine mech and the ammo in that torso blows up you will lose the torso and arm attached to it but case prevents the damage transfer that would normall go to the CT and will thus keep you in the fight. Case is useless in the side torsos of IS mechs with XL engines because you lose 3 engine crits when the torso blows and that kills you regardless.

- Aha!! Just like I thought. C.a.s.e. useless in case of protection weapon from ammo in same place. That make mech even more fragile. Especially Clan mech ballistic build and mix energy builds. So, than all ammo can do chain explosion? If in same place loaded more than 1t of it? That make some weapon deadly dangerous... like LBX, SSRM, Gauss.

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

like mentioned above, case prevents explosion from spreading to other parts, if ammo in arm explodes ill lose that arm and nothing else, if 2000 of mg ammo exploded without case i would lose my mech...

1. Only on assaults and chance can be manipulated and go as low as 1 in 36 for medlas... considering that it takes 2 alphas to blow 100 tonner it isnt any help...

2.No it didnt, pts got 0 impact on ac2 as ac2 was never part of gh to begin with...

3. Assuming rest of the team will sit by and allow it to die... This one is indeed dedicaded long range platform which puts good dents on anything between 90 and 540m.

4.no they dont, first you need to roll for crit, you got 25% chance for 1 crit, 14% chance for 2 crits and 3% chance for 3 crits. Then item is rolled, each slot got 1/12 chance unless it cant be critted(empty or built in parts like actuators) in which case it is rerolled. Each crit deals amount of dmg your weapon does to equipment, for mlas it will be 25% for 6, 14% for 12 and 3% for 18 dmg. So each medlas got 17% chance of destroying 1 item in part it fires and 2/12 chance it will be lpl considering all 12 slots are filled. each lpl however got 42% chance of destroying piece of equipment and 1/12 chance fo destroying specific slot.
tldr; few high damage sources are better at critcs than many low dmg ones(thats why lbx is total garbage at everything)

- I see...

1. Hm... In test and real battle I got another result.
2. So. 2xAC2, IS mech. Map - Caustic. Well, yes. each 3rd shot rise heat by 1-2% max. But with 4MPL alpha under fire from 2xAC2, heat go up faster, and go down slower.
3. Most of time. Quick game with nascar = in 89% of situation.
4. Ow, that seems more complex and bring more gamble when crit calculating in heat of battle.
5. I don't think that LBX garbage. When target have no armor it deals more impact on it and kills faster. Like example - not for DPS, but for kill - 4C-ERML+2xLB20-X works like a charm without long facing to target.

[Lostdragon]

Tiantara, on 23 August 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

- Aha!! Just like I thought. C.a.s.e. useless in case of protection weapon from ammo in same place. That make mech even more fragile. Especially Clan mech ballistic build and mix energy builds. So, than all ammo can do chain explosion? If in same place loaded more than 1t of it? That make some weapon deadly dangerous... like LBX, SSRM, Gauss.

Ammo explosions are actually relatively rare, there is only a 10% chance for ammo to explode if it gets crit. Multiple stacks of ammo can cook each other off if one blows, but usually one is enough to destroy a whole section unless it is almost depleted. Gauss ammo is nonvolatile and won't explode, so you can crit pad with it to protect other gear.

[Tiantara]

- With targeting comp - that happens more often. I place all ammo there, where no weapon or something vital... But gauss ammo really cool.

[davoodoo]

Tiantara, on 23 August 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

- I see...

1. Hm... In test and real battle I got another result.
2. So. 2xAC2, IS mech. Map - Caustic. Well, yes. each 3rd shot rise heat by 1-2% max. But with 4MPL alpha under fire from 2xAC2, heat go up faster, and go down slower.
3. Most of time. Quick game with nascar = in 89% of situation.
4. Ow, that seems more complex and bring more gamble when crit calculating in heat of battle.
5. I don't think that LBX garbage. When target have no armor it deals more impact on it and kills faster. Like example - not for DPS, but for kill - 4C-ERML+2xLB20-X works like a charm without long facing to target.

1, what tests on what where how. 34 structure on arm, 42 on side torso of atlas before quirks, 2 alphas will destroy structure of either one, anything ligther than 95 tonner can have arm destroyed with single alpha on ed.
2.http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment#weapon_heatscale
ac2, 0 penatlies other than general ghost heat from many weapons represented by numbers on the top.
3. you shouldnt nascar and theres really nothing more to say...
4. Its actually pretty simple, you fire and rng happens, dont count on it and youll be fine.
5. no crits dont deal any dmg to strcuture, crits deal dmg to equipment only, also did you know that mgs deal 1350% crit dmg?? yet you dont see structure dying in seconds to mg fire.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 August 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[ButteryD]

Here's the problem that I have with the energy draw system... it defies logic. For instance, a 25 ton mech with a standard 150 engine should not have the exact same amount of potential energy and regeneration as a Kodiak with an xl400. I'm not saying that mech tonage should have a positive effect on the energy system, but I am saying that larger engines should have a higher capacity for energy and generate it more quickly than smaller engines. After all, the engine is a freaking fussion reactor, the bigger the better. Another thing, I noticed that only weapons are causing energy drain, not equipment. Certain sensors like the beagle and clan active probes and the ECM units should have an energy penalty. While equipment like MASC, should grant a temporary bonus to energy generation, because if I understand it right, it basically overclocks the engine and overrides the limiters in the legs. Also clan targeting computers should decrease the amount of energy that weapons drain by a small margin. Just my take, it sounds like a good way to put a limit on the devastation that light mechs can do with their hilariously overpowered small and medium lasers.

[davoodoo]

You assume that reactor works at maximum capacity but then you should have higher energy(or at least regen) if you dont use it for movement.

Also remember that when reactor is used it generates heat, like when moving and charging ppc capacitor(futuretech) generates heat too which proves that heat is byproduct of engine working.

Thus it makes no ******* sense that you even have energy bar and heat at the same time...

Ofc you can mention gauss, but gauss requires less energy than small laser as it can be used with ice engine while small laser requires additional capacitor...

Also theres handheld weapons which arent linked with mech in any way yet can fire their weaponry without engine as long as they have enough heat sinks to negate heat from energy weapon(nothing required for ballistics)

Also all engines of the same category are same size , all std take 6 slots, all is xl take 12 slots and so on. So it aint the bigger the better.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 August 2016 - 01:06 PM.

[Tiantara]

ButteryD, on 23 August 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

Just my take, it sounds like a good way to put a limit on the devastation that light mechs can do with their hilariously overpowered small and medium lasers.

- Here is some problems that:
1. Many of light mech on top speed have 5.5-18 alpha. Not a big deal to handle it.
2. Many of clan light have enormous firepower but really bad heat management.
3. Overpowered small and medium laser (especially seconds) heat light mech as hell even with all heatsinks or force to take off some laser. Also heat dissipation on light mech extremely slow. They already limited by heat. Just try half of them and you see. Don't judge by few models with lucky heat and much slots for weapon. For example - Locust with 5-6ML go to overheat after second alpha and turns off. In portioned alpha he can run longer... but each alpha become only 10-15 dmg...

The problem of Heavy and Assault mech in pilot who don't want play as team and cower each other or take off one big gun and place some anti-light mech weapon. Just 2xSSRM2 or 2xC-SSRM4 with beagle can make light mech live as hell. Just few medium mech for guard with same weapon of cluster gun, or precise laser can cut light mech leg in seconds. Most of heavy and assault who died from 1-3 light... is abandoned by team mech. One of them who cant run with all team on same speed.

[davoodoo]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3446f427f8ff677
30
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dcd2ab2c551ecd3
30
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...82f6f29b55492d9
20
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2996b9fdcf91e26
30
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3d0127d2c34a152
38
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dda3b7f99fdd629
30
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c134500a5fc41e4
39
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5b9d6a33a121a04
37
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4ff82dcbdd78a88
34
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e842c73b082406b
33, 39% efficiency
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7138862f528e988
36, 35% efficiency
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...28bfbaed3f136ef
48, 65% efficiency
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aecd07533e08e25
48, 41% efficiency
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...518cf39c5d5148b
36, 41 % efficiency

Tiantara, on 23 August 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

1. Many of light mech on top speed have 5.5-18 alpha. Not a big deal to handle it.

Except all of the above and more than 2 times more which i havent posted...

I dont think theres light mech under 20 alpha except for maybe 1e spider which gets 50% cooldown quirk.

Tiantara, on 23 August 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

2. Many of clan light have enormous firepower but really bad heat management.

Except all of the above...
i run my assaults hotter.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 August 2016 - 01:48 PM.